Wrench722 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I am looking to build a sub with around 1000 watt and a 15"woofer. What would be a good bass plate amp for the job? I was looking at the Dayton HPSA1000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted July 16, 2009 Share Posted July 16, 2009 It sort of depends on your needs. If you are building a vented ( ported ) box subwoofer you will need a high pass filter built in, and it should be tailored to the tuning frequency of the box. This is no trivial matter, as a driver in a ported box with a signal below it's tuning point has no control over the cone, this can cause permanent damage, both to the subwoofer driver and your wallet. O-audio Bash 500 is ideal for most sealed builds, with externally adjustable parametric eq as well as a variable phase control. $229 Not really suited to most ported builds because of the built in boost. Tested to produce 459 watts @ 4 ohms. eD ( Elemental Designs ) LT-1300 amp comes in at $ 450, and it is a Keiga OEM for them specifically. Keiga also builds the same amp ( with different graphics and slight difference in the heatsink for Madisound ) Bob Reimer of Creative Sound Solutions said that he tested it and it drove a 2 ohm load. ( not recommended by the manufactuer ) The high pass filter can be modified by eD ( so I have heard ) if you call them and ask them to. Stout amp that delivers the power. Downside is only 0 / 180 phase, and a boost that you can't changeunless you can solder confidnetly, only switch on and off. Built inhigh pass filter, no idea of the corner frequency off the top of myhead. Madisound pricing for the comparable Keiga unit is more $$. Dayton HPSA 500 / 1000 is the same amp, with a different bias setting ( this is said on the avs forum ) but they have all the same components.$ 250 / 425 respectively. The rackmount version of the HPSA amp ( HPSA 1000R ) tested to produce 580 watts into 4 ohms, and this was also with a variac to hold line voltage steady. Not bad, but there are better. If you are going with a sealed box, I would use the O-audio. If you need a bit more power get the eD LT/1300. With a ported box, you pretty much need a tailored high pass filter, the Bash 300 / 500 from Parts Express might be best for you. Have you actually modeled the driver in your proposed box to see what you need in terms of power? You may need less power than you think to keep the driver within linear limits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted July 16, 2009 Author Share Posted July 16, 2009 I am not sure what I am doing. I have built a lot of boxes and made my mind up I need more bass in the rear of my room. I would like to build two subs with a 15" woofer. I dont mind spending the money as long as it is a good amp. I just dont know much about bass plates. What would have a lower Hz a ported or not ported? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 If you're wanting to go really LOW, you might want to look at building an IB (Infinite Baffle) subwoofer. You'll have usable output down into the single digits. If you want to hear one, I'm less than 2 hours from you. For about $1200.00 (drivers and amp) you'll have something that will outperform virtually anything that's commercially available. They also won't take up any floorspace in your room. There's also no need to mess with box sizing or port calculations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. RF62 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Do you have a pic of that sub somewhere CEC?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Do you have a pic of that sub somewhere CEC?? Yes and no. The firewall we have here at work will not let me access photobucket. To see it, go to photobucket.com. Put cecaa850 in the search box. It will ask you if you want to look at the photo albums of cecaa850, or something like that. Click yes to access my albums and look around. Most of the build pics were taken with a disposable camera nad then scanned, so the image quality isn't very good, but you get the idea. The 18" drivers were made by Ascendant audio, but the drivers of choice nowadays are made by Ficaraudio. Edit, there's a couple pics at the IB website. Scroll down the page to the pics of Carl P's build. Mine is an array build, but the manifold style gives better vibration cancellation. BTW, I've measured 110 dB at 10Hz where I sit, which is 14' away from the sub. My wife hates when I do that as all the windows in the house flex so bad with the pulsations that she thinks they're going to break. http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page3IB-Gallery3.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2009 CEC from what your saying it goes very low and 110 db is loud but what about if it's pointed across the room, like left to right and not toward the seating area. I wanted to do a different sub in the future and not taking any floor space is nice but the only place I have the space behind the wall would be toward the front left corner pointing across the front wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Dtel, when bass is crossed over at a low enough point, you can't tell where it's coming from. If you didn't know I had subwoofer drivers next to my ceiling, you'd swear that the bass was coming from my mains. Before you settle on where to install your IB, you need to take a conventional sub and put it where you think you want your IB and listen to it. If you can blend it with your mains at that location, the IB will blend as well. It's an important step, because once you install your IB, they're not easily moved. Once it's installed, you'll never go back to a conventional sub. I had subs from Infinity, Klipsch and SVS before I built my IB. I have no desire to upgrade my anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardP Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 [Michael said: "The rackmount version of the HPSA amp ( HPSA 1000R ) tested to produce580 watts into 4 ohms, and this was also with a variac to hold linevoltage steady"] Michael, do you mean to say that the amp, which is rated as 500 watts into 8 ohms, and 1000 watts into 4 ohms, only produced 580 watts into 4 ohms? Do you know where this test was published/posted? That number is very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2009 Well I will check into it more when I get ready to do something, I may be able to use a side wall that has a 6' x 8' bedroom closet which the door stays open almost always into the bedroom ? Is there special drivers for IB subs and how do you figure what size they have to be 12'' 15'' 18'' and how many, I put the studs every 16" when I built . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 On the AVS forum under the DIY Speakers and Subs section, there is a thread entitled. " Measuring Amps`` Type it in the search box and it will pop up. On the first page is a list of all the amps that were tested by a fellow that used to be an ex Crown employee. [Michael said: "The rackmount version of the HPSA amp ( HPSA 1000R ) tested to produce 580 watts into 4 ohms, and this was also with a variac to hold line voltage steady"] Michael, do you mean to say that the amp, which is rated as 500 watts into 8 ohms, and 1000 watts into 4 ohms, only produced 580 watts into 4 ohms? Do you know where this test was published/posted? That number is very low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Dtel, I would highly recomend THESE. There's no need to worry about the driver size if you build a manifold like the ones pictured HERE. I personally would go with 18"s for most all applications. This SITE can explain IB's better than I ever could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2009 Thanks, now all I need to do is get the $ and see where/if she will let this happen, she will gain a little floor space to so it might be OK, we already discussed a different sub to get the old 5 CF off the front wall now that there are HUGE speakers there, I have always been interested in IB speakers I just thought it took many drivers and tons of power to do it. I need to do some reading Sorry Wrench didn't mean to steal part of you thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 WOW! That is a lot of cool stuff. But I am looking for a sub that I can move. So back to my question. What are some good bass plates? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 I have always been interested in IB speakers I just thought it took many drivers and tons of power to do it. I need to do some reading 4 drivers and a $400.00 amp will blow your mind. Holler if you have any questions. And now back to our regulary scheduled thread..................................... Carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 MY 3000'TH POST!!! Sorry, couldn't help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted July 17, 2009 Author Share Posted July 17, 2009 MY 3000'TH POST!!! Sorry, couldn't help it. Cool you go bad boy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted July 17, 2009 Moderators Share Posted July 17, 2009 Congratulations on 3000, post fly by when your helping people. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted July 18, 2009 Share Posted July 18, 2009 It depends on what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you currently have a subwoofer? Are you dissatisfied with it, or generally happy with it? Have you tried alternate placements for it? What is your budget? Absolute best process..... measure a sealed sub outside, repeat inside room in many places to find the best response. Build a subwoofer to suit that location and response shape. ( advanced ) 2nd best. Choose a maximum size box total ( outside dimentions ) From there, get a working volume and evaluate what drivers will work in that box. Keep in mind that a port will subtract from the available volume, as will any bracing or the actual volume taken up by the rear of the driver's magnetic assembly and frame / cone. Take the inside measurements ( if you use 3/4" thick material, subtract an inch and a half from all outside measurements ) and multiply the LxWxH. This will give you cubic inches. You convert this to cubic feet by taking that number and dividing it by 1728. ( 12"x12"x12" is 1728 ) For any given outside box size, you have more effective volume in a sealed cabinet than a ported cabinet. If you have a smallish sealed room ( not an open space, open to the rest of the house ), you generally would have better ( flatter ) response with a sealed sub. If you have a large room and or small to mid size room that is open to the rest of the house ( think open concept ) you may get better results with a big ported box. Once you have those answers, we can help you. Figure on at least $ 300 for the amp, around $250-300 for a really nice driver ( shipping and taxes rough estimations ) and at least $ 100 for a cabinet if you have built a few, this includes all the small stuff you will need, screws, glue, etc. If that's more than you are willing to spend, we can work with less, but it all depends on your goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench722 Posted July 18, 2009 Author Share Posted July 18, 2009 It depends on what exactly you are trying to achieve. Do you currently have a subwoofer? Are you dissatisfied with it, or generally happy with it? Have you tried alternate placements for it? What is your budget? Absolute best process..... measure a sealed sub outside, repeat inside room in many places to find the best response. Build a subwoofer to suit that location and response shape. ( advanced ) 2nd best. Choose a maximum size box total ( outside dimentions ) From there, get a working volume and evaluate what drivers will work in that box. Keep in mind that a port will subtract from the available volume, as will any bracing or the actual volume taken up by the rear of the driver's magnetic assembly and frame / cone. Take the inside measurements ( if you use 3/4" thick material, subtract an inch and a half from all outside measurements ) and multiply the LxWxH. This will give you cubic inches. You convert this to cubic feet by taking that number and dividing it by 1728. ( 12"x12"x12" is 1728 ) For any given outside box size, you have more effective volume in a sealed cabinet than a ported cabinet. If you have a smallish sealed room ( not an open space, open to the rest of the house ), you generally would have better ( flatter ) response with a sealed sub. If you have a large room and or small to mid size room that is open to the rest of the house ( think open concept ) you may get better results with a big ported box. Once you have those answers, we can help you. Figure on at least $ 300 for the amp, around $250-300 for a really nice driver ( shipping and taxes rough estimations ) and at least $ 100 for a cabinet if you have built a few, this includes all the small stuff you will need, screws, glue, etc. If that's more than you are willing to spend, we can work with less, but it all depends on your goals. I am trying to achieve a lot of bass for my home theater. I have two RWS-15 and on the back wall I have two JBL E250p. The room is 45x30 and sound system is on the long wall. The JBL,s are just not doing what I want. So that is why I am tring to build two subs to take there place. As far as budget. I dont mind paying for stuff as long it is worth it. I understand how to measure a box and build them. I my spare time I have been building Khorns. Well with the size of my room. I was thinking about a large ported box with a 15" and around 500 to 1000 watt amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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