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The Legacy Audio Deep Impact subwoofers are very good subs. They will play 120 db at 40hz! However, they are not designed for Bass below about 22 hz. Some of the HSU and SVS Subs will play lower, if that is what you seek. I have owned both the SVS Ultra Pair of cylinders, and currently own the Legacy Deep Impact. However, I never owned both, at the same time. But, from memory the SVS Ultra Pair of Cylinders, mounted in my room corners were real room shakers, but lacked mid bass punch. The Legacy does not seem to go quite as low, but still shakes the room, and has a lot more of that mid bass kick. Both subwoofers will play louder than I want.

I very much like the way it sounds! I owned original Forte's once, that sounded great in my large room. I probably should have kept them, but they looked kind of stupid in this room, because they are rather small. They would shake the room with bass. However, from my recollection, they did not sound like this Academy very much.

What line of Klipsch Speakers was the Academy intended for ? Is there a line of Klipsch speakers that use the same drivers as the Academy ?

How did you "dial back your mids"

OK, I got the Pyle PT 588, but it had a serious problem, on any of the HDMI Inputs, volume was very very low, barely enough to drive the LaScala's However, on the tuner, it would blow you out of the room. The sensitivity of the tuner was terrible. Pyle took it back, end of that experiment. I picked up a Refurbished Onkyo Integra 50.3 from Accessories, it sounds pretty good on the LaScala's actually.

I hear ya! These https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/699ar/index.html and the LaScala's are my current main speakers. The AR 1's are 96 db @1 watt, and have a 500 watt Sunfire amp to handle the bass built in. Power should not be a problem

I have speakers for a 7.1 system, with front height channels. I will lose my front height channels with the Pyle PT588ab, and will also lose on screen display and Internet Radio. No up sampling either, but it does have 4k bypass.

I live near enough to them to go pick up things. They are a few hours away from the Tampa area. That is a very good deal on a 5.1 receiver. Back when I had the Vandersteens, I had an ONKYO TX NR 809 The Pyle PT 588AB sounded better, on both the Forte's and Vandersteen's.

A few years ago, I picked up one of these http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PT588AB/51-Channel-Home-Theater-AV-Receiver,-BT-Wireless-Streaming-(HDMI,-4K-Ultra-and-3D-TV-Pass-Through-Support) Behold, the PYLE PT588AB I bought this El Cheapo Pyle Receiver, for a number of reasons #1 - It has pre outs #2 - It has remotely controlled bass and treble controls #3- It has remote controls subwoofer level #4 It can be had for under 150.00 At that time, I had Vandersteen 2 CE's and Klipsch Original Forte's. Believe it or not, it sounded great on the original Forte's, so I threw the Vandersteen's in. On the Vandersteens, it was shockingly 3 dimensional. I go through tons of stuff, and the guy who bought the Vandersteen's returned and insisted I sell him the Pyle PT588AB, so it went to a good home. I have been driving my LaScala's with a Pioneer D3 digital amp. Recently, I bought a MUSE Chip amp and a Harman Kardon AVR 247. The Muse Chip amp is ok, but not as good as the Pioneer Elite receiver with the D3 digital amp. However, the Harman Kardon AVR 247 is wonderful on the LaScala's, compared to the Pioneer. The Pyle will be here in a week, so we will see how it does ? The Harman Kardon AVR 247 has sound dropouts, one minute you are watching TV, and the sound drops out, requiring you to turn things off, and then back on I am hoping a firmware update fixes it. So far, it is the best of all I have tried on the LaScala's.

Tell me what you used to elevate the LaScala ?

I wasn't talking about surround modes, I was talking about direct, pure direct, auto surround, alc You MUST use one of those modes on my SC 87

The old Counterpoint amps like the SA 220 I think it was is a hybrid Tube/Mosfet that used weird Mosfets made for power supplies.

Bob is capable of making a solid state amp sound exactly like a tube amp. I heard it for myself at his house. However, this is not possible to do in a production amplifier, because there are too many variables for it to work. The resistor trick Bob taught me I posted at the start of this thread sometimes works better then one would think. And, the more terrible sounding the solid state amp is, the better it works! Phase Linear 400's were never known for sound quality, and the resistor literally transforms them.

The resistors DO effect the damping factor of a solid state amplifier, and if you use too much resistance, damping factor goes to crap, and you get that fuzzy soft limp sound. If you like what you have now, go with what ya got BTW, my friend with the VMPS RM 40's could not remember how much putty to use on them, he tunes with a bass CD and a SPL meter.

Here is whats coming, and is already being used in Pro Sound. One day, we will have transistor amplifiers, that will have the DSP powered emulation, where one can dial up the sound of several Tube Amplifiers.

ROTFLMAO I caught that too

Gee, so by your Logic, God help those of us who use Equalization or Tone Controls on our systems. Guess what, when I buy any amp, it is no longer the designers amp, it is MY Amp, and I will make it sound like I want it to. One day, in the not too far future, DSP and computer modeling will make it possible for you to make your amp sound however you want It is already happening to the most hard core tube lovers, guitar players! The guitar player forums have plenty of threads on this subject Solid state amps are generally more dependable, since they utilize transistors in place of tubes. Back in the early days of solid state amps many musicians would say they lack the warm, responsive tones of tube amps, but with all the years of tube emulation circuits this is said much less and sometimes the tone is preferred creating new tones in new genres of music.

Here is the problem, Bob can make his transistor amps sound like ANY amp, tube or solid state, but only on one speaker/wire combination. Jim Croft who used to own Definitive audio designed the OLD Lightstar amps, I am unfamiliar with the newer stuff. Here is a tube amp some are using, that is inexpensive and American Made !!!!!! https://carvinaudio.com/products/ts100

The guitar amplifier guys are using computer modeled solid state amps and DSP to emulate a Tube Sound.

Here is some more discussion http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/1-5-ohm-resistor-in-series-with-speaker.250403/

Several MCACC Threads have referenced this MCACC Set Up Thread from Germany. It is quite long, and the translation isn't perfect, but FWIW, here it is Pioneer MCACC Setup Guide The ultimate masterpiece by ENCOM Bluray-disc.de Foreword and Introduction Understanding MCACC Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration System MCACC is no panacea for soundproof and asymmetrical sounding rooms. MCACC is a tool with which you can visualize the weak points on the frequency side of a room . Similarly, you can use this tool to throttle or amplify different frequencies to customize the sound preferences in the current or new room. This is a basic procedure, which should be followed in their step sequence. Space optimization For all those who want to insulate their space with various absorbers, all steps should finish the conversion first in order not to have to do duplicate work. But those who do not shy away from time and effort, can take a measurement in the "nakt" room and then later contrast it with the measurement in the finished room to make the effect of the conversion visible. It should be noted that at the EQ nothing is changed, because you want to represent in both measurements only the sound quality of the room and not adapt the system to the indefinite room condition. Measurement and optimization The best result I have achieved with the following procedure. It's a bit different than the "small gauge" part of the MCACC thread. I have one myself once again sets and revisits old and re-worked. The aim was to achieve a warm, homogeneous sound. I took only limited account of the curves , because a perfect curve does not necessarily meet your personal taste. A completely linearized system reproduces the original sound , but the tastes are different and I personally like a warm tone. Much more I have worked with the calibration times and the resulting calibration of the system, which has delivered a far better result than just a perfect linearization. Important in the following procedure is that it is clear which area is particularly important. As the language area is particularly complex, I have decided to systemize the system initially so that level exactly this area sounds "silky". The bass management does not include quite as many bands and can be manually adjusted to the desire, as far as the bass performance of the speakers, if necessary . Important - boundary conditions! Important ! Remove all pit covers !!! Comparative measurements have shown me that Stoffabdeckugen in their permeability are not always the same and may possibly lead to different measurement results . Especially in the symmetry mode, this often leads to phase errors, where actually none are. After I removed the covers, was at none of the subsequent calibrations and measurements via the MCACC, erroneous measurements or misstatement of phase errors signaled. The basis for a successful calibration and the subsequent measurement is the correct measurement and determination of the room. The LS distance plays no unimportant role and can only be determined correctly without error. Important ! Be sure to put the supplied microphone on a tripod. On the crooked backrest, or a pile of books, the system can only be calibrated to a limited extent and, accordingly, measurements can not be perfect. It is quite sufficient to use a tripod or similar for a few euros !!! The tripod should be averaged out with a spirit level and stand perfectly. Inclination can lead to incorrect measurements during the fine adjustment of the distance , which can then lead to an undesired level offset due to incorrect transit times . Important ! X - Curve should be at 0 Db . Also, you should leave the controls for bass and treble at 0 during the procedure to 0, as this influence when probhören suggests a different sound . The actual, current sound in the config and setup mode is to be evaluated without consideration of these elements. Preparing to Measure From my own experience, I can confidently say that a single ---- Savespot ---- is never enough. It comes under warranty a CD, DVD, BD, or synonymous Vinyl, where you are no longer satisfied with its configuration and then the " bungling" starts. Since the ---- savespot ---- copied, moved, the EQ manipulated and in the end you do not remember where screw was twisted. The only thing you know with 100% certainty is that it just does not sound the way it used to. So what to do? The whole "measuring" is a venture, which will take from now on about 1.5 - 2 hours , provided that the LS are as they should stand in the future . The entire procedure is divided into 6 points. 1.) Measuring the room 2.) Calibrating the system and creating 3 memory points for all possible measuring methods. 3.) Analyze and find out the correct time measurement window. Specifically room. 4.) Actual calibration 5.) Linearization and adaptation. 6.) Tips and tricks that have nothing to do with the technically correct linearization and work with MCACC. Chapter 1 - Measuring the room and determine the speaker systems used --- Savespot 1 --- use !!! 1.) First you start a fully automatic MCACC in the mode symmetry. 1.Advanced MCACC a. Full Auto MCACC - Mode Symmetry --- Savespot 1 --- 2.) Now set all the desired speaker to Small and select the X - overfrequency off. 4. Basic setting - a. Manual LS setting - 2. LS settings Note: Not all speaker types must be set to Small . The precision depends on the type of speaker and also on the personal hearing, as well as the electronics used. In my example, Center and Surrounds are set to Small . Front L & R run as Large. X - Over 50 Hz. The entire front runs in bi - amping mode. When my subs are switched on , all speakers run on small. X - Over 80 Hz 3.) Now we copy this memory point --- Savespot 2 & 3 --- Chapter 2 - Calibration of the system and create the required memory locations 4.) Next, run the automatic EQ calibration, setting the parameters to LS. Once. to keep. This calibrates the system without the EQ setting. 1.Advanced MCACC - b. Automatically MCACC - At the top where ALL is, we now click once to the right, so LS. Once. Keep appears. - We now assign the following measurement methods to ---- Savespots ---- 1 - 3 as follows. 1 = Symmetry 2 = All Chan Adj. 3 = Front Allign. Start measurement ... Now the system is calibrated for all measurement methods based on the room. Chapter 3 - Analyze and Find the Right Timing Window. Space Specific. 5.) Now let's take a look at the ---- Savespot 1 ---- symmetry and do a reverberation measurement to see the actual course of the frequencies in our room. 1.Advanced MCACC - c.Manual MCACC - 5. EQ Professional - a. Reverberation EQ OFF Note: This procedure achieves a fine pre-calibration of the internal EQ. All these points 1 -5 should be made in one piece without changing the microphone . If you want to take a break for some reason, you should first determine the old position the next day via the fine adjustment of the distance, which is very tedious. Take your easy time and makes the whole calibration on a piece !!! 6.) Now you load the result on the laptop or PC. Consider the reverberation measurement. If there are frequencies that are too extreme, this may be due to a too long measurement time. This means that you may not be able to set your desired sound, because bass, mid and high have different durations and also be perceived by the human ear different loud. DBA and DAC measurement. Time window search - The most time-consuming and difficult part In order to make the "reading" of the plot easy for everyone, I describe in the following sentences how to easily recognize where the problem lies Room is located. It is important that you have the first page with the curves in the AV Navigator and then click on the AFTER button on the top right, because only the curves AFTER the calibration interest us. Zoom level Z can be moved 2 to 3 clicks to the left. So the curve is a little smoothed. In the maxzoom you will see 10 differences in 10 measurements, because the sound and the reverb time are dependent on a lot of physical conditions, which we can not influence anything . Too long measurement time = The bass rips out extremely and also the mids and highs are enormously "boosted. Too Short Measurement Time = The bass and mid-bass are very flat and accordingly the sound. Determine the time window. 7.) I have here 3 different measurands, which can be found in the PRO EQ subitem Advanced EQ. 60 - 80 ms. Longest, manually selectable time. 30 - 50 ms. recommended. 10 - 20 ms. Shortest measuring time. Since the reverb time is very long at punk 1, almost all frequencies here have the time they need to be reflected in the room. The consequence is that especially in the middle and high-frequency range of the PRO EQ those frequencies are regulated too much, which bring a very high or bright sound picture with it. 7.1) Availability of walking - measuring times. 80 -160 ms. Default value. ONLY IN FULL AUTO MCACC (will only be executed automatically and can not be selected manually) 60 - 80 ms 50 - 70 ms 40 - 60 ms Note: 30 - 50 ms Recommended by Pioneer This time should be the perfect one strives to use as a basis to be able to make a first tendency / statement: too long and too short time will not work, so start in the middle, if necessary, go up one step at the second , but go down 20 - 40 ms. (my final choice) 10 - 30 ms 0 - 20 ms 8.) This part is certainly the most time-consuming, because you have a high number of Calibrations and reverberation measurements must perform. It is best to put this point on memory points 4 - 6. The curves do not matter at the moment , because the hearing should decide, with which time the sound one likes best. In my case, I have 20-40 ms for the measurement time . decided, since so the middle and high range corresponds to my imagination . But presupposes that later I have to readjust the bass manually to the LS . For this purpose, it is recommended to use several CDs to test to avoid overemphasis. Chapter 4 - Actual calibration --- Savespot 1 --- use !!! 1.) We choose again the 1. Advanced MCACC - Automatic MCACC - leaving the setting at All at the top, since we are now using the system and the calibration is finished. 2.) We check if the ---- Savespots ---- still fit the measuring methods. 1. symmetry. 2. All Chan.Adj. 3. Front Align 3.) Start measurement. 4.) Now we have all three measurement methods professionally correct. Note: Please remember to make the right choice for the speaker setup. Small or Large. Small has the distinct advantage of having all the energy available for clean control of funds and resources Tweeter can be used. This is particularly important for receivers, which indeed have an impressive performance in writing, then go to their knees when requested. That's because the bass needs the most power. So who drives his system with a receiver, without additional power amplifiers, should make friends with Small. The sonic gain is not to be despised. Please put off the fear of the electronic "castration" of potent loudspeakers! Large has the advantage that with a meticulous linearization almost all frequencies can be corrected. To the basement of 63 Hz. To be used by All Chan. Adj. Who a Vor.- End Combi drives, or has a receiver with separate amplifiers, which can quite experiment with it and come to a satisfactory result. ATTENTION: How well one can linearise his system depends not insignificantly on the room acoustics. Especially with Small, it often happens that you have peaks in the 63 Hz range after a measurement. This frequency can NOT be changed and adjusted in Small . In that case you should experiment with an even higher X Over Frequency, so that just bass parts are almost completely taken over by the Sub / Subs. Further notes on Small Vs. Large Please register here for free to see the link. Thanks Patrick Star Chapter 5 - Lineraisierung and final adjustment 1.) First we copy --- Savespot 1 --- on --- Savespot 4 --- 2.) Savespot 2 on Savespot 5 3.) Savespot 3 on Savespot 6 Now we have 3 Savespots to experiment and 3 as backup. At Savespot 1 -3 nothing is changed !!! If you want to linearize your system precisely to the smallest detail, you will need the Savespot 5 All Chan. Adj. There each channel was calibrated without special emphasis its location fair. At this point you can take a lot of time and perfectly linearize the entire system. Who cares that all speakers sound almost identical, which should be with the Savespot 6 deals with front align. There, the main speakers L & R are NOT equalized. Only the other speakers are adapted to the front LS. Do not let the crazy curves drive you crazy. Listen to it. In my opinion the best for music . If you want to linearize a bit, but not the imensen effort as in All Chan. Adj., He should look at the symmetry mode. There is left and right always the same. This means that the curve representation is ALWAYS displayed as a pair of the LS. Also, the EQ is easy to configure, because you just just Front L & R - Surr. L & R must set equal. Note. After each correction, a manual reverberation measurement MUST be used respectively. The EQ MUST be ON because you want to measure and display the changed frequency response in the room. Chapter 6 - Tips and Tricks ATTENTION - Here we leave the path of technical and technically correct measurement. If you want to adjust your sound a bit to your listening preferences , you can proceed as follows ... Too little bass? Just open the EQ. Simply control the test tone via Volumcontrol to quiet. Select the LS (s) concerned and adjust the frequencies upwards. Bass = 63 Hz, 125 Hz Do not overdo it if you change the center and surrounds as well . Fast it can roar again. Left and right around the same amount change. Count any clicks. Likewise, with Audio Parameter under the item Tone, the bass control can be raised. It should be noted, however, that the entire range of 63 Hz, 125 Hz and 250 will be increased by the same level. Sound too bright? Again, you can proceed as in the bass problem, but the voice range and high-pitch range is far more complex and not quite as easy to set manually . Piece by piece is the motto. For those who are too loud and dominant in music, or especially in films (shots, explosions), the X Curve should be considered in the subsection of the manual MCACC and this one around Lower some DB. The formula described in the BA is nice and good, but no guarantee that this correlates with personal hearing. I lowered this by -2DB and am perfectly satisfied. Congratulations. You have successfully set up your Pioneer MCACC system .

My Pioneer Elite SC 87 ONLY has these 4 modes, and AFAIK, you must use one of these. I use Direct, not pure direct, because it turns off the full band phase control IMHO, that is one of the best featured of this receiver. On my SC 87, Only the Pure Direct defeats some, not all, of the DSP. It appears that the changes MCACC makes like level, speaker settings and EQ work in pure direct mode, however, the full band phase control is definitely disabled in pure direct. In face, it will not even allow you to engage it in Pure Direct.

Much of the time, refurbished is really new, they just call it refurb as an excuse to sell a new unit cheaper, so the dealers dont get pissed off

Or, go see the Michigan Wolverines play here in Tampa at the Outback Bowl, and forget this audio addiction for a day

Of course, they do But a few dollars for some resistors can surely change the sound of an amplifier. And, so can room correction schemes. In fact, I am getting ready to run MCACC this evening.