new guy in need of help!!

[dazman]

hey everyone!! i am very new to the audio community. i am 26 years old from Charlotte N.C.

i dont know what i am talking about, or anything that most of ya'll are talking about in the posts!!

all that i know is that i am looking for PURE 2 channel audio. i have a set of RF-7s and i am looking for

i have about a 3000$ budget for amp pre amp, or reciever .... i think the general consensus i that seperate

equipment/ amp, and preamp is better then a reciever. what should i get?!?!

my audio journey started last year when i heard a friends pass labs x-1 pre amp, and pass labs x-150 amp with

the rf-7s.

what sounds the best with the 7's???

thank you!!

[willland]

Welcome to the forum.

If you want the most out of a system, seperates are the only way to go. For 2 channel, monoblocks are the preferred choice of audiophiles(which I am not). New to the game three years ago. Your RF-7's can dip down into low impedence(2-3 ohms) in which a high current amp would be best. Here are a couple of suggestions:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstran&1258066475&/B-K-Monoblock-Reference-200.1-

http://www.6ave.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=MARSR8002-OPN

As I said above, seperates are the best choice. I am suggesting the Marantz receiver because to many, it's preamp section bests most receivers on the market and rivals many dedicated preamps and also gives you the added flexibility of home theater(5.1 or 7.1) applications if you choose.

[wuzzzer]

Welcome!

If I had RF-7s and had $3000 to spend for amplification, here's what I'd do in a heartbeat:

Amplifiers = http://emotiva.com/xpa1.shtm x 2. XPA-1 Differential Reference™ Mono-block Power Amplifier

500 watts RMS x 1 into 8 ohms, 1,000 watts RMS x 1 into 4 ohms.

Pre-amplifier = http://emotiva.com/usp1.shtm

That puts you at about $2400 + shipping. With the money left over I would send an email or private message to Dean Wescott, forum member name DeanG and have him work his magic on the crossover networks of your RF-7s. You should come in just under $3000 for all of the above mentioned items combined.

[dazman]

Hey guys... Thanks for the replys... One question I have is about the emotiva setup. I would have to buy two of those amps? Then the pre amp. The emotivas are rated at 500 watts. The rf7 is 250. Will that hurt anything?

Also what cd player would you use??

[AltmanEars]

Something tells me if you liked the Pass you will find the Emotiva is not the same sound quality. But I actually think there are differences in amps. The biggest advantage of Klipsch is that you dont have to buy a giant amp with a massive part count. If you want, you may be able to best your freinds system by going to Reno hifi and buying a reconditioned low powered Pass Aleph 30... I'd go with a nice tube preamp like the Doge 8 or a used Mcintosh C220.

[dazman]

Thank you for the reply. Would there be a large difference from the pass labs gear and the emotive? New pass labs amp and pre amp would be 10,000$. I can get used from Reno hifi for 4500. Do you all think there would be a huge difference between the pass and emotiva? I don't mind spending the money if it would be worth it! Thank you

[AltmanEars]

reading between the lines, it sounds like you need a matching amp and preamp --- you don't as far as sound is concerned. the Aleph is the ticket for the reason you arent comfortable with --- it is low powered. If you need high power you could consider the McIntosh MC501 used which is 6-7K. I would not go for the high powered Pass stuff for some of the same reasons Pass likes the First Watt... The used MC501 is the perfect amp since it has a high resale value once you see the light.

Let me digress though --- HIFI is like everything else --- At the margins the conventional wisdom is always wrong. The conventional wisdom would be go with a big amp since there is only a minor difference between amps and you are obviously getting more for your money with a big cheap amp.

Also I am completely biased since I have met Nelson Pass on a few occasions and I consider him a smart guy with good ethics and really good ears.

[wuzzzer]

Hey guys... Thanks for the replys... One question I have is about the emotiva setup. I would have to buy two of those amps? Then the pre amp. The emotivas are rated at 500 watts. The rf7 is 250. Will that hurt anything?

Also what cd player would you use??

Yes, the XPA-1 is a mono amp so you'd have to get two of them. In all honesty the XPA-2 two channel amp would probably work just as well for you.

If you're pumping 500 watts into each RF-7 I'd make sure you're on a first name basis with your local hearing aid company.

Cambridge Audio makes a very fine CD player for the money.

[dazman]

i called mark at reno hifi, and he said that if i got the x-1 pass labs preamp and x-250 amp, it would sound incredible. has anyone tried this setup before?

thanx!!

michael

[gnatnoop]

since your just getting your feet wet, maybe wait to spend mega $'s.

here is something to consider:

Outlaw Audio Stereo Receiver RR2150 $699

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

i'm running a RR2150 with my khorns, very pleased. has subwoofer output, inputs for ipod and an input for laptop so you can play anything in your itunes library. universally great reviews.

[The Dude]

Heck that outlaw looks pretty sweet, if I had the cash now I would be getting one of those. Plus it also has the option with pres, this kind of goes with what someone was saying about the marantz in a way except you wouldn't have surround possibilities. But looks like it would be great for 2 channel with the phono inputs and many others as well, plus you could listen for a while to see how you like the sound then if you wanted to drop some dough on power amps you have the option. jmho.

duder

[AltmanEars]

Wow that is really shocking... I'm beginning to think you asked the forum one question and Mark and entirely different one... Also keep in mind that Klipsch owners have a repution for not being able to hear so it is entirely possible that he (Mark) took this into consideration and merely put the big monster on the table so as to feed into all of your misconceptions about the hobby. I've never heard a 250 on Klipsch but it will run B&W 802's with no problem...

BTW hifi is a hobby where overkill doesnt always work.

i called mark at reno hifi, and he said that if i got the x-1 pass labs preamp and x-250 amp, it would sound incredible. has anyone tried this setup before? thanx!! michael

[dazman]

I have a harmon kardon reciever righ tnow that was 500$ 7 years ago. And I want more then it can offer. I don't see how an outlaw receiver that is only 700$ could do what u want it to do... (but I'm sure it's a great receiver!) I know that I need separates, and my budget is now about 5000$.... LOL. Is there anything out there that is better then a pass labs setup at 5000$. Thanx for all of your help!!

[gnatnoop]

I have a harmon kardon reciever righ tnow that was 500$ 7 years ago. And I want more then it can offer. I don't see how an outlaw receiver that is only 700$ could do what u want it to do... (but I'm sure it's a great receiver!) I know that I need separates, and my budget is now about 5000$.... LOL. Is there anything out there that is better then a pass labs setup at 5000$. Thanx for all of your help!!

ok, understand. stereophile did run this receiver with $45,000 wilson watts and they were mighty impressed. many paths lead to nirvana, hope you find yours.

[Kriton]

OK - Too much power is a bad thing? Hmmm...don't know if I agree with that.

I own heritage, and the full RF-7 line, and I have tried quite a few different amps, separates and receivers, so I have a few opinions on your questions.

First, if you want to use the RF's for theater at any point (which they excel at, by the way) - I would go for a very good amp and pre, that also has excellent home theater surrround codecs - I personally like and swear by Sunfire products, but that is me. Obviously, maybe not so obvious, yoru RF's need solid state amplification - any tubes that I tried touse with them just didn't have the balls - while efficient, the impedence dips require some serious power.

Now just because they may be rated at 250, a 500 watt amp is a good thing - it gives you what you call "headroom" - which is power to deal with the spikes that is inherent in a digital signal, and which gives you the dynamics that make music fun to listen to, quiet and then thunderous.response.

Now I have heard really good things about Emotiva products, go read some of the scuttlebut, don't take anyone's word for it....go on the various forums and research it - alot. I recommend www.avsforum.com, audiokarma.org, audiocircle, and this forum. You can learn all you need from these sources.

I also do endorse the RF-7 mod by DeanG, really smoothed out the top end, and made them very much more listenable, especially at high volumes. Make sure they are broken in, your RF's - I still dont think mine are sufficiently broken in...

Also, you want a CD player - I can't say enough about my Oppo universal - great sound for everything - if you want to save money and want to get a gneral universal, will play anything player - go get it - damn nice.

Any other specifics - feel free to PM me.

Bruce

[AltmanEars]

Reading is fundamental --- no one said too much power is a bad thing...

Someone did say overkill in audio doesnt always work. Which is somewhat indisputable for anyone who is being honest about the hobby...

I realize I am in the minority since I like quality over quantity. I wouldnt buy a speaker which is optimally suited to a 500 watt amplifier. On the other hand the professional reviewer who reviewed the Palladiums thought the 1200 watt McIntoshes worked perfectly so I'm sure for most people 500 watts on an RF-7 is just fine...

I also have a different novel idea on testing the amps --- You buy them and use them in your system... You don't read about them on the internet since most of the reviewers don't know what they are talking about and certainly the people who give opinions on the forums are a bit dodgy (myself included), especially since they are usually trying to justify or rationalize their own purchases.

BTW lets talk the math of headroom ---- Most people would feel 30db in practice is fine. So someone who listens fairly loud and averages roughly 90db 10ft away from their speakers in a fairly dead room with 10 db of falloff for a 100bd /m/w speaker actually needs 1000 watts to handle peaks...

I would not think RF7's sound good at this level...probably should go for the big PMC's or Westlakes ---

If you are a more normal person and you average 70db at the listening position a really good 100 watt amplifer gives you 30db peaks at the listening position.

[AltmanEars]

I have a harmon kardon reciever righ tnow that was 500$ 7 years ago. And I want more then it can offer. I don't see how an outlaw receiver that is only 700$ could do what u want it to do... (but I'm sure it's a great receiver!) I know that I need separates, and my budget is now about 5000$.... LOL. Is there anything out there that is better then a pass labs setup at 5000$. Thanx for all of your help!!

ok, understand. stereophile did run this receiver with $45,000 wilson watts and they were mighty impressed. many paths lead to nirvana, hope you find yours.

qnat --- trying to save someone money is truly unamerican[6]. Most audiophiles never learn money has little to do with sound. Stereophile was pulling a fast one ---- Wilsons are really not that good and $700 integrated/receivers can be extremely good.

[Kriton]

Reading is fundamental --- no one said too much power is a bad thing...

Someone did say overkill in audio doesnt always work. Which is somewhat indisputable for anyone who is being honest about the hobby...

I realize I am in the minority since I like quality over quantity. I wouldnt buy a speaker which is optimally suited to a 500 watt amplifier. On the other hand the professional reviewer who reviewed the Palladiums thought the 1200 watt McIntoshes worked perfectly so I'm sure for most people 500 watts on an RF-7 is just fine...

I also have a different novel idea on testing the amps --- You buy them and use them in your system... You don't read about them on the internet since most of the reviewers don't know what they are talking about and certainly the people who give opinions on the forums are a bit dodgy (myself included), especially since they are usually trying to justify or rationalize their own purchases.

Thanks, I can read well enough - and you are just an unhappy cuss aren't you?

What I was trying to say to this gentleman was that, for those of us not fortunate enough to just "buy [expensive pieces of equipment] and use them in your system", that research, among and across many different posters, both good and bad - generally leads to a good idea of what these pieces of equipment can and can't do. As Emotiva doesn't have the customary corporate overhead, the components they sell are lower priced (as I understand it), the quality is excellent, and the customer service is also very good (a huge consideration). This is what I have gleaned, not from one or two folks talking about these thigs, but hundreds of comments across many boards...but of course, I could assume that they are all just full of crap, because they are all idiots justifying their purchases - but frankly, I don't need to justify my opinions or purchases to you or anyone, and believe it or not - this non-audiophile really wants to just be helpful - but that may just be a dodge too. I don't own Emotiva, nor have I heard them - but people I respect on this forum have - and they like the stuff. That holds a lot of weight for me, but ultimately I always make my own decisions.

So, what might have been said - to paraphrase - that you *can* have too much *bad* power. "Good" power is generally going to cost you money, but dont believe for a second that just because you pay a ton for it, it is going to be better than stuff worth a lot less. There have been some high priced equipment that I have just not been impressed with...now that requires just going to audio get-togethers, and hanging with good folks with similar tastes.

Now the RF-7's need power to make them sing; my 400~7 Sunfire drives them nicely, but lesser amps that I have had - both very good and mid-fi, do nothing for them; I almost got rid of the speakers thinking that something was wrong with them...until I put a light under them. Oh and no justification was needed for the purchase of the RF-7's as they were a gift that I didn't purchase, just saying.

I have never heard Pass amps in person, but (again by word of Internet), I have heard they are outstanding. As always, it is your call!

I will go mind my own business again, sorry for the interruption.

B