Novice Observation

[jbpjr]

Why are the KL-650's 3 times the price of the RB-81's?

I purchased the KL-650's and KL-525's for my HT. It was the first time I had purchased Klipsch and I was so impressed with the detail the speakers produced, I decided to go ahead and get RB-81's for second set-up.

I expected the 81's to sound good, but not as good as they actually did. Found myself going back and forth between rooms to compare sound. The 81's and 650's were very close. I didn’t even have a sub with the 81's yet, and the room was full of sound, sharp detail balanced with nice mid-lows.

Obviously, the speakers are in different acoustic environments. The 81's in your basic rectangle shaped room with a flat ceiling. The KL’s are in an L shaped room with two different height vaulted ceilings and a skylight, I’m sure there are all kinds of acoustic problems going on. So it’s not really a side-by-side comparison and I’m no expert, but the 81's really sound good.

So I’m left asking myself, "How much did I actually pay for the THX stamp on the front of the Ultra2 speakers?".

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking the KL’s, really amazing speakers for movies, amazing detail. Once I move and get to build a true HT room, I will be purchasing 2 more KL- 525's and possibly the subs, so not bashing the Ultra’s, just questioning the price. Is it some sort of marketing ploy, THX certified = 3x price?

I think the RB-81's paired with quality subs will work great for movie reproduction, and you will save $1000's over purchasing the Ultra2’s. Just a thought.

[colterphoto1]

Two woofers v one, R&D for that horn, THX specs (not just a label, but a specific eq curve and dispersion), really really solid cabinets.

THX certification is very costly, that's not Klipsch's fault.

[jbpjr]

I guess I should have started with, "Klipsch RB-81's, why don't they cost more?"

I'm sure meeting THX requirements is expensive, and Klipsch is probably having to pay some sort of licensing fees.

I was just questioning the $ value of THX certification. Is it worth it? The 650's and 525's sound amazing. The 81's sound very good, and dare I say similar.

Not looking at the speakers physically (extra woofer, better build) or the costs to produce them, but just the sound they produce, what my ear is telling my brain, the RB-81's are not far behind the KL-650's.

I guess I was just trying to point out the dollar vs. sound ratio of the 2 speakers. In my opinion, you can get close to THX certified sound at a 1/3 of the cost with the RB-81's.

Just wonder what the price point of the Ultra2's would be without the THX stamp on the front of the speakers?

[Olorin]

There are installations for which THX certification is a design requirement, and without that certification, the speaker system is disqualified. It seems to me that the Ultra2 was developed and exists to meet the needs of that market segment, and it wouldn't exist otherwise. I think that means the answer to your question is "divide by zero error."

[michael hurd]

Someone once said that to get that last 10% of performance it costs 90% more. Look at the Heresy vs K-horn back in the day. Same midrange and tweeter, with a much different cabinet. Now look at the price differential.

[jacksonbart]

Why does anything cost anything?

[Olorin]

Why does anything cost anything?

Blue.

[Professor Thump]

Why are the KL-650's 3 times the price of the RB-81's?

I purchased the KL-650's and KL-525's for my HT. It was the first time I had purchased Klipsch and I was so impressed with the detail the speakers produced, I decided to go ahead and get RB-81's for second set-up.

I expected the 81's to sound good, but not as good as they actually did. Found myself going back and forth between rooms to compare sound. The 81's and 650's were very close. I didn’t even have a sub with the 81's yet, and the room was full of sound, sharp detail balanced with nice mid-lows.

Obviously, the speakers are in different acoustic environments. The 81's in your basic rectangle shaped room with a flat ceiling. The KL’s are in an L shaped room with two different height vaulted ceilings and a skylight, I’m sure there are all kinds of acoustic problems going on. So it’s not really a side-by-side comparison and I’m no expert, but the 81's really sound good.

So I’m left asking myself, "How much did I actually pay for the THX stamp on the front of the Ultra2 speakers?".

Don’t get me wrong, not knocking the KL’s, really amazing speakers for movies, amazing detail. Once I move and get to build a true HT room, I will be purchasing 2 more KL- 525's and possibly the subs, so not bashing the Ultra’s, just questioning the price. Is it some sort of marketing ploy, THX certified = 3x price?

I think the RB-81's paired with quality subs will work great for movie reproduction, and you will save $1000's over purchasing the Ultra2’s. Just a thought.

That is a very valid question that you ask.

The answer is materials and design. RB-81 is what we like to call "the smallest floor stander at Klipsch". It is certainly very full range. It has a premium compression driver (not our largest but big). It also is very compact for it's output. That being said there are several things to think about.

The THX Ultra II series has very expensive materials for its build:

· The face plate is made out of anodized aluminum that is brushed. All of the tributes are expensive as AL prices have sky rocked.

· The crossover design is more defined. More nodes on the board.

· The finish is painted adding more labor and cost.

· Two woofer motors instead of one larger one.

· THX certification adds cost to the price.

So hopefully that answers your questions.

[flaming eye]

Why don`t you try the 81`s in the room that your KL`s are maybe then they will not sound so similar or if the 81`s sound good in that room maybe the KL`s would sound great in that room ,you just can`t compare speakers in that way ,speakers sound different in different rooms they will not sound the same in every room .

[Professor Thump]

To answer another question that others may want to ponder...

That's (Thanks) for your response about the 650's vs rb-81's.

I had another question if you don't mind.

How do you determine which speakers to use for surround channels?

I
always thought that it was best to use direct firing speakers
(bookshelf or floorstander) over dispersion speakers, if your room
allowed for it?

I ask because, in the near future, I will be
purchasing 2 additional speakers from the Ultra2 family for surround
duty. I was planning on getting 2 more KL-525's. Should I be getting
the KS's instead?

I know that the Ultra2 system comes with KL and
KS, and that THX recommends using both dispersion and bookshelf for
rears, but is that always the best way to go? If yoor room allows for
it, are direct firing speakers better?

I have 3 kl-650's and 2kl-525's.

Thanks for your help.

JBP,

Sorry it took so long to reply. I guess it has been a busy week.

You
ask a very good question that I have thought about often. Surround
sound is great. I love it! That being said everything about reverb
replication is complicated. There are several things to think about.

Room Type - Alcons... How much absorbtive material do you have on the
surfaces near your surround field? Is it primarily hard surfaces or do
you have lots of carpeting and curtains or for that matter foamor other
absorbtive materials? If it is a typical brighter room then a monopole
such as the KL-525, 650 is recommended.

How far back will the
rear surround speakers be from your listening position? If the
distance is close then KS is probably better. This is simulate
diffusion in a smaller space do to the low Q polar dispersion pattern.

Source Material - What is your priority? Music in surround mode
or movie sound effects...Typically I would say that if you want to
listen to music with critical accuracy in the rear channels then you
will want a monopole (KL) speaker. Movie effect you could argue either
will work.

The truth of the mater is the more speakers
you add to your system the less poles you need to stimulate air in
multiple paths. Thomas Holman would tell you that anything beyond 10.2
becomes deminishing returns on surround sound.

It
sounds like you have been bitten by the madness bug and you will have
to try both solutions to figure out what you like for yourself.

[winchester21]

I think that the RB 61 and the RB 81 are the 2 most overlooked, underated and way underpriced speakers on the market. I used RB81s as rears and RB 61s as surrounds in my previous Reference HT system upon the advice of the tech support folks at Klipsch. The RB61s mounted high on the wall firing down at the listening position were perfect. I never bought any dispersion speakers and was directed away from them in a 7 speaker setup. The RB 81s as rears really shined in Concert DVDs where the rears played more of a part than just background sound effects. I would also quite frequently pull the different Reference speakers and hook them up to my 2 ch setup to compare them with my K horns, Cornwalls, and Lascalas. The RB81s are particulary clear and responsive through good electronics. A pending sale has fallen through so I am pulling my set off the market and setting up a second system in the den using the RB81s as fronts. With RB81s selling in the 400-500 range in as new or new condition- it beats the heck out of me why anyone would even consider buying any other bookshelf speaker.