heresy2guy

I recall those old, black & white ads fondly; one of my favorites was for the Heresy II.

I love reading any and all literature/test results/reviews on the older Klipsch models so this is certainly an appreciated post - thanks! -H2G PS - I had no trouble reading it; perhaps those who do simply need to make the image a little larger (or at least make sure you're zooming to 100%).

Thanks for the input, guys! -H2G

Yes, a C/W III, as you can tell by the woofer being moved up more centrally on the motorboard, and Heresey III as you can see from the arch in the riser.And, yes, they share the same tweet, mid, and MR horn, unlike the Cornwall II. Larry, I've read elsewhere on another thread that the new CIII and HIII tweets are of a tractrix design but they don't seem to look it from the pic I saw...can you confirm either way? Did anybody at Klipsch happen to mention sensitivity numbers for the new CIII and HIII? Thanks, -H2G

Great pics...thanks for sharing. Was that in fact a Cornwall III and a Heresy III alongside the La Scalas?? If so, it looks like they share the same mids/tweets, as per the original Cornwall & Heresy and quite unlike the Cornwall II & Heresy II. -H2G

I wasn't there for this little soire but from what I'm reading in this post, it seems like more people chose speaker "A" over speaker "B" due to a better presentation of the midrange frequencies and a more "live," "right-there" sound. Speaker "A" has since been revealed to be a Cornwall III while speaker "B" was an RF-7. Like I said before, it's all about the "magic" that is the midrange horn; a cone simply can't match a horn for those crucial midrange frequencies. Long live the horn!!! -H2G

Frankly, I can't see how the Tangent cabinets could have been any worse off then the then soon-to-be-released KLF series that had real wood veneers but, as history as proven, were apt to literally fall apart at the seams. Still, vinyl does seem a bit cheesey but the price was sure right and the sound - well, although I've yet to hear one, they seem like pure Heresy II clones that could drop all the 35hz, so I'd probably find myself liking them tremendously. They seem to be exceptionally rare speakers; I've yet to see a 400/500 model on the used market and I've been searching the web like crazy. -H2G

Heck Dean, for the purposes of this forum, "more" bass, to me, means just that - more bass from a speaker. I'd assume that most folks here would equate that term (i.e. a Cornwall has "more bass" then a Heresy) to mean that a given speaker goes lower and therefore gives more bass. But I'm not gonna get sucked into playing "lawyer" and arguing as to what everybody's definition of "definition" is, you know what I mean?? [] Suffice it to say...I took it all at face-value, as should be expected, regardless as to the type of witchcraft employed to make the Heresey appear bassier. Rob - I can't believe that the 400 & 500 series Tangents were less costly then the Heresy - amazing, isn't it?! It also brings to mind the question as to whether or not the Forte II was worth the stiff increase in cost over the Tangents? I can't seem to recall any conversation here on the 400/500 Tangent line nor have I ever heard one so I can't really say. I did take a look on Ebay, Audiogon, Craigslist, and the general web-at-large and basically came up empty; I can only surmise therefore that they're pretty rare speakers. I'll try and see about jumping on a pair should the opportunity ever present itself. Dr. Who - I agree that passive radiators can throw a monkey wrench into speaker placement - my KG4s tend to get very boomy indeed when place closer then about 6 to 9 inches or so to the wall; guess you can blame it on the rear-firing PR, just like you said. -H2G

For that price, I was ready to jump into my old Volvo wagon and drive the 7 hours up to San Fran for them this weekend. Of course, I'd have the wife to deal thereafter....LOL. -H2G

From San Fran's Craigslist: SOLD - Klipsch Cornwall Floor Speakser (pair) - $100 (richmond / seacliff) Reply to: anon-96848623@craigslist.org Date: 2005-09-11, 12:57PM PDT Good condition, oak finish -- could benefit from refinishing but only minor scratches/dings. We're moving, and need to downsize... SORRY -- these have been sold already. no -- it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests 96848623

PS - Don't forget the Tangent 500: http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=155&s=specs It goes 3db lower then then 400 probably due to the passive radiator... Tangent 500 Specifications FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 35Hz-20kHz±3dB SENSITIVITY: 97dB @ 1watt/1meter POWER HANDLING: 150 watts maximum continuous (750 watts peak) NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms ENCLOSURE TYPE: Bass reflex via passive radiator DRIVE COMPONENTS: Three-way system using one 1" (2.54cm) phenolic diaphragm compression driver tweeter with a 90°x40° Exponential horn, one 1.5" (3.81cm) phenolic diaphragm compression driver midrange with a 90°x40° Exponential horn, one 12" (30.48cm) front-firing, poly cone woofer and one 12" (30.48cm) front-firing, fiber-composite cone passive radiator TWEETER: K-76-K 1" (2.54cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver HIGH FREQUENCY HORN: 90°x40° Exponential Horn HF CROSSOVER: 6000Hz MIDRANGE: K-53-K 1.5" (3.81cm) Phenolic diaphragm compression driver MID FREQUENCY HORN: 90°x40° Exponential Horn MF CROSSOVER: 700Hz WOOFER: K-24-K 12" (30.48cm) Poly cone active / KD-13 12" (30.48cm) Fiber-composite cone passive DIMENSIONS: 40.5" (102.9cm) x 15.5" (39.4cm) x 14.6" (37.1cm) WEIGHT: 51 lbs. (23.2kg) ENCLOSURE MATERIAL: Medium density fiberboard construction (MDF) FINISHES: Matte-finish Black vinyl BUILT FROM: 1991 BUILT TO: 1993

Rob, The Fortes (both 1 and 2) used passive radiators in lieu of regular porting; perhaps this might have helped lower the bass reponse of the Forte?? My KG-4s are substantially smaller then the Fortes but they dig down to 38hz, again, IMHO, due to the passive radiator. Klipsch was very big on passive radiators for at least decade or so and then they simply went to regular porting instead. I'd like to get a look at the MSRP of the Tangent line, so if you can dig up any old data, by all means feel free to post it! Thanks, H2G

Dr. Who, I forgot all about the Tangent line...perhaps that's part of the problem since most people tend to do just the same; for some reason, it seems like a forgettable product despite the 400 which is a properly done Heresy IMHO. Perhaps it was slow-selling (if in fact it was?) because of the already-established Forte model? It's hard for me to say because I don't know what the typical selling price was for the 400 and that would certainly dictate it's other competitors within the Klipsch lineup. If priced alongside the Forte, that could have been the problem right off the bat. On the other hand, maybe Klipsch didn't see the logic in having what would amount to basically two Forte-type, similarly priced speakers in their lineup? I really don't know... As for the Fortes, I'd keep them as-is seeing how they drop all the way to 32hz. I personally don;t care much for subs when listening to music and the Forte goes low enough so that with the exception of pipe organ music or that infamous live cannon blast on that one, often-cited 1812 overture, I'm not really missing much. Subs tend to sound boomy to me and most are not very musical; good, musical, non-boomy subs tend to be pretty expensive and upwards of nearly 4 figures so it makes no sense for somebody with speakers like we've been talking about to purchase such a sub due to the price discrepancies. Insofar as home theater is concerned, a sub here is a must-have; car explosions and T.Rex bellowing calls for this sort of boomy stuff but I agree with others on this board [Michael (Colterphoto1) comes immediately to mind] that a sub really isn't my cup of tea when listening to music. Kudos for pointing out the Tangent 400 though - thanks! -H2G

Guys, I'm aware of the origin of the Heresy model but I was referring to why PWK didn't "develope" (i.e. port) the Heresy after it became plainfully obvious that the model was the bread & butter of the entire Klipsch lineup. The Heresy's oldest and most poignant complaint is it's lack of low end. I'm saying that PWK left it like that for a reason that had nothing to do with it's original development but rather due to it's placement in the Klipsch lineup. "Fixing" a Heresy by porting it would have bumped it up to close to the Cornwall in terms of performance and sound and then you would have run into the price issues I mentioned in my earlier email. Sure, the Heresy was designed as a "filler" speaker between Khorns but when it took off on it's own (no doubt this occured mainly based on it's low price - it was the most affordable Klipsch then, was it not?) the Heresy wasn't evolved into "more" of a speaker (i.e complete stand-alone) other then Klipsch taking it's bass down to what they must have deemed was an acceptable level for such an entry level product. Sure, it had a few driver and x-over changes but it's glaring shortcoming (low bass) was intentionally left alone and unaided in my opinion. I don't know what the original Heresy stooped to (100hz maybe?) but that would have made it a tough sell as a stand alone speaker. By dropping it to 50hz they sold it as a stand alone product that was just a little bass shy as opposed to being basically bass absent. To be perfectly honest, if somebody was looking to purchase a pair of Heresy II speakers (as opposed to Heresy I) I would have to recommend that they listen to the Fortes if given the chance since they share the same squawker, have a nearly identical tweeter, and deliver tons more bass. Like others have said before me, a Forte is like a Heresy II on steroids. I can't overstate the impact of running my KG4s alongside my Heresy IIs. The added bass of the KG4s simply make you shake your head in amazement as to what you've been missing solely with the Heresy IIs alone. A sub can fix your Heresy II woes but simply buying a Forte seems like an easier and cheaper solution. The Heresy I has different mid and high drivers (like others have stated, the same as in the Khorn, LS, Belles, and Cornwall) and to my ears and in my experience, a Heresy I sounds different then a Heresy II so I can't really compare a Heresy I to, say, a Forte, like I can a Heresy II to a Forte. If I could do it all over again, I'd probably buy a pair of Fortes over Heresy IIs simply because the Fortes give you everything the Heresy IIs do and more. I spent $818 on my birch Heresy IIs back in the summer of '91. I could have gotten Fortes for about $1098 to $1198 if memory serves. In retrospect, it would have been better to have spent the extra $200 to $300 and have gotten the Fortes. Even today, in the used market, I'd recommed a pair of $550 Fortes over a pair of $400 Heresy IIs without any reservations whatsoever. A Heresy I is a different animal to me so that's another story and a personal one at that. In many ways, it seems like Klipsch did, in fact, eventually "fix" the Heresy simply by adding the Forte to it's lineup. On another note, I'd like to say thanks to Tom for the link in the above email. It provided a ton of reading material like he said. It seems like the old Altecs or JBLs weren't nearly as efficient as the Khorn but I did notice and did like the fact that the Altecs crossed their two-way systems over at around 500-800hz so that their single horn could deliver the mids and the highs and simply left the cone for what it did best - deliver the bass. The JBL drivers of the 70s/80s with their 5" cone midranges seemed somewhat anti-climatic to me for some reason. I'll take a midrange compression driver mated to a horn any day over a regular 5" midrange cone. I'm sure JBL made awesome drivers but I'd rather have a horn. Still, an entertaining and informative read. When I was around 13 or so (back in '85) my friend and I used to marvel at his father's JBL L40s which he purchased in the late 70s. They were a two-way design with a 10" woofer and a 1 inch (?) dome tweeter. Not extactly my cup of tea now, but they were en-vogue to me back then. I saw them on the JBL page in the link you gave me Tom - I think I saw them rated there at only 87db efficiency. Holy smoke! No wonder my friend's father was driving them with a 100-plus watt per channel Kenwood. [] Made for good memories! [] -H2G

Marty maybe it's time for an new set of twins? Hildegard and Nurse Kratchet? At least they'd stay home and not go out with their uncles.[] Rick Okay...I'll bite - So who's the Bull Goose Loony of this here board?! [] (I'm assuming you meant Nurse "Ratched" (aka "Big Nurse" & "Mother Ratched") from Kesey's novel One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?)

Tom - I'm not privy to those companies to which you've referred; clue me in please. -H2G

Find a Saab 900 to borrow... (2 door hatch) at least you have your priorities in order! (krispykoilz, I did hear once, everyone has a twin []) My 240 Volvo wagon swallowed two La Scalas easily with enough room left over for a few Heresies. -H2G

I agree with Dean on the La Scala II's looks - they're mighty fine in my opinion. -H2G

I agree with Craig on this one. I think the La Scala II looks pretty good; in fact, I think it looks better then Belle, particularly when you consider that you would have to give up the bigger La Scala squawker in order to have a Belle. One thing I really like about the La Scala II is how they changed the grain on the sides to run vertically now instead of horizontally like on the the original La Scala; makes 'em look a lot prettier, especially with the new top section. No...I'm afraid I can't in all honesty say that I'll miss the Belle personally speaking, but I do understand and appreciate its historical significance so on that note I can say that I am a bit saddened to see it go. -H2G

For what it's worth, I think the reason PWK didn't port the Heresy is because he didn't want it to encroach onto the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Cornwall's turf. The Heresy was, for the longest time, the entry-level product in what's now referred to as the Heritage lineup and as Andy's mentioned many times before (HDBRbuilder) it was the Heresy that literally kept Klipsch & Associates afloat. If PWK were to port the Heresy and give it a better woofer, then it would have elevated the little Heresy to a higher level, and what was next in line - the Cornwall. Now, even a ported, "bassier" Heresy wouldn't be a match for a Cornwall per se, but it would have moved the Heresy closer in terms of specs to the Cornwall and I would imagine people might have found it more difficult to ante-up the extra bucks for the Cornwalls. In other words, he priced the Heresies and Cornwalls according to their performance levels; if you bring the Heresies up a notch but leave the Cornwalls alone, then you'd have to adjust the prices on both models so one won't either eat into or completely cannibalize the other line. Insofar as Klipsch being "cheap" with their parts and construction, I personally think that the company, as a whole, provides a much "cheaper" product today (what with plastic & MDF galore along with offshore construction and the fact that their Synergy and Reference lines are two-ways which reduces the cost of the product by not having to include a midrange squawker thereby simplifying the crossovers) then they did when PWK was at the con. My biggest complaint about Klipsch really focuses on how their newer products (synergy and reference) are two-way designs that use a cone to produce the midrange. To my knowledge, a horn is a more efficient device for producing the midrange then a cone and we all know Klipsch's Law about efficiency and distortion. If a horn is more efficient then a cone then why use a cone like they do on the synergy and reference? Maybe it was to cut costs?? Maybe it was to change the Klipsch sound so as to not "offend" so many audiophiles and magazine authors which would no doubt result in less Klipsch-bashing and probably help increase sales?? Maybe it was a combination of the two??? At any rate, I probably wouldn't complain at all if they stuck with the two-way design but designed/used a horn with a crossover point low enough so that it could handle from about 400-700hz all the way up to 20khz, which is a heck of a lot different then using one from 2.5khz up to 20khz like they do now. Just my take and opinion, of course... -H2G

Thanks to Tom & Dennis for chiming in here; so I guess the Heresy III *must* be less efficient then if it is to have *substantially* more bass while keeping the same sized cabinet and sealed enclosure. If retaining cabinet size was a priority, perhaps simply porting it along with the changing of the woofers would have given a satisfactory bass increase without sacrificing efficiency? Gonna have to wait until the official specs are released I guess.... -H2G

Same cabinet size and enclosure (i.e. sealed) yet more bass simply due to a new woofer??? How low are they claiming the Heresy will go now? For Trey to say that the Heresy now "has bass" would imply to me that it'll drop well into the low to mid 40HZs. All this simply by swapping woofers? It's hard for me to believe, but if true, then why has it taken them so long to do it??

"Low bass is only good if it is musical. The CW bass is not only a very smooth response, but dynamic (SLAM) as well" - Michael ________________________ Beautifully stated....touche! -H2G

I couldn't have said it better myself.

They went out of style about 21 years ago, unless you do a lot of yachting. [] One of the best, cheapest shoe sotres near me carries Sperrys. They are still a great comfortable shoe. I agree - one of the best, bang-for-the-buck shoes around. They can get wet, they're light and allow your feet to breath, and actually look better with age. I wear mine all year around because of where I live and I still manage to get about 5 years out of them before the leather dries out due to too much salt water and cracks...generally happens around the base of the shoe, where it's attached to the sole. As for the Cornwalls, I say "Go for them...you won't regret it sonically speaking." But beware, they're pretty damn big and will be a pain to move into and out of a college dorm. Besides that, nice things in college dorms don't tend to stay all too nice for too long. It might make more sense to simply get Heresys - they've got a small footprint for easy postioning (dorm rooms aren't exactly palatial), are easy to move by yourself, and put out more sound then you'll ever need given that the space you'll be filling basically amounts to just a bedroom. Remember that the larger Klipsch need more room to, ahem - breeeeeath in order to sound their best. Maybe it's just me but Heresys seem almost tailor-made for a dorm room. Just my opinion, of course...