formica

It's a great centre channel... and should prove a VERY close match to your mains. ---------------- On 3/4/2003 2:09:50 PM STL wrote: I wired each of the two pairs of woofers in series then wired them in parallel to get one single 4 ohm load (nominal, of course). The KG4.2 LP section of the crossover is expecting one 4 ohm (nomimal) 10" woofer so this contrived 4 ohm load is in the ballpark. I do understand the impedance graph of my 4 woofers wired together would not look the same as that single 10" woofer, but I figure this is a good starting point. ---------------- I was considering a similar "creation" base on a heresy high and mid range horns, crossover, and some smaller woofers... based on the same assumptions you mentioned above as well as my opinion that the lower frequencies are less definitive of a speakers characteristics (longer wavelength therefore less directional dispersion). I curious to your planned tweeking and long term impressions of it's performace versus your mains... Another great example DIY...

Nice post Gil... reminds me of Physics 101... m00n, I think the key to understanding the port/PassiveRadiator is the flipping of the phase as Gil put it... ---------------- My favorite analogy for the system is a paddle board toy... at low amplitudes you can move the paddle up and down at a resonant frequency and the ball (mass of air in the pipe) moves out of phase with the paddle motion. Try it if you can. ---------------- So the energy of the port is added to the one produced by the woofer.

---------------- On 3/2/2003 7:02:45 PM marksdad wrote: now there is some rocking lfe, those you can feel in your chest when my corns kick ---------------- I think michaelstano is refering to the LFE channel and not just to the bass... and you would be hearing LFE in your KSW sub rather than in your cornwalls... just a note... Rob B.

---------------- On 3/3/2003 1:03:33 PM m00n wrote: So does the passive radiator produce sound? I kinda understand that a port will allow air to flow in and out of an encloser, but what is it about the radiator that achieves the same affect. Looking at it, it looks to me as though it's another speaker without the magnet and all that. Seems to me all it would do is move back and forth with no air coming in or out of the box ---------------- Actually the speaker, PR and the vent all move air to create sound... so in a way the all act similarly. In a very "summarized" way, the speaker's tuning frequency is defined by it's motor/cone, the PR by it's mass, and the port by it's length. The fact from where the air originates from isn't the defining factor of the performance. It's then up to the designer to try to match and adjust these characteristics to create the desired frequency response curve. Notice I said DESIRED frequency response curve, as many subs which people find "musical" aren't actually flat, but have an increased output in the midbass region. It's the punch people refer too... although not necessarily accurate. I believe (personal opinion here) that a good sub is good for both music or HT. Later... Rob B

Just in case you arent familiar with the RadioShack meter... it is simply a SPL Meter with built in preamp. When you use this with a test tone CD (single frequency sine waves) you can verify your systems response at each of the frequencies. You setup the Radio Shack SPL Meter in the listening position, play the tones... record the SPL readings... plot them... and it is you room response. The RS SPL meter is somewhat inaccurate but can be compensated for using a series of corrections at different frequencies. You can purchase the meter for 34$ here: http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F002%5F003%5F018%5F000&product%5Fid=33%2D2050 On the other hand, horonzaks equipment is much more accurate but is also quite a bit more expensive.

Thanks!! I've bookmarked it...

You hear so many people talk about theatre subs versus music subs when in reality it's more of a preference in the response curve. That is a great post colin... couldn't have said it better!

Dating the old Klipsch speakers is a common question as it helps potential buyers know a little history on the items we'd like to buy. I noticed the pattern is easy to see with the exception of several items... so i was wondering if someone could clarify this for me, as well as tell me if I understood correctly? As I've seen for the 70's Heritage series up to 1984 the numbers were: 11X555 - where the first two digits are the week of manufacture (here it would be the 11 week) - the letter would be the year (here X = 1982) - and the last three numbers are the sequential production number (here is set 555) but the years I noticed mentioned include: P = 76 Q = R = 77 S = 78 T = 79 U = V = W = X = 82 Y = 83 Z = 84 What happened to Q ? and which of the U, V, W doesn't exist? Then it seems in 1985 they started the new method which was: 8611555 - where the first two digits would be the year of manufacture (here = 1986) - the second two digits are the week of manufacture (here it would be the 11 week) - and the last three numbers are the sequential production number (here is set 555) I'm just curious if I understood it correctly, so next time I check out a set I'll know off the bat what the guy is selling (and if he's telling the truth about the set he bought new in 86 but has the letter P in the serial ... ) Thanks... Rob B.

I second the "jbl synthesis ultra home theatre" but can i say that on a klipsch forum?? Not that i would mind a heritage system with an acoustician (standard with the synthesis system). Ohhh... and a well shaped room and the obvious sloped floor with VERY comfortable seats !!

Unfortunately I dont have that disk, so I cant say if the studio left out the LFE channel or if its your player... but Bjorks Vespertine DVDA does have a LFE which works without correction on my Panasonic RP82. I believe that DVDA will only send the sounds recorded on the LFE to the subwoofer unlike CDs where preamp will send frequency below the crossover point to the sub... so if the studio left it out, you have very little control.

Been surfing around for taming room resonance (subwoofer only), and I was wondering which parametric EQ and room measurement tools would work best on a tight budget? Ive looked into the Radio Shack SPL Meter Model 33-2050 as well as the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Model 1124P... Im afraid to go with a 1/3 octave EQ for the lack of flexibility like the Behringer Ultracurve Pro 8024 Digital Equalizer that conveniently has a real-time analyser built in... but am I justified? What have you guys been using? Im just thinking out loud... Rob PS: reference articles: http://www27.brinkster.com/jmag999/ http://www.snapbug.ws/bfd.htm http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0101/behringer8024.htm

---------------- On 2/9/2003 11:43:32 PM j-malotky wrote: I like the angle pointing downward to your listening posititon. ---------------- ditto... it's very nice. Rob

ohh... forgot to ask if you've seen the comparision at http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html as it's got the KSW, RSW, velo-HGS, SVS-CS Ultra, etc... it might not be the PCi but it's close

theEAR has owned both of these as well as many others. He listed several of his favorites in the following post: http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=29860&sessionID={D7ADE293-51C4-43F6-BB9E-C8583315B798} but both are in the same "catagory"... i guess you can try pinging him... I haven't heard any of the SVS subs so i can't really say... later... Rob

Did you get that wire passed yet RJB? Just noticed your post and wanted to mention that there are VERY-long drill bits for this purpose... you make the hole for your jack plate, slide the bit up your wall... and drill into the top plate from below. The bit is very flexible... and has a hole at the chuck end to attach wire into it to pull it through the wall. I have a 6 foot one at home, but they do come in longer lengths. Let us know how it turned out... Rob B.

---------------- On 2/10/2003 12:21:18 PM Juba310 wrote: lol, nice curtains ---------------- I saw them on Martha-Stewart ... i think she called them celulose privacy screens... just teasing... nice heritage setup.. wanna share?

You forgot to mention one important thing... budget!! A receiver will definitely help, but maybe you should look at a slightly higher end used unit, like a Rotel, NAD, etc... as two channel wont be too expensive. Speakers will depend on how much you want to spend and where you live... as here in Canada, its hard to beat Paradigm and PSB for quality / value... As for a dream system" I'd go with: Creative Labs SoundBlaster Audigy2 Platinum Rotel RMB-1075 Klipsch Klipschorn Fronts Klipsch Heresy II Centre Klipsch Heresy II Surrounds SVS Dual CS-Ultra Package subwoofers But I doubt many people would put that much into a PC audio...

Actually banden was right about not placing the speakers in a corner... although i wouldn't call it a "lack of dispersion". Side walls will create pretty pronounced accoustic reflections and your speakers will sound bright... as he mentioned, either moving them away from the wall or "toe in" will help. enjoy your purchases... Rob B. PS; "direct radiating" would be a better discription of horn speakers i think

LOL... like theEAR, i follow the arrow from pre-amp to the sub, but doubt i'd ever hear a difference if someone flipped it on me...

lol... seems to be popular typo here... i was beginning to think it was the spell checker... Rob B. *** All your base are belong to us ***

The Academy would be similar, but not exactly the same either as it actually uses the same components as the Hersey II... and finding one of those is like finding gold as I believe it was the only centre speaker made in the heritage line. Splitting a pair of herseys would be more accurate, but dont forget that it isnt a shielded unit, and may cause some distortion (to the tv image) if placed next to the a CRT TV screen.

Congratulations on your purchase/order matt... which model did you finally go for? Ironically I wrote SVS more or less at the same time to see which model they recommended for me, and about their shipping policies to Canada. I didnt place an order yet as Im still digesting the whole thing. Like you said in your other post, its a lot of money to drop on a sub unseen/unheard... and in my case with the exchange and brokerage the final bill is double the list price (in cnd$ vs US$) As much as measurements can tell you the general characteristics of a component, I think the difference between a good speaker and a great one is often a question of personal taste and is read in-between the lines. Tube amps are a good example of this... their response may or may not be the flattest, but most people like their sound. Dr. Floyd Toole from the National Research Council in Canada studied this theory for years, and produced several documents on this including Listening TestsTurning Opinion into Fact, but I have never seen the document myself. I dont remember if you mentioned if you already had a sub, or moving up from none? Tell us what you think once it arrives... Undecided... Rob B.

Thanks for the link gtDark, but I checked out the www.audioenvy.com web site and like you I got nothing for 500 miles around my area; Montreal, Canada... guess they dont have too many takers yet... If Id go DIY it would probably be an Adire Sono-sub which is tried and true and quite easy to build... but I remember reading in a forum about how the SVS subs were fine tuned after repeated testing and measurements and I wonder if this could give it an edge to make it worth the extra $. Is the fine-tuning that was referred to have anything to do with some kind of built in equalization? I definitely agree with colin on that a truly musical sub should have a flat response and dig deep, without the mid-bass peek...

The X-30 was originally intended for the Paradigm reference series subwoofers (servo 15) which have only a passive amplifier built in... and is basically an active crossover (line level)... and like the previous post mentioned it also makes adjusting the sub easier... Check Paradigm info page at http://www.paradigm.ca/Website/SiteParadigmProduct/ParadigmModels/HighPassSWControlUnits/ControlUnit_Specs.htm

I definitely agree with the part about listening and choosing but Im somewhat in a similar dilemma, as the SVSs have been getting rave reviews, but you cant really go and give them a listen. Im even more curious on how they compare to my 12 Energy... and if its even worth the upgrade (75% music, 25% movies). Another option Ive been looking at is DIY, but there again, you dont know until youre finished... and at least with the SVS, I could resell it. Reading all the opinions and specs in the world will never tell me if Ill like the sound. Enjoying the music... Rob B.