Bananas and Blow

Yep. I agree with your take. I see threads like this often on hifi forums. And you get a variety of responses based on opinions. Mine is that the order of important is to think of it in terms of synergy. Match the speakers to the room size. Match the amp to the speakers. If you get both of these things right, you are going to get good sound. Just add neutral sources and you are good to go. It's about synergy not order of importance. But if forced to answer I put speakers at the top. Including matching them to the room.

I agree with the consensus that the preamp makes the biggest difference in the sound you are feeding your horns :). Especially with easy to drive Heritage speakers. I used to have separates but have gone to mostly being interested in integrated amps so I lump the preamp and amp sound together. One amp I would REALLY like to try with my Fortes is the Pass Labs XA25. But the pass integrated version has such a basic premp section it doesn't work for me. And that means finding a quality tube amp to run the Pass. And now it's becoming a very expensive endeavor to improve upon my Cary SLI-80 integrated which is the perfect amp for my tastes with the Fortes. I may go to separates at some point simply because I would really like to try out a Mac MC225 or MC30s at some point. I also want to try a modern Mac integrated. But I'm still not sure they would best the sound I'm getting from my current sweet little integrated.

I agree with this. I sometimes need even longer than an evening of listening to decide. Moods and music choice can play a factor as well. And in the end I use the same deciding factor as Shakey: which did I enjoy the most? What amp took me out of critical listening mode and into another place musically? The longer Im in the audiophile game the quicker I've gotten about deciding what I like because I've learned what sound I like to listen to the most. And that sound is Klipsch with tubes.

I have broken in a new pair of H IV's and my beloved Forte IV's. The bass character changed dramatically. The midrange was the last thing to open up on both speakers at about 100 hours. I had to move my Forte's more than a foot further from the back wall once the woofers loosened up. The midrange changed the most on the Heresys. To be honest a touch more forward that I prefer but they still sounded wonderful. They didn't have enough bass for my medium sized room so I kept the Fortes. They are the best speaker I've ever owned by a good margin. Not the most expensive though. If you don't believe in break in, I'm not going to change your mind. But the sound change wasn't subtle.

I bet the Inspire series sound great and work great with the heritage line. I have a Dennis Had amp in the form of a Cary SLI-80 signature, originally designed by the man himself. It is a match made in heaven with my Forte IV. And was a great match for my H4s. Musical, soft edges yet still wonderfully dynamic with the Forte. Fluid. Just makes you want to put on album after album and drift off into the night...as it's doing right now.

Heresy. But you might prefer the sound more like 8 feet away from the front of the speakers. I did when i owned the Heresy IV.

I own the Forte IV's. I need them 22inches from the backwall in my 15X20 room to avoid the bass overwhelming the room. No way in hell would I enjoy them in a 10X10 room. I like an appropriate amount of bass and am not a bass-head. I owned the Heresy IV and I would think they would be great in a 10X10 room and wouldn't need a sub. I liked the H4 exactly 10 inches from the backwall. They will give you about 10 more hz deeper than your H1. I have moved my Fortes all over my room and when I put them 10 inches from the backwall the bass was overpowering. I suppose there was a certain awesomeness in a rock concert kind of way. But it wasn't something I would want to listen to for long. My biggest challenge after 100 hours of breaking in my Fortes was taming in the bass...in a much bigger room than yours. When I settled on EL-34 tubes in my amp with about 25 watts was the bass perfect, but I don't like bass that pummels my ear drums. If you do then you might love the Fortes in your room.

The Heresy projects a sound much higher than it's short position would suggest. I have a pair of Heresy IV and Forte IV in my room and at a listening distance of 9 fee they sound almost the same height. The Forte sound maybe 2 inches taller. It's something. Raising the Heresy off the ground will have a negative impact on the bass and is unnecessary in the right room. In your room the Forte would be a better fit. Did you end up buying a pair?

Have you tried running any EL34 family power tubes in your Primaluna? I found I preferred the KT77's and the Tung-Sol EL34's with my Forte IV's. Midrange magic. Less bass but can move the speakers closer to the wall to compensate. I also tried KT88's and KT120s but did not like them as much. Less musical and less of that "in the room" tube presence.

Sadly I do have a 60hz ground loop hum I cannot seem to get rid of with either tube amp I own. But I can't hear it from the listening position or when the music is playing so I just live with it. The same amps with less efficient speakers the buzz is nearly inaudible but the efficient Fortes reveal the buzz. Sometimes it bothers me. But the music sounds so damn good I just let it go and enjoy.

I've listened to this in the past and the thing that really jumps out at me is the difference in midrange presentation. The CW is more forward and the Forte more recessed. I've had the Forte IV as my main speaker for a year and am thrilled with it's sound. However I recently picked up a pair of Heresy IV and listened to them for a solid 5-6 weeks. Once they were broken in I came to love the sound but missed that final octave of bass that the Fortes had. This week I put back the Fortes and the midrange sounds recessed to my ears. I miss the midrange "attitude" of the Heresy. I like the greater impact the larger Fortes make but the Heresy has a tighter snappier bass and bolder midrange. Never thought I'd think of replacing the Fortes with the Heresy but it's actually a possibility. Sounds to me like the CW is the better marriage of both with the deep bass and more pronounced midrange. I do not have room for the very wide CW's unfortunately. There is a pair locally for sale in my favorite walnut for $4500 also. Sigh. Can't have them all.

If this was on the Hoffman forums it may have been. I've only been on this forum for a couple of months. I have a decent sized room but yes live in a 2 bedroom apartment. I don't like too much bass so I can't fathom needing a sub for the Fortes. Maybe the Heresy though. I've got the Heresy IV now 12 inches from the back wall and the bass is nice and full and sounds great. But it does roll off under 50hz. I'll have to try my REL sub with them. They are finally broken in or at least I think they are and the Heresy is a great, great speaker.

I own the Heresy IV and the Forte IV and in a 12X 12 room I would prefer the Heresy. The Heresy IV has great tight punchy bass. In your relatively small room you will get musical bass. It would be easy for the Forte to overpower that size room with bass. Hersey is the smallest of the bunch but it is in the same category of refinement as the rest of the lineup. You can get the Heresy deep by placing it close to the back wall. Do that with the Forte and the bass will floor you which is cool. But something you might want to listen to for very long. I keep my Fortes about 28 inches from the back wall to balance the bass is a much larger room. This depends on personal taste on bass. If you like to shake the walls, go Fortes. If you like a balanced lighter bass do the Heresy. I love these speakers both equally. So much fun to listen to.

I owned the 2245 and it's conservatively rated and I've read it puts out about 60 watts continuous. None of this matters with the uber efficient Klipsh. You will be just fine with either model with this amp. More was not better with my Heritage speakers. In fact sometimes it was worse. Best I've heard mine sound are with 25 Watts of tube power.

If you listen to charts and graphs and like a grumpy old man who has an agenda that website is great. Can't stand the guy, his disposition or a bunch of his contributions to another forum I frequent where he didn't exactly portray himself in a positive nor professional light. But if you judge a system by math, I suppose it might be useful.

I agree with this. Amp pairing is incredibly important with the Heresy as well. Fussy about placement as well. They are such bold speakers, they are unforgiving of anything off in the system. When you get them right though they are my favorite speaker I've ever heard. The best I've head my Forte IV sound are with the Cary Audio SLI-80 signature tube amp. It's a relaxed sounding amp which pairs like heaven with the forward sounding Heritage line.

I agree with this. Amp pairing is incredibly important with the Heresy as well. Fussy about placement as well. They are such bold speakers, they are unforgiving of anything off in the system. When you get them right though they are my favorite speaker I've ever heard. The best I've head my Forte IV sound are with the Cary Audio SLI-80 signature tube amp. It's a relaxed sounding amp which pairs like heaven with the forward sounding Heritage line.

Really interesting read from a perspective of what not to do in buying a new pair of Klipsch Heritage speakers. Day 1 with no break in he was already drawing conclusions about the speaker, saying they aren't worth it. By day 5 with the speakers he was already drawing absolute conclusions about the speakers. One mention of speaker positioning by the OP, didn't take any other suggestions. Listened to a 36 inch tall speaker standing up and complained about the center image being off. Then took his ball and went home. I would suggest the OP had a bit of "I got it all figured out, I don't need anyone's help." Who knows if he ended up liking them. Not to say that Klipsch are for everyone. But only spending 6 days listening to a new pair of speakers does not tell you a whole lot about a speaker. I'm on day 16 listening to a new pair of Heresy IV's and my opinion of them has changed 4 or 5 times during the break-in process, different amps, and playing with placement/toe in within the constructs of my room. I own 2 sets of Klipsch, H IV and Forte IV and I've found placement to make a HUGE difference in the sound. 1/2 an inch can make a difference in the quality of sound. Anyone who doubts speaker break in either has a closed mind or has never purchased a brand new set of Klipsch IV series speakers. The difference is dramatic from day 1 to 100 hours.

Very nice systems and rooms! Love to see the big CW's with tubes.

Interesting post. I am getting to know my Heresy IV's as I just got them 2 weeks ago and Iast night I experienced the same thing when I pulled them too far into the room. Midrange overpowering the sound. A couple records sounded like there was no bass. I moved them back 1.5 inches today and the bass has returned and mids are not so dominant. My Fortes are very responsive to placement and I'm starting to get the same picture of the Heresy. One inch can make a big difference in both speakers.

I wonder how many people return a heritage line speaker before it really gets broken in. I'm in the process of breaking in some Heresy IV and previously broke in a pair of Forte IV's. I'm at about 70 hours on the Heresy and they are not there yet. The Fortes took about 100 hours to arrive at their final sound. The Fortes are the best speaker I've ever owned and absolutely love them. I did not like them when I first got them. Sounded dull and lacked bass. The bass has opened up on the Heresy but there is still some harshness and shoutiness. I'm curious to see if that does away over time. I shirly hope so and expect it to. I know this is a controversial topic but my experience is these speakers change a whole lot in the first 100 hours of playback. They improve dramatically. The idea that the OP that returned them couldn't get bass out of a CW IV is laughable. It's rated to 34 hz! My fortes slam like no other speaker I've owned. And they are only rated to 38hz.

Wasn't my experience with James at all. I found him to be very upfront and honest. I agree 30 watts sounds like a bad combo with the 86 dB speakers. Even Raven's website sugggested the same thing. Then I tried it and I realized that 30 watts is a lot more powerful than it suggests. It performed like a 100 watt solid state amp. Impactful bass. Dynamic. Ironically my 40 watt Cary tube amp could not effectively drive the same 86 dB speakers. Could be solid state rectifiers making the difference. Better output transformers? Not sure but that 30 watt Raven amp can drive a lot more speakers effectively than you might think. It sounded more authoritative on the Dynaudio Special 40's than my 100 Watt Yamaha A-s801. I know a guy who ran the Blackhawk with 84dB KEF LS50's and said it was a magical combination. And he's a fussy audiophile. Back to Klipsch, the Osprey will bring you wonderfully dynamic open, detailed sound with the Cornwalls. Magic midrange. Wide and tall soundstage. It's a tremendous sounding amp. The best I've owned. If you really want it to sound it's best you need to get some quality NOS tubes. I was not impressed at all with the Philips 12AT7's from the late 80's they are shipping at the base rate.

The Osprey is never going to be too much power for Cornwalls so I don't see any reason you need a weaker amp than this. If the Blackhawk isn't enough amp at 20 watts the 30 watts isn't really much more power. I have an Osprey and it powers the relatively power hungry Dynaudio Special 40's with ease. The Tung-Sol 7581A tubes they ship with are powerful and dynamic tubes. I think the Osprey performs like a 100 Watt solid state amp. Amazing sound quality amp. I will have to try the Osprey with my Forte IV soon but i suspect it may be too much bass in my room. The Osprey is authoritative on bass. It's quite an amp. But if I was buying this amp for the CW IV I would get the Blackhawk because it is more than powerful enough. Run the Salks on the 4 ohm tap and run only 12AT7's in the first 2 rows of preamp tubes. With the Cornwalls you might want to run all 12AU7's. James recommended running 12AT7's in the first row and 12au7's in the second row to reduce output to my Fortes. But I'm going to try running all 12AU7's as the amp is still way more than enough for any Klipsch Heritage speaker. The Osprey is the best sounding amp I've owned. But it's very dynamic and will make the Cornwalls extremely dynamic. I haven't decided yet whether I like this much dyncamics in sound. I also have a Cary Audio SLI-80 tube amp that is more relaxed in sound and I think it might pair better with them. Bass is softer, warmer and less powerful on the Cary, but I think I prefer it. But I don't like a lot of bass.

Those old Fisher tube amps sound wonderful and pair great with vintage Klipsch. Not surprised it sounds so good.

DAC - Internal on the Marantz SACD 30N. Alternating between 4 components for the rest of them: Amp: Raven Audio- Osprey 3.1 Cary Audio - SLI-80 signature Speakers: Forte IV Heresy IV The Cary is a match made in heaven and has been my daily driver for the last year with the Fortes. Just got the Raven and Heresy so running them together while I break in the Heresys. Got about 25 hours on them so far. They sound better than they did with zero hours on them but they aren't quite there yet.