Yesfan70

On a performance issue, I like direct radiators better. Back when Dolby Pro-Logic was still the main format, dipoles (I know the SS-1s aren't true dipoles) got the job done. Fast forward to newer formats Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS. Both these formats use full bandwidth discrete channels, so to me a little bit of localization is good to have. This is where direct radiators (be it towers or bookshelfs) come in to favor. Even DPL-2 and DPL-2x use full bandwidth channels, though not discrete, for the surrounds. The ideal would be identical speakers all around. This is especially true for 5.1 SACD and/or DVD-A.

I agree about the sponsers. Talk about a looooong drawn out two hours. They could have easily still kept it at around 30 minutes and save time for all the performances. Would I buy any of their albums? Bo's maybe. If it's anything like the original he did this past Tuesday, then no. I'm not much for ballads no matter the genre. You got to admit, he did good with "Vehicle" and also "Spinning Wheel" earlier in the season. I also liked him with Skynyrd. He sounds closer to Ronnie Van Zant than Ronnie's own brother does.

Vman, If you had KG5.5s for the fronts, I would say go for it. All things considered, I would look for another pair of KLF-20s to match the fronts. I have seen them at times on Audiogon and Ebay. I have the KG5.5 and love them. I think they sound different from the KLF Series though (at least compared to the KLF-10). The 5.5 look identical to the KLF-10s, but they sound completely different. My guess is the same for the 20s. Keep the KLF-C7 for the center since it is the matching speaker for that series. If I did anything, I would look for another pair of the 20s or go for a pair of the KLF-30s and move the 20s to surround duty.

Did the salesman let you demo between the two centers? Just curious. If he didn't, then I would have had him demo them and see for yourself. As for the center, have you ever thought about using a bookshelf for center channel duty? Most bookshelfs can play lower than their center speaker counter-parts. You could get the RF-25s and then maybe two pairs of RB-25s for the surrounds, center, and back surround channel for a 6.1 setup. That sounds like a killer setup if you ask me. I also have a Denon receiver (the 3803), though I have older KG 5.5s instead of the Reference Series speakers. So when are you getting it?

I agree with both posts. Me personally I would like the KG3.5 better since it is from the same model line, but it's your system so only your ears can tell you. Try both and see what you come up with. I had a KV-2 center speaker and was blowed away by even how close the KG2.5 bookshelfs were to my 5.5s. I'm using one of them now as my center speaker (for now). A night and day difference compared to the KV-2. If you have a DVD-A/SACD player, I would try some 5.1 music as demo between the SS-1s and the 3.5s. See how that goes. For a long time I had a completely different brand and model of speaker for my surrounds until I was able to get another pair of 5.5s for the surrounds. Movies sounded much better, but 5.1 music really shined for me. I was floored.

For $2000, I would definitely go with the Reference. I would rather have a single pair of the RF-7s for that price than a full blown 5.1 Synergy setup. The Synergys are great speakers, but they are night and day compared to the Reference line. Even 3 pairs of the RB-35s (about $1800) would be great for a 6.1 setup. They are just that much more detailed of a speaker to me.

I agree with the others. To me the KLF and KG series are about as night and day as the Reference and Synergy lines. I like the idea of another pair of the 20s for the surrounds. That's what I did (though with KG5.5s) with my setup. If you have the room, go for it.

Yes. I would have no problem using them. Even the Gold Series from Radioshack would be good enough. They are good cables for the price. The ones on my DVD player I got from Best Buy. They are Acoustic Research cables. I think they were about $14/pr for the audio.

It does sound like I'm being nitpicky. Sorry about that. I don't mean to be. Honest. I'm also guessing the seller probably doesn't know either. From what I can remember, I think he bought them from a friend of his that owned a stereo shop. I had called Klipsch about the replacement woofer and the info I got was there was a difference between the stock woofer and the ones in my 4.5s due the the 4.5 using a single woofer vs. the dual woofer design of the 5.5/5.2. Because of this, I'm wondering if the frequencies below the crossover point (1600Hz) will be -3dB lower than what it should be due to the different woofer and stock crossover. I do apologize if I'm coming across as being anal retentive. If it helps, I can use one of the woofers to replace the shot woofer in one of my extra KG5.5. I more or less bought the 4.5s for parts anyways for my center speaker project, so at least one of my KG5.5 will be repaired. That is the bright side I have been looking at. Thought about selling that pair to have more room in the back of my basement anyways and maybe using the 2.5s as the back surrounds instead of upstairs. I haven't had a chance to really sit down and listen to the 4.5s. I just gave them enough time to see if they worked or not. Appreciate the comments and the help you all have given me in my other posts. Thanks a bunch.

One of my favorites is Porcupine Tree's album In Absentia. The DVD-A of Yes' Fragile is good too. Some others: Miles Davis - Best of the Quintet 1965-68 John Coltrane - Blue Train Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (SACD) Galactic - We Love 'Em Tonight, Live at Tipitina's I have others, but these are just off the top of my head.

Door number 3 does look more tempting, but like you said, it would be expensive. I don't think I can do that. I emailed the seller last night. He did mention at the time of the sale that he would be out of town till June the 12th. I think I'm going to ask for a refund on the 4.5s. In the meantime, can anyone tell me the difference between the KG5.2 woofer and the KG5.5 woofer? My center speaker will be using the parts from a 4.5, so how close are they to the stock woofer and which one should I use?

Remember the KG4.5s and KG2.5s I told you I got from Ebay? Well for some stupid reason I thought I would go ahead and take them apart and see what the drivers were and if they are ok. If I remember correctly, the 4.5s uses a single K-1005-K 10" woofer and the K-85-K 1" tweeter (same as the 5.5). I opened them up and the tweeters are right, but one speaker has the K-1023-K woofer (what the KG5.5s have) and the other is a K-1001-K (what the KG5.2 have). Needless to say, I wasn't happy and I double checked the KG2.5 bookshelfs and ("whew") they are right. So here is my situation since I mainly bought these speakers to use as parts for my custom center speaker. 1) I could keep them and use the K-1023-K woofer for one of my spare 5.5s. That speaker has a bad woofer anyways, so one of my problems would be solved. Then depending on how close in timbre the K-1001-K is to the K-1005K woofer, just use that for my center until I could find one or order a new one from Klipsch (about $100 ea.). That would be the only part I would have to try to find since I have everything else I need. 2) Send the 4.5s back to the seller and have him reimburse me for those speakers. I do plan on calling him (if he isn't already out of town). I will keep the KG2.5 regardless. The bad thing is, I would have to find another pair of 4.5 for the parts I need (tweeter, crossover, etc.), so it would be like starting all over again for me. This would be easier if I hadn't started my center speaker project. All I have left to do on it is glue the front/back panels, veneer the cabinet, and install the electronics. I have made a lot of progress with it in the past few weeks. 3) Sell it all and just say "the hell with it" and get 3 pairs of RB-35s. All my speakers would match. They would be brand new with a warranty. Problem solved. This really just bums me out.

I might be wrong, but I'm thinking you will be alright if your longest run is 18ft. I think the max feet for 16awg is 25ft or 50ft. Can't remember.

I would skimp on the center channel then if your budget is limited. I think the RB-35 would be better suited since it is the closest to the RF-35 as you could get. Then just put its mate for the surround back channel. I think the RS-35s would be alright, but I like the ideal of having identical speakers for all the channels. If you can't get identical speakers, then go with a bookshelf with the same size drivers. With todays formats like DTS and DD where all the channels are full range (minus the "LFE" or ".1" since that's a limited bandwidth channel for the subwoofer) I like the ideal of identical speakers. Even Dolby Pro-Logic II benefits from this since it also has full bandwidth surround channels, though not discrete like DD and DTS. You do want some localization from those channels. Gunshots whizzing by you, spaceship flybys, etc. are a good example. Think about it this way. You use identical speakers for stereo, then why not for a full 5.1 discrete setup? This is especially true of multichannel music formats like SACD and DVD-Audio.

I'm usually always at the Sound & Vision forums. The past couple of weeks I have been dividing my time between S&V, here, and the DIYAudio forums.

Since your L&R surrounds are the RB-35s, I would also go with that for your back surround channel. That's what I would do if I didn't have the room/budget to keep everything identical. I noticed in your plans, that it shows a 6 channel system. If you are going to use one speaker, instead of two, for the back surround channel I would get this for your system: RF-35 for the fronts one pair of RB-35 for the surrounds. a second pair of RB-35 for the center and back surround channels. To me, I think I would prefer a vertical oriented speaker like a bookshelf. Just angle it down toward the listening position like you would the other three surrounds. Hope this helps.

I went and picked up a can of primer and a can of textured flat black. I painted a couple of scrap pieces of MDF I had and I'm thinking this might be what I'm looking for. I'll probably try and get some finer sandpaper (400 grit?) too since the finest I have is 220 grit. For that fine of a grit would you still use a palm sander, or is doing it by hand a more preferred method?

What surprises me most is how musical the bookshelf KGs can sound. They are a great speaker (then and now) for the money. Had I know then what I know now, I probably would have went with the KG2.5 back then in '94 when I bought my 5.5s to save on some money for a couple of subs.

There was recently an auction for a complete Klipsch speaker system (pr of 4.5, pr of 2.5, and a SW10-II sub) and a Sony receiver. I had emailed the seller about "pieceing it out" if the reserve wasn't met. Lucky for me, it didn't. After exchanging emails and sending off my payment, I finally got the speakers in (minus the sub and receiver). I bought a pair of KG4.5s and a pair of KG2.5s to use in a future upstairs system. The 4.5s sound very close to my KG5.5, but I was really suprised at how good the 2.5s sound. They sound much closer to my mains than my KV-2 center (I'm using one of the 2.5s, temporarily, as a center speaker). The guy I bought them from seems to be a very cool person. He double boxed the speakers and even gave me his number if I need to know more info (which I did). He even called to let me know when he got the money order and when the speakers shipped, along with giving me the tracking numbers. Pretty cool huh. The only thing I don't like about them (if I have to be picky), is the finish is black instead of medium oak like my other speakers. Besides that, they are perfect. I also hope that the money I have in my custom center pays off. The 2.5s are closer to my mains than I thought. The 4.5s/5.5s of course have it as far as bass extension goes, but they are very close in the mid to higher frequencies. Very surprising since the 2.5s are too small for the use of the Tractrix horn like the others. I think if one were on a limited budget, 3 pairs of KG2.5s and a sub (or two) would be a great sounding bang for the buck home theater.

---------------- On 5/12/2005 4:15:31 PM cueman wrote: Thanks !! I am proud of them. But I am taking a break on speakers for a while. I have a lot of hours into these. A lot of hours !! ---------------- If those speakers sound as good as they look (which I'm sure they do), you will have even more hours sitting in front of them listening to your favorite tunes. That's a great looking pair of La Scalas.

Some awesome looking speakers Cue. Thanks for sharing the pics.

Why not just use a single cable instead of just trying to figure out a way to run one end of the Y-Cable? I would rather do that than have an unplugged end dangling about. Just take a single cable (a extra composite video cable laying around would work) and run it from your receiver's sub output to either the left or right input on your sub. The only other thing you would have to do is bump the sub's level up by 3dB. If you ask me, I would just leave it like it is. A Y-cable (or Y-Adapter, which is what I use) has it's advantages especially if your sub is the kind with the auto signal detect (automatically switches on when it detects a signal from the receiver's sub output). Because of the higher gain (3dB) due to the use of a splitter, your sub might not cut off/on during very quiet passages of a movie. Since you already have the Y-cable, just leave it as is and enjoy. Money saved.

What about Outlaw's new 990 pre/pro? That would solve all, if not most, of his problems. I think it lists for under a grand. For the amps, I would check out places like audiogon.com. There's some deals to be had, depending on what your looking for.

Since you already have Reference speakers up front, I would stick with the same model line. Another pair of RF-35s should do nicely. If not, then I would look at the RB-35s.

---------------- On 5/17/2005 7:28:03 PM bigdnfay wrote: I am assuming the wood you are finishing is raw..... ---------------- The cabinet is made out of 3/4" MDF. Sorry I didn't mention that in my first post.