Outlaw's new 5-channel amp

[RobCurran]

Has anyone else read about Outlaw's new amp, The 755 . Looks like another high quality and high value product from these cowboys. Any thoughts/comments???

They've updated their 5-channel amp but not their 5-channel pre/pro, still carry the 1050 receiver though. The 950, their new 7.1 channel pre/pro (7-channels?...don't need all that), looks good but I want to stay in the 5.1 realm.

Any thoughts/comment about a good 5.1 pre/pro to be matched up with the 755.

Thanks!

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A/V AMP: Yamaha DSP-A1

TV: 29" Sony Trinitron

DVD: Toshiba SD9200

CDP: Denon DCM-370

MAIN: Klipsch Heresey II

CTR: Klipsch KSF-C5

REAR: Infinity SM-65

(crap)

SUB: Infinity BU-1 (crap)

[TheEAR]

This new Outlaw looks great,two transformers,solid built.Hmm I may want one at this low price,and the 7 channel Outlaw also looks mighty good.

I compared the older 5 x 165 Outlaw(on loan)and it sounds almost identical to my ATI 1505.This new Outlaw should be like a reduced ATI 2505,this should tell you GIANT VALUE.

I wonder if ATI does not build these amps for Outlaw?Hmm could be,but so far ATI uses one HUGE transformer per amp(1505 and 2505,as the 1504 and 1506 use two and three transformers each!)

Anthem also has some very nice new power amps,their 5 channel power amp is also quite a piece and ppriced to sell fast.The AMP50 has 160000uF of caps,two 800VA transformers and its well built.Sound great too(had it last week for test).

As for a pre/pro,I would recomend Outlaw's own new pre/pro or the fantastic but more expensive Sunfire.

The Sunfire has it all,even balanced outs.The Sunfire competes with much more expensive pre/pro units in the 4-5K range.I will get the Sunfire pre/pro this year.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[anarchist]

Theear,

Dude, ATI DOES build these amps for Outlaw based on Outlaw's specs. I tried to email you a while back about this, as well as get some info from you regarding Anthem and Bryston. I assume you never received the email.

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Fronts - KG4's

Center - C6

Surrounds - S6's

Sub - KSW200

Powered by - YAM995

[TheEAR]

crash827,

Dude go get a Dell

I suspected so much,the internal design and layout is similar.

No I dont remember reading any email about the Outlaw/ATI amps.Sorry,maybe flushed one by mistake with the countless e-mail I deleted.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[Seb]

I don't understand...

I see two transformers, but it has five channels?

So one transformer is running two channels and the other one is running three?

or am I completely on the wrong tracks?

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http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment

http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection

[Audible Nectar]

If the 755 is anything like the 750, it will be a winner. I am surprised that the 750 was redone before the 1050 - which is due to be reworked with more up to date features.

I am waiting for the 950 pre/pro, and plan to use it in a 5.1 configuration. I wouldn't discount it just because you are not going 7.1 - the word from the beta testers says that this unit sonically outperforms units 2 to 3 times it's price. The feature set on the 950 may not suit everyone (and few pre/pros will) but looks to be another "knockout" for the Outlaws.

Regarding the ATI/Outlaw similarities - this is a review posted to the audioreview.com site by a poster named "bigwally"; it explains the similarities, with his comments on the 750.

"Summary:

First, I'd like to clear up a few points on the issue of the Outlaw 750 vs. the ATI 1505. Both represent tremendous value, but their differences are not as previously reported. In fact, they are so similar as to defy differentiation by any but the most opinionated criteria.

1. The Outlaw 750 is NOT built by ATI. Both amps were designed by their respective sellers, and the assembly in each case is subcontracted to the same 3rd party manufacturer (not a name that anyone would recognize) in Southern California, who also provides assembly for 6 other "manufacturers". This practice is prevalent, and encompasses the "high end" as well. (Nice thing about this age of the internet, everyone is naked!)

2. The ATI has 2 more output devices per channel than the Outlaw. (Both use the same Toshiba bi-polar transistors). With everything else being equal, more current might be available in the case of the ATI, but current also depends on the design of the pre-drive stage circuitry. For those of us not using humongous true ribbon Maggie, or electrostat speakers, it's a non-issue. Also, both amps use the same large, high quality power caps from Panasonic, which contribute to the prodigious headroom of these units. As far as sonic quality goes, the merits of using more output transistors beyond basic electrical needs is akin to the debates over speaker cables.

3. The ATI uses a larger toroidal transformer, but this is a non-issue as well. When it comes to rated wattage with all five channels driven, the Outlaw 750 slightly edges the ATI 1505. Apparently, either transformer is quite capable of supplying what's needed to the voltage rails, so it's overkill in either case. As it should be.

4. ATI claims to value match their output transistors, but Outlaw does in fact buy their transistors in matched and labeled pairs. Different approach(?), same results.

If you are in the market for a great 5-channel amp, you can't go wrong with the Outlaw 750. To my ears, it doesn't color the sound in anyway, and has tons of power in reserve for transient responses. With my 8 ohm speakers this amp is overkill, and I have no further concerns toward distortion. My only fear now is "bottoming out" my bass drivers. I bought this amp with the thought of eventually upgrading to box speakers which are a 4 ohm design. I'm quite sure that it will serve them very well.

Highly recommended.

Strengths:

Great value, and proof that you don't always get what you pay for. Sometimes, you get more.

Weaknesses:

Not as pretty as some of the competition.

Similar Products Used:

For home audio, I've used amps by SAE and Yamaha. As a musician, I've owned amps in this class built by Crown, BGW, and Mackie. After much time spent comparing specs and reviews for 5-channel HT amps, (Golden Theater, ATI, Parasound, B&K...) I came to the conclusion that Outlaw Audio offers the very best value with little or no compromise."

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

[TheEAR]

Seb,

I guess one transformer powers the two front channels and the second the center and sourrounds.The center and mains are more strained then the rear channels.

Oh and if you look well at the pics one transformer is larger!So this explains it,thw one that drives the extra channel has more beef.

dndphishin,

If its not built by ATI its very similar.Both designs are quite close.

I still take my ATI's against the Outlaw amps,the 2505 cleans the largest Outlaw in power.Quality is like I said about the same.

Either way the 1505 or 2505 or the Outlaw amps you cant go wrong.Power,quality and priced down to earth.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

This message has been edited by TheEAR on 03-03-2002 at 03:42 PM

[Audible Nectar]

Ears - that's why I bought it, well worth the money, comparable to ATI. I checked out both, and it didn't make sense for me to spend the extra on the ATI 2505 (double the cost of the Outlaw 750) - especially with the Cornwalls/Academy. I didn't need the extra power, so the 750 was the logical choice for me. I am very satisfied with it.

It is obvious on close inspection and investigation that they are "brothers" so to speak. Given that they are built in the same factory, with similar arrangements of like components, and the similarities in sound, the Outlaw seemed like a bargain - and it is. If someone is looking for SS home theatre amplification, it's hard to find more bang for the buck.

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

[RobCurran]

So guys, what's your recommendation for a AV pre/pro to be matched up with the Outlaw 755. Consider a 1,500 USDs budget when providing a recommendation.

- Outlaw 950?

- H/K?

- Sunfire?

- ????

I want analog by-pass for DVD-A and DPLII would be a fun. I've always been an intergrated amp/receiver guy so my knowledge is limited. I think having a great power amp and changing processors when new technology comes out just makes good sense (and good sense in this hobby is hard to find)

All comments will be useful.

Later!

This message has been edited by Rob Curran on 03-03-2002 at 06:49 PM

[aab3rd]

I am waiting on my Outlaw 950 to replace my Parasound AVC1800 for 6/7.1 and for the money ($899) I do not think it will be beat. Here are the specs.

[boa12]

rob, best imo to get a pre/pro that's easily upgradable

& from a company that will be around & actually live up to the upgrades. which i think also fits the bill for the outlaws. just something to keep in mind to save some dough in the future.

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My Home Systems Page

[Audible Nectar]

boa - what pre/pros are you recommending? How much do they cost? How are "upgrades" done?

At $899, the Outlaw would still be tough to beat against the $2000-3000 pre/pros (which seem to be the majority of those "upgradeable" pre/pros right now). What manufacturers fall into the "easily upgradeable/company that will follow through" category?

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

[boa12]

dnd, i was assuming above outlaw ARE upgradable. are they?

some software upgrades you can do yourself w/ your computer & the rs-232 port on the unit. receivers that

do this too like sony es, etc.

some you have to send in to the factory because they prefer to do & test the software upgrade (mainly just a

reprogram of the dsp for new formats like DPLII or dts 6.1 discrete &/or they do hardware upgrades such as new

dacs &/or a new dsp, more outputs or inputs, etc.

for pre/pros of course i'm biased toward b&k for modular design condusive toward upgrades & an established company that comes thru w/ them (albeit i wish they'd hurry up w/ a ref 30 upgrade ).

these days if a co. doesn't offer & keep up w/ the upgrades on a pre/pro they sorta shoot themselves in the foot. so most pre/pros do such.

if you want to see what may happen, a good example is the ACT-3 upgrade thread in the acurus section here.

it's not the most important factor for me w/ the pre/pro selection (of course the sound quality is), but

it's an important deciding factor to me.

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My Home Systems Page

[aab3rd]

boa,

the Outlaw is not upgradeable, but it has all that I want right now.

dnd,

If all you need (or want) right now is 5.1 with DD and DTS then you might be interested in my Parasound AVC 1800. I will sell it for $500 if you are so inclined.

It is one year old and has nine years left on the waranty (which is transferable per Parasound).

[Audible Nectar]

The Outlaw 950 will not be upgradeable - at least by the user. I believe this is a major reason the unit has the delays - it will need to be bug free when Outlaw begins shipping.

I realize some may see this as a disadvantage. I'm not worried about it. The 950 will do everything that I require in my HT (and then some). If the unit becomes too dated in a few years, I can sell it or use it in another system, and replace it. Many who are tired of waiting for the Outlaw, or are dissatisfied with the features/controls of the 950, are opting for units in the $2000-3000 price range (which tells me the expectation of sound quality from the 950, which is confirmed by the beta testers). I don't have that much for a pre/pro - and I can get the latest and greatest in a few years, and still only be out $899 now. Even if I spent bigger bucks now on a pre/pro, that's still no guarantee that it would not need replacing in a few years too - depending on where HT goes in the next few years.

This piece, despite some shortcomings, appears to be worth every penny of the $899 pricetag. It may be short on some features, but it places the focus on clean sound - which I deem more important. We'll see the comments when the units begin shipping - and if no problems exist, it will be in my rack. Others will need to decide if the additional cost of other units justifies the price.

Pre/pro selection really challenges the process of cost/benefit analysis!

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First we Rock, then we Roll!

[J Tanman]

I am curious in regard to Pre/Pros, do most of you actually need to keep up anually with the emerging technologies, or is it force of habit? Also, what new technologies do you forsee in the next year or so? I am planning on getting the Outlaw 950 and keeping it for many years to come. In fact, I am planning on only using 5.1 for a while. The DPL II is a nice feature, but I am not desperate for it. Mostly I am looking to upgrade the sound quality and input options from my current receiver. Keeping up to date is always nice, but is it really as necessary as it is often made out to be? This is a hobby, and as such is personal/subjective, I'm just curious what other opinions are.

[RobCurran]

Tanman, if you want to keep 5.1 channel HT, then why the 950? Price?

For everyone else, why does a "good" pre/pros and "excellent" receiver cost about the same? You would like a pre/pre would be cheaper because they dont have an amplifier. But that's another tread