greg928gts Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 See if you can find an Answer Man! I suspect that's easier said than done. I spent some time at a TT forum (lol) about a year ago and didn't find an answer man. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 11, 2009 Author Share Posted August 11, 2009 I do not know anything about this line of tables but it looks like a modified Rega (300?) tonearm. For a $10,000 table I would expect to see a higher end arm unless that rega is highly modified. I don't know if it's a $10K table, I really don't know much about it. I think the brand new Van Den Hul (sp?) cartridge is pretty expensive though, from what I've heard. Man, I'd really like to get this thing working. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Greg, you've got e-mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 Greg, below is a comment I got from someone who knows the industry well and has a good grasp of many technicalities involved. However, I don't think he has direct knowledge of Transrotor products. Not knowing anything about the topology of the power supply, or whether the motor is ac synchronous, or dc, it is very hard to say. Basically, yes, he should buy a US power supply, unless he knows a lot about electronics and could go in and change the crystal (if it is ac synchronous) and the transformer. $1000 for a new p/s is pretty much in the ballpark and he should know that it is not just a bridge rectifier and a transformer, like a computer p/s. These things are actually small, high-quality amplifier/regenerators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 12, 2009 Author Share Posted August 12, 2009 That is very helpful information Larry, I really appreciate all your help. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted August 12, 2009 Share Posted August 12, 2009 My read is as follows: It looks to me that the turntable is belt driven from the motor. (Is that correct?) It is probably a synchronous motor which means its speed is set by the frequecy of the a.c. which is applied to it. there may be two grooves on the motor pulley. I don't see this in the pictures -- only a spindle on the motor. There should be a pulley and a belt. Or, is the second thing in the photo a different pulley for 45s and and these are alternate pulleys? (The old AR's had a pulley with two steps, 33 and 45.) It looks like the motor is fed with 18 volts a.c. from the wall wart, per the plate on the wart. I can't quite tell from Greg's pictures but it looks like there is a multi-pin connector from the wall wart output which feeds the motor. That wall wart is just a transformer. The motor really wants 18 volts at 50 Hertz. There is no easy way of creating 50 Hz from 60 Hz mains like we have. Specifically, how do we come up with 230 volts 50 Hz. One thought is that there must be "pure sine wave" inverters made to create 50 Hz 230 from a car battery. My thinking is that those must be available in Europe. My quick google showed up inverters without pure sine wave. However, if that could be found, you could power the wall wart with it. How close to 50 Hz they stay, I can't say. It looks to me that Transrotor is also offering the speed control units mentioned by Larry C. BTW you can look at www.transrotor.de These are meant to address a situation where the main's frequency is suspected of being off frequency (1) or to adjust frequency of the output to run 45 rpm (2). These are essentially units which take line voltage (it looks like always 230 v. 50 Hz) as an input. Then the output is 18 volts to run the motors on the various turntables. The frequency (Hz) is probably 50 Hz but then you can play with the knobs. Greg's photos show two other boxes. Maybe, maybe, one or the other are earlier versions of speed control units. Perhaps one has a connector in the back which takes the multi-pin plug from the turn table. Heck, I'm really guessing here. If so, the speed control unit may be designed to take 230 volts, 50 Hz from the mains to drive it. If so, it will probably take 230 volts 60 Hz. This could be had from a travel type transformer. The purpose of the box is to make its own 50 Hz (or so) output. Again, this is a lot of guesswork. Don't hold me to any conclusions. Looking at the website, it seems like the manufacturer is only in the European market. I don't see any mention of the $1000 power supply meant to be used on U.S. mains. BTW, in Greg's picture, there seems to be a a physical adaptor on the wall wart input prongs. What is that about? Conversion from a Russian system? Best, Wm McD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 My read is as follows: It looks to me that the turntable is belt driven from the motor. (Is that correct?) It is probably a synchronous motor which means its speed is set by the frequecy of the a.c. which is applied to it. there may be two grooves on the motor pulley. I don't see this in the pictures -- only a spindle on the motor. There should be a pulley and a belt. Or, is the second thing in the photo a different pulley for 45s and and these are alternate pulleys? (The old AR's had a pulley with two steps, 33 and 45.) It looks like the motor is fed with 18 volts a.c. from the wall wart, per the plate on the wart. I can't quite tell from Greg's pictures but it looks like there is a multi-pin connector from the wall wart output which feeds the motor. That wall wart is just a transformer. The motor really wants 18 volts at 50 Hertz. There is no easy way of creating 50 Hz from 60 Hz mains like we have. Specifically, how do we come up with 230 volts 50 Hz. One thought is that there must be "pure sine wave" inverters made to create 50 Hz 230 from a car battery. My thinking is that those must be available in Europe. My quick google showed up inverters without pure sine wave. However, if that could be found, you could power the wall wart with it. How close to 50 Hz they stay, I can't say. It looks to me that Transrotor is also offering the speed control units mentioned by Larry C. BTW you can look at www.transrotor.de These are meant to address a situation where the main's frequency is suspected of being off frequency (1) or to adjust frequency of the output to run 45 rpm (2). These are essentially units which take line voltage (it looks like always 230 v. 50 Hz) as an input. Then the output is 18 volts to run the motors on the various turntables. The frequency (Hz) is probably 50 Hz but then you can play with the knobs. Greg's photos show two other boxes. Maybe, maybe, one or the other are earlier versions of speed control units. Perhaps one has a connector in the back which takes the multi-pin plug from the turn table. Heck, I'm really guessing here. If so, the speed control unit may be designed to take 230 volts, 50 Hz from the mains to drive it. If so, it will probably take 230 volts 60 Hz. This could be had from a travel type transformer. The purpose of the box is to make its own 50 Hz (or so) output. Again, this is a lot of guesswork. Don't hold me to any conclusions. Looking at the website, it seems like the manufacturer is only in the European market. I don't see any mention of the $1000 power supply meant to be used on U.S. mains. BTW, in Greg's picture, there seems to be a a physical adaptor on the wall wart input prongs. What is that about? Conversion from a Russian system? Best, Wm McD Yes, it's belt driven from the motor. There is a push in/push out switch on top of the motor, which I assume is the power on/off. The pully has two different sized grooves in it. I really didn't pay much attention to these parts when I got this TT, and I never saw it hooked up. I'm just learning that the two boxes I have are a Phono preamp with separate power supply by Clearaudio. They don't have anything to do with the power, they go between the TT and the system amplifier or preamplifier. The wall wart has a 9-pin connector that connects directly to the TT motor. It's plugs into European outlets with two pins (230v). So now I'm not sure what the $1000 device is that Transrotor said I needed. I have a hard time believing it's simply another wall wart. Perhaps a device that goes between the wall wart and the motor. Larry has provided me with a name and contact number of someone who should know a lot more about this and hopefully next week I'll have time to contact them. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted August 14, 2009 Author Share Posted August 14, 2009 I do not know anything about this line of tables but it looks like a modified Rega (300?) tonearm. For a $10,000 table I would expect to see a higher end arm unless that rega is highly modified. It's a Transrotor tonearm either 2.6 or 9.1. I didn't unpack it to see, but the literature I have says it's one of the two. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted August 14, 2009 Share Posted August 14, 2009 The wall wart has a 9-pin connector that connects directly to the TT motor. It's plugs into European outlets with two pins (230v). So now I'm not sure what the $1000 device is that Transrotor said I needed. I have a hard time believing it's simply another wall wart. Perhaps a device that goes between the wall wart and the motor. The $1,000 device may be a US-version "KM-1 Motor Controller" that most likely regenerates a 60 Hz pure sine wave TT power supply, as suggested in Gil's post and Bob's comments in my post. It can switch to 33 or 45 rpm without shifting the belt on the pully. http://www.transrotor.de/code/de/produkte/plattenspieler/konstant_m_1.html (sorry it's only in German, but the text says 33 & 45 rpm). I don't think it would involve the wall wart, which would only change the line voltage without regenerating pure sine wave power. I don't see how you can use the wall wart in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Just today I noticed an advertisement in Audio Xpress for an ac regenerator. The website for the manufacturer is http://www.monarchyaudio.com/AC-Regenerator.html I just can't believe it has the audio affect ascribed to it in reviews. But that is anyone else's business. According to the specs it will take 120 ac 60 Hz in and output selected ac at various voltages and frequencies, including 50 Hz 230 volts. The 400 Hz option is a bit of a puzzlement. My recall is that this is (was) used in avionics because the 400 Hz allowed the use of smaller inductors and transformers (iron cores being heavy). So perhaps Monarchy was hoping for some bench use in avionics testing. The ad in AX states there is a discount price of $599 'til December. Wm McD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 It sounds like you have some top notch gear. Would transrotor take your motor in trade for a new one plus some cash? If not you could recoup some cash on audiogon. Good luck it looks great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Greg, the pic of the power supply shows 18 volts AC @ 1 amp. You may want to look for a non switching power supply. I think its that simple. Symbol for AC~~~ http://www.minute-man.com/acatalog/18_VAC_Wall_Transformers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Greg, the pic of the power supply shows 18 volts AC @ 1 amp. You may want to look for a non switching power supply. I think its that simple. Symbol for AC~~~ It couldn't be that simple could it? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 My Project uses a simple wall wart as well. http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject-16V-PSU-for-Xpression Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 It couldn't be that simple could it? I don't think it would be that simple, IF the motor rpms depend on the power line frequency. Wall warts are transformers that change line voltage but not the frequency. Running a European 50 Hz/sec motor on US 60-Hz current will cause the TT to rotate at about 39.6 rpm (60/50 X 33), which is enough faster to be noticeable on many LPs.Yes, it would be that simple if Russia and the US had the same line frequency. Ordinarily, I would expect a TT manufacturer to make a 60-Hz motor pulley for the U.S. It would be somewhat larger (I think I got that right) than the European pulley, to make the platter rotate at 33 rpm on 60-Hz current. Did you get a chance to call Axiss? Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Ordinarily, I would expect a TT manufacturer to make a 60-Hz motor pulley for the U.S. It would be somewhat larger (I think I got that right) than the European pulley, to make the platter rotate at 33 rpm on 60-Hz current. What you are saying makes sense if the speed regulation is frequency dependent and done by the FRIWO $5 wall wart transformer. I seriously doubt that is the case on a high end turntable. I think the wall wart is simply a power source and the regulation is done at the motors esc. Worst case scenario if I am incorrect the motor will not spin at the correct speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think I confused things a little when I said that I had a speed controller. I don't have one. It's simply the wall wart, through the six-pin connectors to the motor. The wall wart says it's an AC to AC adapter, so the motor must be AC. If I bought a new wall wart, I'm not going to have six wires to hook up. That's what makes me think this isn't going to be that easy. I emailed Jaime Monroy at Axxis to make contact, he emailed back, and then I emailed explaining what was going on. I never heard back. I guess I'm going to have to call him. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 If I bought a new wall wart, I'm not going to have six wires to hook up. That's what makes me think this isn't going to be that easy. Well, let's hope for a simple pulley change.That said, based on my experience with a PS Audio power regenerator ($1,100), the sound quality might be quite a bit better with one made for the TT instead of a wall wart sending it stepped-down ordinary distorted house current. Maybe someone will let you try out a T-R unit. PS Audio at least used to furnish trial units for the cost of shipping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think I confused things a little when I said that I had a speed controller. I don't have one. It's simply the wall wart, through the six-pin connectors to the motor. The wall wart says it's an AC to AC adapter, so the motor must be AC. If I bought a new wall wart, I'm not going to have six wires to hook up. That's what makes me think this isn't going to be that easy. I emailed Jaime Monroy at Axxis to make contact, he emailed back, and then I emailed explaining what was going on. I never heard back. I guess I'm going to have to call him. Greg Greg, I suspect there is a speed regulator in the motor assy. The fancy 5 pin din connector carries 2 18v pairs of cable feeding the motor, as described in the specs for the upgraded power supply / speed box.. The transformer show a single output, and I suspect it is split to share the power to both sets of feed wires. Hopefully you get this issue solved to your satisfaction, I am sure the answer isn't $1000 although a very nice table. Dave Harris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 Greg, I suspect there is a speed regulator in the motor assy. The fancy 5 pin din connector carries 2 18v pairs of cable feeding the motor, as described in the specs for the upgraded power supply / speed box.. The transformer show a single output, and I suspect it is split to share the power to both sets of feed wires. Hopefully you get this issue solved to your satisfaction, I am sure the answer isn't $1000 although a very nice table. Dave Harris If I buy a new wall wart, how will I know what wires to wire to what? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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