Doug C

maxg, Is that your sub between the TV and your left speaker? Not much wall behind it or to the left side to reinforce the sub output evenly? Just for comparison purposes, I sugesst you try it tucked tight into the corner to the right of your right speaker. With low frequencies it won't matter if the right speaker seems to be blocking the front of it. In my system the sub is slam tight in the front left corner. This corner shares the two longest walls in my room giving the maximum reinforcement across all frequencies. This position also produces the most consistent bass levels throughout the room. From my listening position the front of the sub is completely obstructed by my left main but the bass is still great. Doug C

Sounds like your sub has a variable phase knob? Suggest you play the 63hz tone and have someone slowly rotate the phase knob from 0 to 180 as you monitor the Db's. By doing this you should be able to get the peak down a bit. If you flaten the peak completely then you will probably find the problem has shifted to a different frequency, so split the difference. Was also wondering where your sub is positioned in the room? Sub position has a lot to do with what frequencies are reinforced and by how much. I have used a Rane Parametric equalizer before and they are not difficult to use and let you dial right into the offending frequency range. I found however that the bass was tighter (more natural) without the EQ in the signal path. Doug C

maxg, Try the speaker level connection to the sub, If that solves the problem then it confirms a problem with the Preamp driving the amp and sub at line level at the same time. Doug C

Connecting your sub via the Speaker Level inputs (Speaker Cables) will draw virtually no power from the amp since the sub has it's own volume control (gain) and amp. I'm connected in this fashion using a 2-watt tube amp and no problems. I always run my mains full range for best sound quality. Going through the sub crossover and then to the mains is just another set of electronics (and more cable) to do bad things to the sound. Looking at your SLP readings, this is not out of line from my experience. I have room induced dips and peaks that I smooth out (but never get completely rid of) the best I can with a combination of sub placement and phase setting. I have a particularly nasty room induced peak in a narrow band around 36hz. With sub placement and phase setting I'm able to minimize it to about a +10db peak. I'm with you, can't understand how the sub could affect the pre-amp if it's using a completely different power circuit? Doug C

I drive a pair of RF-7's with a 2-watt amp and listen to a lot of Rock at high volumes and never get past 80% on the volume pot at the amp (I do not use a preamp). I see a lot of posts claiming the RF-7's are power hungry and require at least 200 watts? Doug C

I just checked the Radio Shack website for #33-4050 7-Range Analog Display Sound Level Meter. When I selected order it says they have them in stock? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&kw=sound+meter&parentPage=search Doug C.

I went from RF5's to RF7's a couple years ago and this was a big step up in detail. The 7's will however immediately reveal any weakness in your source. In my case the 7's had more glare in the high end which was just a faithful reproduction of the weakness in my CD player output. I upgraded my digital front end to a Monarchy 24/96 upsampler followed by a Bel Canto DAC-2. The increased soundstage size, detail and smoothness on the high and low end were hard to believe. The imaging is so good I find I typically set the volume about 20% less compared to my setup prior to the DAC upgrade. Music is just a lot more enveloping and satisfying with a good DAC. These speakers virtually disapear. I can sit directly in front of the left or right speaker and still have great center imaging. This was not the case prior to the digital front end upgrade. I've tried a bunch of preamps over the years and all of them seem to sacrifice a tad in the open soundstage department. My 2 Watt Decware amp has a volume control so I run with no preamp for best sound quality. My listening room is 13' x 21' with a large opening into the same sized kitchen / dinning area and I never lack for volume. Primary listening is Rock at high levels. The Decware amp mates well with low impediance speakers and has no problem driving the RF7's to high volumes and this is running the RF7's full range from my amp. Again I find crossovers upstream of the amp tend to colapse the soundstage somewhat so I avoid them. My speakers are positioned to privide best soundstage and imaging which means they are out from the front wall and corners. Since this offers little corner reinforcement for the bass output from the 7's, low frequency output begins to drop off below 70hz. I have my corner placed 18" velodyne sub connected via speaker level connections directly from the amp output binding posts. This is the best bass of any of my systems over the past 30 years, it integrates perfectly. If you want realistic kick drum slam then I don't think you can beat a propely placed quality sub. A sub with a volume remote is ideal since recordings can vary significantly as far as the recorded level of low frequencies. For about 60% of my CD collection my sub volume is perfect. On the other 40% the recorded low frequency levels are a little low (presentation is slightly thin) or high (presentation is slightly muddy). Having the ability to tweak the sub volume a notch or two from your listening position is handy. I have a number of quality amps and preamps laying around and swap things out from time to time. It's usually only a day or two before I'm back to the simplest setup with the fewest components in the chain. From a clarity and openess standpoint none of the SS amps I've tried have been able to beat the little Decware amp. The Decware amp and RF7's just seem to be a perfect match. Just my 2 cents, Doug

Just wanted to get some current feedback from those that may be using the Bel Canto DAC-2, Benchmark DAC-1 or Apogee Mini-DAC outboard D/A converters. I've been using the Bel Canto DAC-2 for a couple of years with a Phillips 963SA DVD/SACD player and like the Bel Canto a lot. About 6-months ago I added a Monarchy 24/96 upsampler between the DVD player and DAC and this was a noticable improvement in soundstage size and extension of the extreme highs and lows. I've been considering trying the Benchmark or Apogee in part because they have volume controls and allow operation without a pre-amp. I assume both volume controls are analog? Any differences between the quality of either volume control? Also was wondering how Apogee users are connecting the analog output of the DAC to unbalanced RCA inputs on their preamps or amps? Are you using the 1/8" mini-jack as the output or XLR to RCA cables since this unit does not have unbalanced RCA outs? Just seems to me the 1/8" mini-jack output is kind of cheesy? On the other hand I've read many different views on the sonics of XLR to RCA cables? Thanks in advance for responses. Doug C

I can only speak based on my experience in my listening room. Over the years I have experimented extensively with multiple subs. Have run all combinations of my Twin SVS and 18" Velodyne. One sub is certainly much easier to calibrate and phase to the mains as opposed to multiple subs located in different areas of the room. Eventually I always end up going back to just the 18" Velodyne in the same corner for best low frequency reproduction. Based on this experience I would opt for a single higher quality sub. Results may differ in a different room. Doug C

I run my RF-7's with a 2 watt/channel Decware Zen Select tube amp. When I compare the Decware with my Musical Fidelity A3CR 120 watt/channel SS amp there is no contest, low power tube wins hands down. The RF series is a great speaker but it's high efficency allows you the option to use a multitude of low power amps that put out just a few high quality watts. Doug C

I made a big mistake when I ordered a Bel Canto DAC2 from Audio-Advisor. Was just curious and was sure that at the relatively high price I would be returning it. Well it sounded much better than the DAC's in my Marantz CD-17 or my B&K Reference 30 preamp. Also found that the sound from the DAC2 was identical when hooked up to my Marantz CD player or my very average DVD player. Improvements included: wider & deeper soundstage, more precise location of vocals & instruments, improved microdynamics, and much better punch and definition of low frequency bass notes. After listening to the DAC2 for about 2-weeks I removed it from my system thinking it was very nice but too expensive. I didn't make it a day before putting the DAC2 back into my system. Needless to say I still have it. I might have been able to find a DAC with equal performance for half the price? But just didn't want to screw around testing a bunch of units when I already had one I loved. Doug C

Vladi, The Decware Zen amp ($499.00 factory direct new)is the perfect match for the RF3's and believe me will play plenty loud. It's not the most beautiful amp but when teamed up with the RF3 plays beautiful music. Decware offers a 30-day money back guarantee so nothing to loose. Replacement tubes are relatively cheap, unit is self biasing, simple and Decware service is great. I've had the Zen for a year now and it's just great with the RF3's, 5's and 7's. Check out their site. I can not say enough good things about this amp. http://www.decware.com/zpage1.htm Doug C

On the question of 1 sub or 2, I find two smaller subs to be better than one big one. In other words I would opt for two good $750 subs over one big $1,500 sub. All rooms are different and so critical to the quality of bass you will achieve. Just about any big sub in any room will get boomy if you turn the volume up high enough. If you have a good quality sub the boomy tendency will be created by room induced low frequency peaks and nulls and not the sub itself. I find two subs placed separately helps to smooth out frequency response (minimize room induced peaks & nulls) in many rooms. The net result for me is that I am able to pump more bass energy into the room with less room induced boom. More natural sounding smooth bass. Smaller subs are generally easier to place. My 18" Velodyne is a monster. I find the SVS subs very easy to move and place due to their relatively small footprint. Most active subs like the SVS active line have all the controls built in. I would not buy a sub without a variable phase control. The 0-180 degree phase toggle switch provided on many subs just does not cut it. An example: If I set the phase on my two SVS to 180 degrees the subs and main speakers cancel each other over a broad frequency range (bad). If I set the sub phase to 0 degrees there is still quiet a bit of cancelation in the 90-100 Hz range (about 10 Db down from average). If I set the phase to about 30 degrees (variable phase control) SPL in the 90-100 Hz range is only down about 3 Db (a big improvement). Smooth room response is kind of like a smooth highway. If the road is smooth you can pour the power to it and go fast with a smooth ride. If you have peaks & dips the road will be bumpy (in the case of room response Boomy) as hell and you have to let off the gas. In either case the result will not be as satisfying. Doug C

Someone mentioned a concern about the horn of the Reference speakers being directional? I had RF-5's and now RF-7's and they produce a wide and deep sound stage. They completely disappear. On most well recorded material it is not obvious that music is coming directly from the speaker itself. The RF-7's replaced my Paradigm Studio 100's. The 100's are a great speaker but now sound flat to me after having the Klipsch. In fact I'm trading in my 100's for the RC7 and RS7 speakers to go with my RF-7's. I'm driving the RF-7's with a 2-watt Decware tube amp and love it. I listen to lots of loud Rock and this combo really puts out. I agree with the earlier comment about power. In reality I think 10-watts will send you running for cover. The Reference series really sounds great with tube amps provided you have a decent source. Doug C

I'm using a Rane PE-17 (5-channel) parametric EQ. Purchased this through the SVS website. This is a nice unit but the BFD equipment mentioned sound good (no personal experience with BFD). In my case I'm only equalizing the sub (20-80hz) so 5-channels is a bit of overkill. I use 3-channels to help correct room problems. For set-up I use the trusty Radio Shack SPL meter, the test tone generator in my B&K preamp (provides tones in 2hz increments) and a spreadsheet to record SPL from 20 to 110hz in 2hz increments. First turn sub OFF and record SPL of test tones through the entire range (20-110 hz) for your main speakers. This will give you a good idea of where your mains start to drop-off and where your crossover should be set. You will also see peaks & dips in low frequency output from the mains. Next turn on the sub with mains and play a test tone around the crossover setpoint and set sub phase to achieve highest bass output (this assures proper phase of sub with mains). Next record SPL of test tones through the entire range (20-110 hz)with sub & mains playing and record dB level for each tone. This will give you an Idea of frequency response peaks & valleys and a starting point for setting the EQ. Doug C

Some options to consider: I've read good things about this sub kit that is easy to assemble. Cabinet is shipped assembled so you really just installing the components. http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?st=0&st2=0&st3=0&DID=7&Product_ID=15171&DS_ID=3 The Velodyne CHT-10 really got a good review in the February issue of Home Theater magizine. I own SVS & Velodyne and like both. The SVS having a circular footprint is easier to place (fits better in more places) and much easier to move around (just tilt & roll). The SVS powered subs also have all the necessary controls you would ever need. Getting huge concert type bass on music is difficult to reproduce in any room with dimensions less than 30-40 feet due to low frequency standing wave issues. Quality of bass will depend alot on how your room interacts with the sub. Doug C

I've yet to hear a pair of Klipsch Reference series speakers sound anywhere near as good as they sound in my house, properly placed. Room acustics have such a big impact. Trying to compare different speakers in different listening environments (dealer showrooms) is almost impossible. I had the RF-5's for 6-months and loved them. Upgraded a couple months ago to the RF-7 and was initially disappointed. Turned out the RF-7 was more revealing and weakness in my CD-player really started to show (noticably harsh on the high end). Since changing my source the RF-7 is better than the RF-5. But it took a couple months of experimenting to get the most out of the 7's. Also found that best placement for the 7's was different compared to the 5's. So many variables, you really have to live with a new component or speaker for a while to appreciate it strengths and identify any weaknesses. Doug C

I typically listen in the 80-85 dB range which is relatively loud but comfortable for extended listening. On ocassion I will crank it up to the 90-95 dB range. As I have imporved my system over the past couple years I actually find I am listening at lower levels. Improved soundstage, clarity, etc. provide more listening satisfaction at lower levels. My RF-7's just sound cleaner & more dynamic at lower levels compared to my Paradigm Studio 100's for instance. Doug C

I have the X30 (line level crossover) and X20 (speaker level crossover). Both have. Both have two sub outputs. One output with variable phase control, the other output does not influence sub phase. This is very useful if you have twin subs and need to have different phasing to maximize bass quality. I personally find the 0 or 180 degree phase switch that most subs have is inadequate. With my twin sub set-up I find one sub set at 0 degrees and the other set at about 35 degrees to be the best. If you buy a sub look for one with variable phase control like the SVS powered units, this gives the greatest flexability. I have the SVS Ultras which are passive and have no phase control so I use the X20 for phasing. I find the only reliable way to phase one or more subs is with the test tone generator on my B&K preamp. The test tone generator provides tones in 2hz increments. Using a SLP meter I play tones from 20-110hz recording the SPL at each 2hz increment. This way I can see the peaks & nulls and adjust the phase accordingly (trial & error). I find with multi-subs you can get big peaks & nulls depending on the phasing. Generally you can find phase settings somewhere in the middle that help minimize the peaks and fill the nulls. In my room installing a parametric equalizer between my X30 and sub amp made a huge difference. I have a +14dB room induced peak in a narrow band around 36hz that I was finally able to get rid of by notching it out with the EQ. If you have quality subs and the bass is boomy then it is likely due to one or more room induced peaks. In my case regardless of sub location the 36hz peak was always there. Once I notched out the peak using the EQ I was able to increase the subs volume control by a factor of two with full, smooth bass. Doug C

I'm from just outside Springfield, IL. Have not found anyone in this area that is into music & gear as much as I am. Doug C

The RF-3's are a great value if your budget is limited. I listened to these at the dealer with my CD player and tube amp. I purchased the RF-5 because they were slightly better for music and the dealer gave me a very good trade-in on used speakers I had. I had the RF-5's for 6-months in a room only slightly larger than yours and loved them. I moved them into my main room (12'x 21'x 8') and liked them even more. I have better acoustic treaments in the larger room and I think this was the difference? I upgraded a couple months ago to the RF-7's. Initial impression of the 7's was more bass (using a 2 watt tube amp). The highs had a bit more grain on the high end compared to the 5's. I upgraded my source and the added grain disappeared. The point being the 7's have a more detailed high end and will reveal any source weakness. Based on my experience the RF-5's will do a good job in your room even if you knock out the wall in the future. The RF-5's were a little light on bass with my 2 watt tube amp (compared to the 7's) but a sub made this a non-issue. The RF-5's with my Musical Fidelity AC3r 120 watt/channel SS amp had very good bass. Given the efficency of the 5's you really only need 30-50 quality watts to make these pound. Doug C

I have twin SVS Ultra's with the sampson amp and like the combo. I do think the connectivity options offered by the powered versions are very nice to have. For example you have the option of connecting the subs via line level or speaker level connections. I found with my set-up I liked speaker level connections better (had to purchase an outboard speaker level crossover box for that with my passive subs). I also feel having a variable phase contorl for each sub in a multi-sub set-up is a must. Unless you co-locate the subs, you may have to phase the subs differently if you want to squeeze out maximum bass quality. The SVS powered subs have this feature. I have achieved all of the above using outboard boxes. Having done this I think I would have prefered SVS subs with built in amps and their features just for the convenience? And yes the standalone Sampson amp does have some fan noise. This will be more or less of an issue depending on room size and amp location. Doug C.

The RF-7's do need to be placed out from the front wall if at all possible to sound their best. I know that having speakers placed inside wall units looks cool but it just kills capable speakers like these. Try standing in a small closet with someone else and having a conversation and you will get an idea of what enclosures do to a speakers sound. Spending extra money for anything more than 20-40 watts to power the RF-7's is not necessary. I use a 2 watt/channel tube amp and have great bass and play the RF-7's at 90 dB regullarly with no strain. Another thing I learned while slowly upgrading my system over the past 6-years was that I really did not know what real bass was supposed to sound like. Earlier systems I had created a lot of distortion and bass notes just blended together with no distinction. With my current set-up and RF-7's I can hear each string on the bass being plucked individually. I have the front of my RF-7's about 5 feet from the wall behind them and this really does the trick. I know many room layouts don't allow this but you might want to pull them out and listen as an experiment. In my room I have the speakers placed about 16 inches from the side wall which is not ideal (side wall reflections are a problem). I installed sound panels on each side wall to absorb the first side wall reflection and this virtually eliminated that problem. The other thing I found with the 7's is that they are very revealing. I had the RF-5's which sounded great in my system and upgraded to the 7's. The 7's did not sound as smooth on the high end. Found that due to their ability to reproduce greater detail they also exposed weaknesses with my CD player that were not apparent when using the RF-5's. The point being that depending on other system components, the RF-7's can sound great, average or bad. Good Luck! Doug C

Good point, No I have not tried the new interconnects with the DAC out of the system and will do that. I did compare my DVD player connected via digital coax to the DAC versus my CD player connected via digital coax to the DAC and could tell no difference. Since my equipment rack is already crowded I've been listening the last few days using my DVD player as a transport. I've also tried optical to the DAC and hear no difference compared to the coax. The DAC-2 has coax and optical inputs with a push-button selection switch. I compared the two by switching on the fly using the selection switch. I now have the DVD player connected via digital coax to the outboard DAC and DVD players optical output connected to my B&K Reference 30 preamp. I'm able to switch via the preamp between the analog out of the outboard DAC and the analog out of the B&K's onboard DAC. I have balanced the levels from both to within 0.5 dB. The sound qualities described in my original post are evident (the Bel Canto DAC-2 being better). With the outboard DAC there is an extra set of 0.5 meter interconnects (between DAC and preamp)compared to using the B&K onboard DAC where the only interconnects in the path are from the preamp output to the amp input. I've always been a bit skeptical about interconnects having a significant impact on sound quality? Good quality connectors are a must but can't say I've ever really been able to attribute any sonic differences between different interconnects of good quality? But I will make a point to go back to the Homegrown Silver interconnects for a fair comparison. Doug C

As posted earlier I had the RF-5's for about 6-months and upgraded to the RF-7's about a month ago. After extended listening I found the RF-7's to be just a tad grainy on the top compared to the RF-5's. Other than the added sensitivity provided by the RF-7 I was actually thinking that I had a slight preferance for the sound of the RF-5 (very slight preference). Had been using my Marantz CD-17 CD player with both speakers and always considered this unit pretty good. For the heck of it I ordered a Bel Canto, DAC-2 outboard DAC from audioadvisor with 30 day return policy. The DAC-2 also upsamples to 24 bit 192kh before the analog conversion. Based on the price of the DAC-2 ($1,300.00) I really had no intention of keeping this piece. Have to say however that after a week of listening it will be hard to return this little guy. Now the change is not dramatic or night and day. But that little bit of high end grain that I hear from the RF-7's (compared to the RF-5's) is gone with the DAC-2 with even more detail on the high end. This has led me to conclude that the RF-7's high frequency driver is capable of more detail compared to the RF-5. I believe now that the added grain I heard from the RF-7 was actually a weakness of my source and not the speaker. The DAC-2 has also opened the soundstage further with more space and air. The most noticable improvement is in the low bass. Bass notes are better defined and more distinct with a very natural decay. There has been another side effect that does not make much sense to me. Previously when routing the analog signal through my B&K preamp using direct pass-through there was a slight loss of detail as opposed to going direct from my CD player to the amp. With the DAC-2 I really can't distinguish any difference between the two hook-up methods. This may be due to different interconnects? I had been using 2 sets of 1 meter Homgrown Audio silver interconnnects. When I purchased the DAC-2 I also purchased two pair of .5 meter Silver Reference interconnects from Decware. Apart from the sound these interconnects are reasonably priced, thin so they don't take up much space on the back of my already congested preamp, very flexible and easy to work with. With the DAC-2 in the mix there is no longer any doubt, I prefer the RF-7's over the 5's. The 5's are still great speakers. Since I'm using a 2 watt/channel tube amp the added speaker sensitivity is a big plus. The added volume output capability is significant (more than I was expecting). Doug C