DTLongo

Take a look at Outlaw Audio - www.outlawaudio.com. I have their Model 970 pre/pro running a Klipschorns + Belle setup through their model 7075 amp and it's just fine.

It might not be fashionable to recommend non-Klipsch on a Klipsch forum, but there are remarkably good "sleeper" mini-speakers out there that you might want to consider. They are the Minimus-7 speakers sold by Radio Shack (yes, RatShack) several years ago. They are catalog # RS-4051 under an RCA brand name and catalog No. 40-2030C under the Realistic name. These little speakers are GOOD. They are built like little tanks in heavy metal enclosures. They have wonderful mid-to-high frequency response. Do a Google search for them. You can also find them from time to time on eBay. Coupled with any good powered subwoofer they make an ideal small sound system. For minor cost including the sub they would give you a very adequate sound system for your smaller future space and for the time being even now until you do move.

InnerTube wrote, "My semi-rational impulsive inner being - I like both Cornwalls and KHorns. To me, KHorns float you in a sea of less directional sound, filling the room..." I like that description. To me, as I described my own impressions of Khorns a long while ago on this forum, Klipschorns just seem to energize the utter air in the room. I had that impression again when I turned them on just now and the local FM classical station was running a vigorous Mozart piano concerto and wow, the room was alive again. I should be hitting the sack but no, gotta stay up and hear the rest of that concerto. That's what Khorns do... .

Sure. Just be aware that if your present system has a good subwoofer, you might have to turn the sub way down or off since the rumble it reproduces could cause feedback through your phono stylus.

Your first listening impressions PLEASE!? Firing up a set of your very own long-yearned-for Klipschorns is like first solo in an airplane. An unforgettable moment that you'll long remember in detail. Bear in mind that Khorns are very amplifier sensitive and they require a while to break in. So, your first listening impression may not be the one you eventually come to settle down with them with.

Been there done that so to speak when my new '03's arrived that year. See pic. The two bass bins are stacked vertically to the left, the midrange-and-treble units on the right. The dealer, about 30 miles away from my home at the time, had special-ordered them for me and he and his assistant delivered them personally. They were like kids themselves having never sold a pair of Khorns. Fortunately the weather cooperated and they drove carefully and the speakers arrived mint, as they still are today together with their companion Belle center that I got new in 2004. The picture date is April 6, 2003. No, I didn't pay half price. They listed new at the time for $7500, I got 'em for $6500. Dream of a lifetime since I began this hobby in the early 1950's at the age of around 12. OK, now I'll shut up to let InnerTuber get on with his tale.

Well,... OK, only one of them is female but I couldn't resist.

"Please post a picture in relationship to the desk/amp/fax setup if possible.". The second picture earlier in this string is how things are set up at present and will give you an idea. The speaker array, out of that picture to the right, appears below. The Velodyne sub can be seen peeking out from the left behind the file cabinet.

Actually, during the listening session with my younger son (Mark) we switched the EQ in and out. On much of the gnarly stuff the EQ boost was hardly missed. On some Mark really liked it back in. This may sound ironic but except for the extremes classical music is not as dramatic on this array as rock. I had the same impression some four years ago when GaryMD brught his little 10 wpc Fisher tube amp out to try on my (then) new Klipschorn pair. The difference from my then sort of crappy solid-state amp was great on rock, pop and such, barely noticeable on classical. But when it's WELL-recorded classical and one knows the music and one knows what to listen for (those inner voice winds and such), well, I've had a professional symphony orchestra conductor sit here spellbound.

I really hope I'm not boring anybody with this string but here's the latest. Over Xmas my two sons visited me, 39 and 37 years old respectively. The younger one, who has serious heavy-metal rock band musician experience, brought along an MP3 player with some of his favorite stuff. For some four hours December 27 did he ever wring out my system! Oh-my-gawd. The Klipschorns + Belle took everything in stride, it was pretty awesome, I mean, they were rolling at stadium-volumes with much really gnarly stuff. It wasn't my usual classical! NO distortion, NO breakup, nothin'. Just great sound, and my son was duly impressed as in Awesoooome. More to the point of this posting, the Outlaw gear really impressed. After this full gonads-to-the-wall session the Outlaw Model 7075 amp was STILL only barely and I mean barely warm to the touch. Talk about being overbuilt.

If you like what you have now, no. Klipschorns are VERY demanding. They are very amplifier-sensitive not to mention merciless on less than perfect program material. When you finally do have them dialed in perfectly they are awesome. But it can be a long and expensive time getting here. And by all means before you buy 'em, travel if necessary but give them a good hard listen first with a sampling of recordings that you know completely so you will hear what difference the Khorns make. Just (again) be aware that with different amplification you may have at home they WILL sound different than what you hear when you audition.

I like the Outlaw 7075 amp very much. It just sits and does its thing flawlessly. Of course my Klipschorns + Belle are very efficient and the amp's 75 wpc. is more than sufficient to drive them loud and effortlessly. I'm sure you would be quite happy with one of Outlaw's larger amps.

TRUST YOUR EARS! Plus bear in mind that program quality can vary markedly be it CD's, FM radio, MP3 or whatever. Establish your own stable of a half-dozen or so recordings that YOU like and let them be your listening tests for new gear. I've been all over this hobby from student-poor to Klipschorns+ Belle rich. A good ca. $1,000- $2,000 subwoofer + satellite system can be eminently satisfying, trust me. But you gotta listen to and wring it out first with your own ears and with your own stable of reference recordings before you buy.

Here's an update after a week with the new gear. I guess there are about 25 hours or so on the new electronics. I don't know how breaking in electronics compares with electromechanical devices like speakers, but there is a subjective sense after the 25 hours that things are aurally more "comfortable" and less dry and more full. Whatever, I now have the system dialed in I think to my liking. Being able to use the outboard equalizer between the Outlaw Model 970 preamp and 7075 power amp is a godsend. I had forgotten what a good thing equalization can be! Plus, as compared with the earlier photo I've moved the EQ unit atop the power amp. It is now right at hand's reach from my desk (see photo below) so I easily can turn it on and off with the other gear and tailor it to individual program material. (The "stilts" that you see the EQ on in the photo are old turntable vibration-isolators. The added clearance provides cooling ventilation for the 7075 amp.) Quality speakers like Klipschorns are merciless on program material. In this setup they instantly show differences and flaws between various recordings and on FM radio broadcasts that stations like NPR get fed from different sources. Having the equalizer where it is now lets me easily adjust for such. The "default" EQ curve that you see in the picture is fairly aggressive but pleases my ears here. I LOVE the way the Khorns sing with that bass boost, they are so musical. My Velodyne S1500R sub is fed by the 970 preamp directly so it is not affected by the EQ settings. Need for the sub is almost extraneous given the Klipschorns' capabilities. But on some organ, symphomic, bass drum and electronic material the Khorns' lack of oomph below 40 hz. is noticeable. I have the Velodyne Xover set to its lowest 40 hz position and its bass control cracked to only about the 9:30 position. That is enough to fill in and add to where the Khorns don't go. (One bears in mind that Klipschorns were designed in an era where smooth solid response down to 40 hz was AWESOME, and technologies did not allow for capturing much if anything below that limit anyway.) The end result is that the whole system seems to just "loaf" with whatever I throw at it including the Telarc "1812" cannon shots. If anything the Outlaw gear is overbuilt, the 7075 amp has barely gotten more than just slightly warm to the touch.

You might want to take a look at Outlaw Audio (www.outlawaudio.com). I just got their model 7075 amp. Built like a brick, heavy, solid, it sounds gorgeous and appears to be a better deal pricewise than Emotiva. .

"Tom, I can't tell you how delighted I am that, at long last, you have some great tube electronics on those beauties!" Thank yu for the kind comments LarryC, but the Outlaw gear is not tube but SS. Good SS but still SS. In an ideal world I would have tubes but the third-channel aspect is a complication. Good refurbished vintage two-channel amps can be had, but a three channel? And I don't think I want to get into the complexity, cost and space requirements of three single-channel tube amps (monoblocks).

This picks up from my earlier string that asked for recommendations on multichannel electronics for a Klipschorm + Belle Klipsch three-channel audio setup. My new Outlaw Audio Model 970 tuner/preamp/processor arrived last week and their Model 7075 75 wpc amplifier arrived yesterday. I have set them up adjacent to my desk area in my 16' x 20' living room with the Khorns + Belle along the short wall off to the right of the picture. Audio-ly the Outlaw gear performs as expected. It is heavy and overbuilt (especially the amp which is a straight-wire-with-gain heavy black beast ) and exudes quality. The sound is smooth and crystal-clear and it is great now to have the center Belle sharing fully in the fun. I like classical music and with a good-quality recording, the array puts you THERE into the music. My Khorns benefit from use of an outboard Teac equalizer between the pre-and power amps to give them a needed extra shove below 60 hz. The new amp takes that in stride and the Khorns sing as well or better than they did with my beloved old Pioneer mentioned in the earlier string. But...and I'm sorta shaking my head at this... the 970 preamp seems to have a couple of design faults. There is no accessory switched power outlet, so I have to turn the equalizer on and off manually. (There is a "trigger" circuit that connects the preamp and amp with a mono miniplug cable so the amp turns on and off with the preamp.) More importantly, VCR video pass-through the receiver does not work. I tried two older VCR's with basic composite connections and the picture emerged only in black and white and at times unstably. Yet both VCRs work fine when plugged directly into the little monitor TV on my desk, and with other receivers. Go figure. I asked Outlaw tech support about this and they responded quickly but fuzzily along the lines that "Unfortunately, many older VCR's (and even some newer models) can become problematic when run through transcoding circuitry... your VCR's output may be too weak for the Model 970's transcoding circuit." Anyway, that flaw is not critical for me since I rarely watch VCR's on my desk, though it's nice to have the capability if I want to run videotape audio through the Klipschorns + Belle, which I can still do. If I do want to watch a video I can easily enough plug the VCR's video output cable by hand into the little TV. But still, "'Tis a puzzlement."

The fact that it's happened with two separate amplifiers suggests that the problem is external to the amp. This is just an guess but it may be that whatever you are inputting TO the amp may be at too high a level causing the amp to protection-shut down prematurely. Anyway, that's something to consider. Also, please triple-check your speaker cables to be sure that there is not even one small strand of wire (that may be almost invisible) shorting the connection to one or another of your speakers.

The Outlaw Model 970 tuner/processor/preamp arrived yesterday (Thursday) aftternoon via UPS. Astonishingly fast since I ordered it only a couple of days ago. It looks like a solid, beefy serious unit. I guess the Model 7075 power amp will arrive tomorrow which means I have to hang around to sign for it. Oh well, life is hard. Fortunately, I'm retired

Pleasant surprise. When I got the electronic invoice from Outlaw they charged me only $899.00 for the two units. They plugged in a holiday discount knocking 10% off the quoted $999 price, which was itself a combo price some $400 less than what they said they usually charge for the two units. So, it appears I am getting myself a quite good deal.

Update report. The decision has boiled down to whether to go with used or new. I considered the B&K used AVR receiver being offered on Audiogon for $650.00. Per the seller's description that sounded like a sweet unit, but the seller purchased it used and was to get back to me with when it was made, he thought ca. 2001. But after reflection I decided to go with new and have just pulled the trigger on an Outlaw Audio combo comprised of their Model 970 tuner/preamp/processor + Model 7075 75-wpc 7.1 power amplifier, combo price $999.00. Ouch, Merry Xmas. But hey, $1K to power a top of the line Klipschorn + Belle array that cost me $9K new in 2003-4 doesn't sound unreasonable. Or so I'm telling myself I'll post pictures of the Outlaw units after I get them. In the meanwhile, here is a current picture of the speaker array.

"P.S. Where on the eastern shore are you? I miss my home state badly during crab season. The best I can do out here (Cali-forn-ya) is a can of Phillips crab meat and grandma's recipe cakes!" I'm in Delmar MD, just outside Salisbury. Lived in Ocean City some seven years and then Ocean Pines before moving inland here in '06 to be a little safer from the eventual likes of Katrina. If you're fond of Phillips, get ahold of a book called "Empires of the Crab" by Dale Cathell. It is an affectionate biography of the Phillips family and is full of Eastern Shore-ish lore. For example, the proper pronunciation is arsters, not oysters. The book is on Amazon and the one customer review of it there is mine.

I have a dedicated audio system of two 2003 Klipschorns and a 2004 Belle center channel. Some of you may recall my saga told here of frustration with several newer home theater receivers (designed for use with powered subwoofers) in that the Khorns sound bass-shy and and thin with them. So, I am running the Khorns happiily with an old vintage 1990 Pioneer VSX-5700s Pro-Logic receiver. That beloved old receiver does a really superb, tube-like job of making those Khorns sing including in the bass. But being an obsolescent pro-logic receiver with a synthesized-derived center channel, it feeds basically only an AM-radio audio quality signal to the center Belle. So, I am in the market early next year for a new multichannel receiver that will do justice to both the Khorns and Belle. Cost hopefully not to exceed $1,000. If possible I would like a receiver that offers pre-out, main-in connections on at least the two front main channels. Presumably, a receiver good enough to offer such would fill the audio-quality bill as well, but it were still bass shy I could plug an outboard equalizer into the circuit. I will be grateful for your recommendations!

I ought to note that the Velodyne sub mentioned in my system profile is there but rarely used. You can see the sub peeking out beside the filing cabinet at the lower left of the photo. It's connected to the "B" front speaker outputs of the Pioneer. But I switch it in only for below-35-hz stuff such as deep organ pedal, some electronic music and the like. Plus, I am on the board of a local symphony orchestra (www.midatlanticsymphony.org) and I make camcorder archival recordings of some of their performances. I have a small LCD TV/monitor on my desk outside the picture to the left, so I can see the performances while listening through the Pioneer amp. The camcorder audio is remarkably clear but bass shy, and I can crank the Velodyne to compensate. Now THAT is an experience, listening to those "live" performances through the Klipschorn/Belle/Velodyne array

I was noodling on epinions.com and happened across three Klipschorn reviews there. The third, posted by a person who had often heard Khorns but did not own them, was somewhat negative. I posted a reply review to that whose text is repeated below. The pic is a current one of my array here in Delmar. (begin text) I hope you have an opportunity to own a pair of Klipschorns someday. Having kicked around with this audio hobby since the 1950's and known about "the mighty Klipschorn" by reputation since then, finally at the age of 61 I purchased a new pair of them in 2003 (list $7500, I got them for $6500) plus a new Belle Klipsch in '04 to use as a center channel. Yes, the Klipschorns are big but are surprisingly unobtrusive when snuggled back into their corners as they should be. The sight of the handsome Klipschorns + Belle arrayed together begets audiophile-reverence before even hearing them. But yes also, the Klipschorns are idiosyncratic, idiosyncratic being defined as their being merciless in showing up program- and amplifier imperfections and deficiencies. The Klipschorns are VERY amplifier sensitive. I have run them with at least four home theater receivers, three of which, the newer models, were designed to feed an external powered subwoofer. The fourth, a vintage-1990 obsolescent Pioneer Pro-Logic receiver (VSX-5700X) does not have a powered subwoofer output. To make a long story short, with the three newer amps the Klipschorns sounded lousy, very clear and precise but with no or nil bass, very thin sounding. Reaction: "I paid $6500.00 for THIS?!" But with the old Pioneer, holy cow! The Klipschorns BLOOMED. Tight pure deep effortless bass like you would not believe, and fine solid crystal-clear sound and imaging all the way up the spectrum. Same speakers, same room but what a difference. It was dramatically and instantly noticeable. Since the old Pro-Logic Pioneer drives the center channel with only a synthesized signal of approximately AM-radio quality, the Belle is underfulfilled so to speak, but still anchors the center soundstage nicely. I'm happy.