Recording Sound Card setup question

[artto]

Maybe Marvel or Mallet can harp in on this one.

I am using an E-mu 0404 sound card with Sony Sound Forge for live recording. I never have been able to get Sound Forge to recognize the ASIO input signal from the 0404. It will however recognize Microsoft Sound Mapper and Windows Classic Wave Driver. Which is the better one to use for high quality recording?

I also notice that when I select the Audio Device Type as Windows Classic Wave Driver, the Default recording device changes to E-DSP Wave [DE00] (which is related to the E-mu 0404), whereas when I choose Microsoft Sound Mapper for the ADT, the Default recording device also shows Microsoft Sound Mapper. I am using 24bit depth for recording at 44.1KHz.

There also seems to be a related noise issue. When I select either Windows Classic Wave Driver or Microsoft Sound Mapper (the only two that work) I see some low level noise present at about -55dB. I've noticed this noise before on previous recordings and thought it was from the concert hall lighting or electric, but apparently not. The noise is still present even if I turn the source (mixer) off.

[artto]

I've also just tested the inputs to the sound card from the mixer. It doesn't matter what kind of cable or mixer output I use (balanced XLR to phone plug from the mixer XLR out, or phone plug on the mixer main out, or RCA from the tape out). As soon as I plug the cable into the card inputs the noise shows up, even with the mixer off.

[artto]

OK, I got rid of the noise problem, or at least most of it. It was ME. The old proverbial ground loop booger. Isolating the ground on the electrical power chord for both mixer and computer solved most of it. The noise is now down to about -81 to -85dB ~ acceptable for all practical purposes.

Now how about the driver question? [*-)]

[JJkizak]

That -55 db is typical of Forge when the input is switched on, not a big deal. The ASIO driver thing may be related to using the latest drivers for your card which sometimes is a problem. Things like---is the card rated for XP, Vista, 32 bit, 64 bit, Win 7 64 bit? Is the motherboard on board sound shut off in the bios? Do you have all the latest updates for windows particularly the .nets? Are all the latest motherboard drivers installed? What version of Forge do you have? My on board 7.1 sound has a special driver from Realtek coupled with a special driver from Microsoft for proper sound operation. A lot of this stuff is part of the Bluray thing---Is the computer rated to view & process Bluray? That's a shot in the dark however. You have to have all the correct drivers or it won't work.

JJK

[artto]

That -55 db is typical of Forge when the input is switched on, not a big deal. The ASIO driver thing may be related to using the latest drivers for your card which sometimes is a problem. Things like---is the card rated for XP, Vista, 32 bit, 64 bit, Win 7 64 bit? Is the motherboard on board sound shut off in the bios? Do you have all the latest updates for windows particularly the .nets? Are all the latest motherboard drivers installed? What version of Forge do you have? My on board 7.1 sound has a special driver from Realtek coupled with a special driver from Microsoft for proper sound operation. A lot of this stuff is part of the Bluray thing---Is the computer rated to view & process Bluray? That's a shot in the dark however. You have to have all the correct drivers or it won't work.

JJK

Thanks JJ. I've spent hours with Sony and countless emails with E-mu. Sony even was willing to trade me a sound forge 9 in lieu of tech support if it solved the problem, which it didn't. I'd like to use ASIO but I think it's hopeless with this card and Sound Forge (8d). No BluRay or anything here. I install a different drive when I'm recording live-in-concert. Nothing on there except the E-mu PatchMix and Sound Forge and a clean store bought Windows XP. Everything's been updated. So the bottom line is whether Microsoft Sound Mapper or Windows Classic Driver is going to give me better results. For now I think I'm going to go with Windows Classic Driver since the E-DSP recording device shows up as the audio device

For me -55dB noise level is note quite adequate. Friday I'm recording the Glen Ellyn-Wheaton Chorale Xmas concert. On the most quiet parts the noise is clearly audible, at least for me (not sure they notice on the final CD)

[Marvel]

Artto, I'm not sure what is going on the ASIO. The only reasonable sound card I have had here at home is an Audiophile 2496 card. The ASIO drivers that came with it work great on my XP system.

Have you tried any of the 3rd party ASIO drivers that are available? You wouldn't want to try this close to a gig, but it's something to think about.

Bruce

[DrWho]

I'm pretty sure both of the windows drivers in XP send the audio through the OS kernel, which resamples everything to 48kHz...

Do the ASIO channels show up in the ASIO patch panel in Sound Forge if you pick more standard recording settings like 16-Bit at 44.1kHz, or 24-Bit at 96kHz?

[artto]

Artto, I'm not sure what is going on the ASIO. The only reasonable sound card I have had here at home is an Audiophile 2496 card. The ASIO drivers that came with it work great on my XP system.

Have you tried any of the 3rd party ASIO drivers that are available? You wouldn't want to try this close to a gig, but it's something to think about.

Bruce

Haven't tried any 3rd party drivers yet. Did some reading on it this morning, but you're right, not going to do this right before a gig. I'll try it tomorrow or Sunday.

[artto]

I'm pretty sure both of the windows drivers in XP send the audio through the OS kernel, which resamples everything to 48kHz...

Do the ASIO channels show up in the ASIO patch panel in Sound Forge if you pick more standard recording settings like 16-Bit at 44.1kHz, or 24-Bit at 96kHz?

Mike, yes, but there are about 30 or more channels, all just say "ASIO". I remember going thru tech support and the guy telling me to individually try all them one at a time but its difficult to keep track of where I'm at because they are all named the same (simply "ASIO").

I'm not too concerned about the latency issues as I take my headphone out from the mixer or DAT (my alibi device). I'm more concerned about what Windows is doing to the audio quality, if anything. Maybe this is not as much of an issue as it used to be?

As a sidenote, after I cured the noise problem by floating the grounds at the computer and mixer, it seems I've gotten increased gain/sensitivity from the mics ~ I've had to turn the mixer gain down to get the same levels in Sound Forge. At any rate -80 to -85dB works fine for now.