Need to tame my Cornwalls

[George Roland]

My experiences with Klipsch speakers are very similar to yours. Back in the 70s, I bought a pair of Cornwalls-WOs--beautiful. I really liked their dynamics, the "big" sound, but I had the same reaction you did to the hardness of the sound and found them fatiguing to listen to. I tried upgrading my electronics (at great expense). That helped a little, but not enough. Eventually, I ended up selling them. I bought a pair of KEF 104aBs to replace them. One experience I will never forget was listening to a recording of classical music I had heard hundreds of times before. On the Cornwalls, in a particular passage, there were woodwinds playing. I could not tell what woodwinds they were, there was just this generalized woodwind sound. On the KEFS, the reproduction of the timbres of a clarinet and an oboe in this passage was dead on. It was absolutely clear which was which. The KEFS were not fatiguing to listen to and I enjoyed them for many years.

I listen to opera a lot and operatic voices were the central thing that disappointed me with the Cornwalls. The voices sounded constricted, shrill and sometimes painful to hear. I never experienced this kind of sound in the opera house.

More recently I purchased a pair of used K-horns. Although they are very different from Cornwalls, I found a similar coloration in vocal reproduction. With the K-horns, I went the whole nine yards--upgraded crossovers, Crites' tweeters, Altec mid horns and drivers, Trachorns, SET amps, Blueberry pre etc., etc. While may of these tweaks improved the sound, none removed entirely the colorations and fatigue. So, I sold them. I agree with the respondent who said you could improve or change things somewhat with these tweaks, but not entirely change the basic character of the speakers. I spent huge amounts of money trying to get the speakers to sound differently than, I am now pretty much convinced, is their nature.

I absolutely love Paul Klipsch. I find him a fascinating character and an amazingly gifted engineer. I would love to be able to have his speakers, but I just wasn't able to take the sound of them. I finally bought a pair of used Quad ESL-63s for $1,800.00. I have had them about a year now. They are not fatiguing at all to listen to and have a timbral accuracy and clarity I find almost unnerving. They do not have that huge, dynamic sound you enjoy in home theatre applications and that I found thrilling in big orchestral passages on the Klipsches, but, at least for now, they're "doing it" for me. If you haven't heard planar speakers, you might try to listen to some. Magnepan MG 1.6QRs are pretty nice but not, in my experience, quite as transparent as the Quads. (I had both in my room and was able to A/B them as long as was needed to come to a fair assessment.) I use tube electronics now, which I much prefer to solid state.

If I read your posting correctly your room is nearly square? I suspect the bass boom you're hearing is a room effect that may be helped by repositioning. If you have the caps you might go ahead and replace them in your crossovers. I doubt it would make your Cornwalls more harsh, or you can try a pair of Bob Crites' crossovers. He does great work! The putty on the horns tweak is so inexpensive why not try it. Couldn't hurt.

Best of luck in your search for satisfying sound! Don't let anyone intimidate you. It is your money, your music and your pleasure that is at stake. I hope you find what you love.

George Roland

[Deang]

Greatly enjoyed that post.

[colterphoto1]

P-trap diagram, I believe it originally came from Dean. This ones for those who can't read circuit diagrams.

But my caps are yellow Mr. Dean, can I use them equally well? I cannot find the green ones.

[Cornwalled]

Hello George,

It's interesting that you mention the Maggies, as the 1.6QR is one of the ones I've been looking at. I have given some strong thought to planars, and maggies specifically. Some concerns I have over planars:

1. May be difficult to setup and position optimally in my room (about 16.5 by 16.5 x 10)

2. May not have very much bass impact, though I do have plenty of subwoofers for that

3. With only mid 80 db efficiency, they might not get very loud with my 85 WPC tube amp.

I would like to hear some planars again, I really haven't had too much experience with them.

-Jon

[Cornwalled]

I have decided to recap the crossovers, since I have the caps already. I'll report my findings after that is done.

-Jon

[George Roland]

Hi there Mr. Deneen,

Thanks for the kind words about my posting and for building such great electronics! I loved my Blueberry Xtreme!

I am using an Audio Research SP-8 preamp and an Audio Research VT-100, 100 watts/ch, power amp with my Quads.

I would agree that I am not a high volume listener, but I'd like to elaborate a bit about the question of volume. I can listen to the Quads at volumes that exceed those at which I normally listen with no problem. Certainly I am not listening at the "ear-bleeding" levels that some listeners expect, but I never listened to any speakers at those kinds of volumes--even the Klipsches. I hesitated to buy Quads for a very long time partly because they were reputed not to be able to play "loudly enough". I went to a dealer's and listened to a pair of the new large Quads, 2905s, and was pleasantly surprised at how loudly they would play. When the smaller ESL-63s (that I could actually afford!) came up on e-Bay, I was able to audition them at length at the seller's and was fully satisfied that they would meet, and even exceed, my volume needs. My room is 14 x 22 feet and the Quads are about 6-7 feet out in the room across the narrow width. I listen from 7-12 feet away typically, and I can play them at volumes that to me are uncomfortably loud.

If I had a larger room or desired to play music louder than I do, I can understand that the Quads might be inadequate, but they suit me presently. I think the balance of factors is right. My room was probably too small to do the K-horns justice. I could not put them on the long wall and was unwilling to completely remodel the room to make that possible.

Loudspeakers are fascinating devices. I have owned more pairs than I care to think about. I still look here and at e-Bay and Audiogon every single day to see what Klipsches are for sale. I am that haunted by what I did like about them. I bought and read Ken Kessler's book on Quad and find Peter J. Walker as interesting, cantankerous and genius-gifted as was Paul W. Klipsch.

Enjoy your music,

George Roland

[BS Button]

Dean,

Can I insert a resistor into my B-3 midrange just to attenuate? I have K52H or K's

[Cornwalled]

Hey George,

How do you like that Audio Research gear? I have strongly considered getting an ARC tube preamp. In fact I've been trying, but haven't been able to find one that I could afford yet. I also think that if I ever went with planars, I would probably get the VT-100 to drive them, as it seems well suited. I've wanted to hear some Audio Research gear in person, but haven't had the opportunity yet. However, most of what I've read online has been favorable, and they seem to hold their value well.

-Jon

[George Roland]

Jon,

I have limited experience with tube gear, but I really love the ARC equipment. I have not heard any CJ, VTL or other highly-regarded contemporary tube equipment except McIntosh 275s which is what the seller of my Quads was using to demo them. Very nice sounding! One thing I liked about the Quads, is that they do not need huge amplifiers as the Maggies are reputed to require. Quads should do fine with 50 watts/ch and ARC makes some good power amps in that 50-60 watts/ch range. I powered my Maggies with the 100 watt/ch ARC VT-100 and they sounded fine. I believe I read somewhere that Magnepan demos their speakers with ARC electronics. That was an old post I read somewhere, may be no longer true (if it ever was!)

My ARC SP-8 preamp was too high-gain for my K-Horns--it produced a lot of noise, so I wouldn't recommend it to you for your Cornwalls, Hence the acquisition of a Blueberry Xtreme as recommended by many on this forum. It sound great with the K-horns. With less efficient speakers than the Klipsches, the SP-8 sounds really fine--beautiful phono stage if you're into vinyl. A beauty just sold on e-Bay for $870.00--a "steal' as far as I'm concerned. Nice piece!

I did own some vintage tube amps and preamps. All Dynaco stuff--PAS-2 preamp, ST-70s and Mark III power amps. The ARC stuff is so much clearer and more detailed, there's no contest, and ARC's service on their old equipment is fantastic. That means a lot to me as I am not educated to tinker with electronics!

Enjoy your music!

George

[JJkizak]

Of course all of these audio observations at around 9khz are based on that persons ears and hearing response. Since I can't hear a lick over 12.5 khz and the 9khz is several db down the peak doesn't bother me. Found this out with a frequency test CD. But I can hear 29hz real good.

JJK

[Cornwalled]

Hey George,

Thanks for the informative post. I am surprised to hear your comments on the SP-8's noise. I have not heard of that from any ARC gear. When I first hooked up my VTL amp, I had a hum. However, I switched interconnects, and it went away. Perhaps the preamp just didn't like your interconnects, or maybe there was a problem with it? Don't know, just guessing. Still, I'm glad you like your gear.

So far, I am very happy with the VTL amp with the Corns, so I don't see myself changing that. It's just a matter of what preamp I would choose.

-Jon