How loud is too loud for headphones?

[dgoreck]

Article brings up an interesting point.

"The Commission said that at 80 decibels, exposure should be limited to
40 hours a week. At 89 decibels, exposure should not exceed five hours
a week."

Now, compare the stock iPod headphones to my X10's and even Custom 1's at the same volume position is pretty great.

This maybe a Prof Thump question....

So, my X10's are rated at 110db SPL/mW @ 50 ohms vs same the 108db SPL/mW @ 32 ohms of the C1's. Trying to lookup the spec's on my iTouch, and I can't find what it provides to the headphones. I have a HeadAmp Pico,
and the specs are 0.7Wrms w/32 ohm load. To me using the X10's on
this vs the iTouch, well, pretty different (much fuller sound, better
bass) I don't use it all the time, as it's not convient for me to carry around when using the subway/commuting.

How loud is too loud? Granted I listen a level which I can sustain for a long period of time, but my level does vary from say morning train ride in as background music for me to sleep, vs actual listening, vs me cranking it for a few songs.

So, how loud is to loud to listen? What is 80 or 89 dB really like in the ears? How do I know if my comfort level of extended listening is say 90-95? I hate to say the that great noise isolation of the headphones hurts in determinging this, as I feel it plays tricks on me. Especially when commuting I feel I need to turn it up to get more bass impact vs sitting at home in a quiet room.

Just food for thought.

[justin_tx_16]

It really depends on a lot more than just the power going from the iPod.

Use your best judgement, if it seems loud, follow the rules just as you posted. It's hard to know exactly. It's probably running louder than you think, the longer you play the more you tend to turn it up. I try to never go beyond 60% on my iPhone's volume.

For what it's worth... iPods have had a power output of around 30mW at 16 ohms, 30 mW @ 32 ohms and 50 mW @ 16 ohms in the past (depending on the model). Apple does not publish explicit details, unfortunately. They did with the original iPod but not for a long while.

Play safe!

[TJ Max]

From what I understood. With ear buds you should never exceed %70 of the total volume level of the MP3 player. This should put you at about 65-75 db-spl. There is no exact number because of so many variables involved. In other words if your MP3 player has a max volume level of 30, go no higher than 21. This should allow you around 4 hours of safe listening.

With In Ear phones, IEMs like the Klipsch. You should not exceed %50 of the total volume level of the MP3 player. Because of their isolation and in ear design %50 should also be within 65-75db-spl.

Also its a misconception to think that just because you have -26b isolation with IEMs that you can go into a "louder" environment and be safe. If the outside noise is still audible over the IEMs at 70db-spl then your ears may be taking in around 90-100db-spl which is dangerous. So even with IEMs you should assume the isolation is for a "normal" environment -50db-spl.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm

[jacksonbart]

It really depends on the SPL in the most sensitive frequencies. Headphones seem more likely to cause damage in those conditions.

[WMcD]

As well said by others above, it is difficult to determine. This is so even with all the reported efficencies calculated.

One issue not discussed is that modern pop recordings are always very compressed. This is to say always high.

The article alludes to public transportation and ear buds. Good call.

There are two issues here. Ambient sounds in the subways are very high, probably up at 60 to 70 dB to begin with. Ear buds do not seal out this very well. (Though in the ear units like the Klipsch and others do.) As a result, users crank up the volume to be able to hear the music. Therefore they may be putting 90 dB into their ears.

I'd suggest one test to you. Pick a favorite recording. Listen in a quiet home situation (low ambient noise) to the point where it is comfortable (1) and near uncomfortablely loud (2). Note the volume settings.

Then go to your public transportation setting. You may well find that (1) makes the music difficult to hear over ambient noise and (2) is almost loud enough to enjoy. From this you may get some insights to just how much you are punishing your ears to get the music over the ambient level.

Without belaboring the point, I think that in-the-ear type units are good for public transportation simply because they attenuate ambient noise. They protect your ears from that grung. Therefore you don't have to crank the volume to hear the music.

Wm McD

[TheEAR]

How loud is too loud?

Over 90dB for extended periods of time is too loud,100Hz up and in the upper registers you will harm your hearing.It may take years for mild hearing loss but it is real. I usually listen at ~80dB with peaks that can go beyond 110dB(short peaks). Headphone abuse is a major case of hearing loss and loud N proud car systems. Going to concerts and standing in the first rows is a sure ticket to speedy N stupid hearing loss.

In the very low frequency range levels of over 110dB will not be close to damaging your hearing,as hearing sensitivity is ..drops.

So...

Listen at a level that you can ENJOY for hours,not at opressive levels. Blasting music is pointless. With the gear I have I can break windows out of sheer SPL,but I only reached dangerous SPL once, I am not ready to lose hearing to impress the bums of this world.

[Professor Thump]

That is a great question. Unfortunately the answer is complex.

I plan on blogging about this topic soon. The plan is to measure all models at different iPod loudness levels with sign wave signal to give SPL levels for these settings. This won't necessarily answer the question but will help. The other problem is that in your ear canal at Ear Drum Reference Position, DRP the response is elevated at 2.7 kHz by 14 dB. So shall I weight the magnitude with this response or do a simpler method of 1 kHz output?

Common sense goes a long ways. I had a guy say he thought X10 was terrible and that it distorted. He was listening to metal at full scale. After explaining that it was going to damage his ears I gave him X5. Now that model gets VERY loud if you want and still stays clean. He loved it... of course at the SPL levels he was listening to, the blood was about to spit out his nose... (kidding). The point is that a little common sense is needed. If your ears are ringing after listening to headphones your body is telling you to turn it down. Now this happens to everyone from time to time so just realize that moderation is the key to life and listening to IEMs is no different. Play short durations loud if you want but the "dosage" (accumulated power) is key.

The other thing that was brought up is the compression of audio in master mixes. This is a seperate but extremely sad topic that should be discussed on a seperate headphone thread.

... More to come on this topic folks!

[WMcD]

Gee, this would make for a good thesis for someone, maybe me if I ever got that far.

By way of example. In subways, the cars sometimes go around a curve and the steel wheels slip on the steel rails setting up a massive squeek. Perhaps just around 3500 Hz were our ears are most sensitive, or the ear canal is giving the most gain (maybe same thing).

I recall riding the NYC system as a kid with an aunt and it was horrible. Recently on the CTA subways, it is bad too.

The issue is to measure just what acoustic level people force into their ear canal to listen to music on headphones in those circumstances.

We'd need a source like an I-Pod with a volume control . There would have to be an intermediate amp with output to the human's headphone, and identical output to identical earphone to a dummy head (Edit: should not be insulated -- so that the ambient does get in) in tote bag with a data logger or something like a laptop with calibrated Audacity running. Maybe one channel of the stereo Audacity will record actual ambient and the other is the microphone in the dummy.

The subject would be asked to listen and adjust the volume control to what they "like" over ambient noise.

Here, we would have a data on ambient and also a fairly close look at what is going into the subject's ear. It might be difficult to control for the seal of the ITE but maybe some smart cookie will make up a feedback loop to test ear seal based on impedance seen by the ear transducer.

Smile.

Wm McD

[dgoreck]

Thanks all.

It's not like I get ringing after listening. It definately seems my habits/sensativity changes dependning on location as well. Biggest problem as of late is riding on the train in the morning(5am). I turned the volume limit to like 10 percent on the ipod, and try and make it as low as possible, and well, its either off or still a little loud for background music for me to sleep too, but I do fall asleep. Just a problem of very sensative headphones.

I definately adjust the the volume to somewhat compensate for the ambient noises not blocked out. I try not listen to loud, I guess I just love bass, and atleast at modest level, you get a nice thump compared to listening at lower levels.

[dgoreck]

Just found/read Prof Thumps blog post.

http://community.klipsch.com/blogs/technical/archive/2009/12/10/goes-to-eleven-how-much-crank-is-too-much.asp

Feel a lot better now. :-)