DrWho Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 The F113 is a joke relying on the image that something expensive must be better. A higher distortion driver might sound like it has "more" bass, but that can only be said for someone that can't differentiate between distortion and accurate reproduction of the source material. Sure, there is some merit to someone claiming they prefer the sound of distortion, but I personally grow tired of putting the same hot-sauce on everything all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Jay, Your "arguments" have nothing to do with subwoofer driver design or performance. Just a cheap shot aimed to discredit those who set the standard for subwoofer driver performance. Lame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 DocWHO?, The f113 is a joke! You just made a good one. The distortion you speak of is very low at levels 99.9% of users listen to any material. You want to see the reference in low distortion sub bass,take a look at TC Sounds LMS-Ultra/5400 in sealed or ported(PR) configurations. They blow the little K subs out of the test field.Look at actual tests performed on the HTS forum by a very trusted memeber who relies on measuring not small talk. And tell me the R line from K can even begin to match the distortion,output and linearity. [8-|] Also the f113 that you consider a joke stands among the finest subs most that make the vast majority of K subs look like mass market gear. A joke,yes you are a good joker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 The distortion from the F113 is outrageous in all the measurements I've seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 OUTRAGEOUS! [] Must be so outrageous people are outraged! [8-|] You should become a stand up comic one day.You would beat Seinfeld, not even in question. So ,Jay said both Thilo and Wiggins are using hidden passages to move around the city. What is next ? We learn from Jay they worked for GM(General Mediocre)and assemble seatbelts that snap at 5 miles per hour ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Jay, Your "arguments" have nothing to do with subwoofer driver design or performance. Just a cheap shot aimed to discredit those who set the standard for subwoofer driver performance. Lame oh yes the tumult II was absolutely on t/s parameters from chile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay481985 Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Atleast Thilo produced subwoofers that was verified by klippel to be honest specs. Wiggins was way off, so off that no one brought from him anymore and his trust is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 30, 2009 Share Posted March 30, 2009 Here's the F113: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8152-jl-audio-fathom-f113-new.html Here's the LMS with two 18" passives:http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8156-diy-tc-sounds-lms-5400-18-2x18-page-ranking-200l-new.html Each sweep is a 5dB increment starting at 90dB measured in half space at I believe 1m. Sadlywe don't have a similar distortion measurement from the RT-12d in asimilar scenario. It's also interesting to note just how much smootherthe frequency response of the RT-12d is...almost as if the Klipschengineers were taking the corner placement scenario into account(imagine that). I have no doubt that the RT-12d will have lowerdistortion, dig just as low (if not lower) and is capable of more SPL(compared to the F113). Trey, any chance of doing a similar run of measurements to thoseposted in these links? I'd love to see how things stackup in a straightup comparison....it always seems like Klipsch gets left outta thesecomparisons. I'd be willing to come down and carry the heavy stuff justto find out. I also just wanted to mention that a sliding highpass filter is not a good thing - it's a preventative measure for adriver that doesn't have enough displacement. I would only considerusing the F113 above 40Hz, but then my mains dig that low and have just as low distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Casto Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Look like I said before I own the RF- 83 COMPLETE SYSTEM with 2 sets of the surrounds. I did not buy the rt-12d after the demo. It would shake a damn thing in the room. The Jl F113 on the otherhand will make your neighbors think it is thundering outside. Go demo a F113 and put the Klipsch on Videogon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy W Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Go for the JL Fathom 113. It blows the rt12d out! Actually I was very surprised how weak the Fathom was, especially after hearing all the hype. When it lets go it's not graceful at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Casto Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 you are an employee of Klipsch right? Non biased? By the way where are the " Best subwoofer awards for this turd from Klipsch" I do not know of anyone with a serios system out here that has to run out and buy a Klpisch sub to complete his system. However there are many many People out here including me who owns a Klipsch system who bought the Fathom . Ask craigsub to demo it. You might get slapped.[|-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 105dB is not enough to make your neighbors think it's thundering outside... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefluffy Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I am curious to see the distortion numbers on the rt-12d, the THX Subs, and the RSW-15. I have seen output comparisons against other subs, but I have not seen comparison of distortion measurements. Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Casto Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 105 db? That is what I mean it is 105 db of mid bass compared to the FATHOM f113. The Fathom has floor shaking, couch shaking, light blowing power. The Klipsch is loud and thts about it when compared. I will not argue any more. Go to a local dealer and compare for yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Obviously you didn't look up the measurements....the 105dB is for the F113: TheRT-12d is good for 120dB at 30Hz indoors, so probably closer to 114dBoutdoors. Even subtracting an extra 3dB for bloated specs and the RT-12d is still good for an extra6dB (which would be perceived twice as loud). Can't argue with the facts. Heck, call the F113 good for 110dB above 30Hz and it's still putting out less. Btw,how do you know the RT-12d was configured properly in your singledealer demo? If I were a dealer, I'd be configuring everything to soundmediocre against the product with the highest profit margin....alsoknowing that it's way easier to sell an image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 As shown, the F113 goes into seriously heavy compression by the time it gets to 105 db. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Heavy compression at 105dB...please tell me what you smoked,it is good stuff. The measurments were taken outdoors and at 105dB the compression is minimal. It is by 110dB you start to see(as the graph CLEARLY shows) "heavy" compression. I see some interpret graphs like John McCain interprets economy the "sunshine" way. Maybe Mr MadOff should be hired to read these graphs. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 Maybe Mr MadOff should be hired to read these graphs. Too late. He's been writing the ad copy for the company whose name rhymes with hose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I see at least a db of power compression at the 105 db trace. Granted, this was an outdoor measurement, and you can add between 6 and 9 db inside. All the subs tested were tested under the same conditions. Ok, so there wasn't 3-4 db at 20hz at the 105 db level trace. The JL in the test also had the good fortune of being supplied 230vac, compared to the voltage over here. So the test can be a bit optimistic actually. Maybe I should have said heavy compression at the 110 db trace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Maybe I should have said heavy compression at the 110 db trace. More like hard clipping at 110dB... [] Either way, the RT-12d is gonna put out more SPL from 20-30Hz....so all these fantasies about the F113 having more bass aren't founded in reality. I suppose it'll have more bass in the sense that it plays more notes than is present in the source material. [^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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