Reference, Synergy, or Icon? Best price/performance ratio? HELP!

[nightcabbage]

Right now I have a Yamaha HTR-5960 receiver connected to a Klipsch Sub-12 and the Quintet III sats. I'm probably keeping the receiver and sub for now, but I want to replace the rest of my 5 speakers, and I'm looking for some direction (*ah hem*, INFORMED direction rather).

First off I should mention that I'm not an audiophile, but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate good sound or can't tell the difference. I really don't have a lot of cash at all right now (I will be selling my mint condition Quintet III's to help pay for the new speakers in fact). I want a system that will last me for the next 5-10 years (then maybe I'll look at some really good stuff). This will primarily be for movies, and eventually Blu-Ray movies, as well as a few console games and music here and there... but 90% movies. (No TV, we don't have it.) The current room is about 14' x 17'.

Right now I was looking at #1) the B-3 Synergy system, http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/b-3-home-theater-system-overview/ with or without the discontinued C-3 and S-3s, or maybe #2) the RB-10 Reference system, http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/rb-10-home-theater-system-overview/ , or perhaps even an equivalent system from #3) the Icon series such as the XL-12, http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/xl-12-home-theater-overview/ , ... but I really would like some suggestions here.

[ I should insert here that I'm thinking about bookshelf speakers only, not floorstanding, both for space purposes and obviously pricing. I don't know how something like a high end bookshelf speaker in a series (IE: the B-3s) compare to a low end floorstanding in a series (IE: the F-1s), and would appreciate suggestions here as well. ]

I don't know much about the Icon series, but they seem expensive everywhere. I don't know if it is that much better and worth the money or not. I also hear that people generally prefer the Reference series over the Synergy series, but I can't find how something like the B-3 system compares to the RB-10 system, or in other words how the “higher end” Synergy compares to “lower end” Reference.

I WAS leaning on the Synergy B-3 system because I found an authorized Klipsch dealer selling two B3 speakers for $180 shipped and a C3 (which has actually been discontinued and hard to find, especially new like that) for $200 shipped. Of course, finding a pair of S3s (which I would prefer) would be incredibly difficult, and I can't even find the S2s for a good price yet.

However, tonight I'm finding that there are Reference speakers on eBay for cheap as well... two RB-10s for $230 shipped, an RC-10 center channel for $150 shipped, and two RS-10s for $270 shipped. This is pricing I could probably swing, and if these are indeed better than the B-3 Synergy system maybe it is worth it... however even if they are “new in box” and sold by sellers with 99% positive feedback, I wonder if I'm making a mistake buying speakers from a non-authorized Klipsch dealer. Is this a big mistake? I don't really see speakers as being one of those things I'd worry about having something go wrong with as I would an A/V Receiver or a computer part, but I honestly don't know.

Of course, if anyone knows of some better sales/deals out there, I'm all ears!

So that's about all I have to say. I hope that gives you all a picture of where I'm at. I want to try and make the RIGHT choice here, so any and all suggestions are welcome as long as they make sense. One of the problems I'm running into: finding a bunch of reviews for speakers from people who own them but have not owned the others to know how they compare, which doesn't help my decision making process. Researching products before you buy is like a love/hate relationship. I enjoy it, and at the same time I just want to finish it and make a purchase! Unfortunately, I will never be happy unless I feel completely comfortable with a purchase either. [8-)] So here I am...

[wuzzzer]

At the prices you found, the B3/C3 combo is a great combo. You could do B3 fronts, C3 center and B3 surrounds also. Then if you sound S2/S3 surrounds you could replace the B3s if you wanted. Otherwise, lots of people on here use bookshelf/floorstanding speakers for surrounds with excellent results.

[nightcabbage]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I'd rather have the actual surround speakers, but price might dictate I do what you're suggesting.

Anyone have any opinions about the RB-10 system vs the B-3 system?

[Bill H.]

The B-3 system is better than the low end Reference. Just get that, and wait for the Surrounds. No need to hurry or get everything at once (I know you want to though).

Good prices on the B-3 and C-3 . Good Luck and Post Pics.

Try the 3.1 setup first, and go ahead and sell your Quintets. You may just enjoy the setup without the rear speakers...........

FYI - Check out past sales on Ebay.........you will be shocked how little the Quintets are selling for............

[nightcabbage]

I was thinking there would be more headroom with the B-3/C-3 than the lower end Reference, and I'm glad you're reflecting that sentiment Bill. Whenever I heard people compare Synergy/Reference, I wondered if they were not comparing the midrange/high ends... but when you get right down to price/performance, I was wondering if this Synergy sale wasn't the way to go. I'm really a price/performance ratio kind of guy (IE: I think if you're going to buy a CPU for a computer right now, the i5 makes a lot more sense than a mid/high end i7... for those who understand the analogy.) Why pay 50% more for 10% more performance? I understand that with the range of issues in sound quality the analogy isn't perfect, but you get the gist! []

You're right, it is so hard to wait! I could use a couple of Quintet III's for the surrounds until I find some good priced S-3s or S-2s, but there IS kind of a hurry in that I need to SELL my Quintets to help pay for the new speakers, LOL!

More suggestions/experience are welcome! I'm also starting to wonder if it makes sense to pair the B-3s with the C-3/S-3s, or if I really need to go with floorstanding. Maybe floorstanding are only important for stereo music listening?

[nightcabbage]

Ya know, after more research, I've figured out that the system I REALLY want is the Reference RB-51 system... with the RC-52, RB-51s, and RS-42s. I think that is a closer comparison to the Synergy B3 system, and I know that the Reference will sound better. Also, the dimension of all the speakers in the RB-51 system are PERFECT for my furniture... and more than that the front firing ports on the center is great because I have a "back" to the shelf where the center goes, but I DON'T have a back to the shelf where the right/left would go, which have rear firing ports. I think the fit, for me, is just better all around... and even though that Synergy sale is truely insane good, I think I might just need to wait until I find a similar great sale for the system I truely want...

So if anyone knows where I can get the RB-51 Home Theater System (minus the sub) for a great price, let me know

Also, I'm still open to more thoughts on any of the above.

[jrod]

night,

Where are you located? Are you willing to go the used route?

Jrod

[Youthman]

I've figured out that the system I REALLY want is the Reference RB-51 system... with the RC-52, RB-51s, and RS-42s

Jrod has the right idea. The used market is a great way to pick up a nice reference system for much less than you can buy new. I think we've all made purchases that were not quite what we wanted....only to find ourselves selling it, losing money, just to get what we really wanted in the first place. Decide what you want, look for deals, and don't be afraid to piece it together over time. Many of us have done that. It's hard to be patient while we save up and find the right deals but in the end, you will be much happier with your purchase. Good luck.

[nightcabbage]

I'm in Ohio. I'm not sure about buying used. I suppose in the electronics field that speakers, if anything, are probably one of the least risky things to purchase used. Am I right in that assumption?

I've almost always purchase new, and part of the reason is because I take really REALLY good care of my stuff... as in I'm anal about it. Sure I could gain some comfort from knowing I saved money buying used stuff, but that might be offset by the comfort I would feel knowing I have brand new speakers, out of the box, with warranty and all. Probably silly of me.

Does anyone ever see Reference series stuff on sale anywhere? I saw some good prices at ayselectronics.com but that site looks a bit sketchy...

[Youthman]

You sound a lot like me. For the longest time, I only bought new stuff. I didn't even like the idea of refurbished gear. Over the past few years, I began to realize that you will spend much more money than you need to if you buy new.

There are some benefits to buying new:

• They smell new
• Original packaging
• You know exactly how they have been treated

There are even more benefits to buying used:

• Get much more for your money
• Can still find excellent quality gear
• Sometimes they come with the original packaging
• Save money
• Get to meet some really cool people
• More money in your pocket
• Can buy more gear because you saved some money

See a common theme here? LOL

Seriously...as with anything used, there is always a risk. The seller could lie about the condition. It could break shortly after you buy it and you have no warranty. BUT....because you paid much less for it than retail, you can afford to buy another one after a few years. If it lasts you longer than that, then you just saved even more money.

In general, speakers last longer than electronics. There are many people that have owned a pair of Klipsch speakers for 20+ years. I would say that's a pretty sweet investment.

Does anyone ever see Reference series stuff on sale anywhere? I saw some good prices at ayselectronics.com but that site looks a bit sketchy...

If you are looking to buy new, many of the guys around here recommend Vanns.com and there was another site that I can't recall at the moment. I thought it was Sound Distributors but I don't think that was it.

[jrod]

Fair enough, it's your $.

I'd only buy from Klipsch Authorized online dealers, if you insist on buying new.

[Youthman]

I'd only buy from Klipsch Authorized online dealers, if you insist on buying new.

Why online only? There are many local authorized dealers as well.

[jrod]

Oh yeah, obviously! I just thought he would have already scoped his local shops.

[BluBitRates]

are you adament about buying from authorized dealers for the warranty? I was thinking about getting my rc-64 from fleabay

[Bill H.]

if you got the B-3 and C-3 combo . You could buy these S-1 for surrounds..........and be done with it all.

http://community.klipsch.com/forums/t/133052.aspx

Then save up , and later on get the Reference series you want.

[mrseamus]

If I am not mistaken, Youthman has a nice pair of RB-35's which would be a great start. Youthman is a very reputable forum member and provides sound advice (no pun intended) to several new and older members alike. You should be able to find a great deal on a RC-35. If you can't, let me know. I have one that I could probably part with. That would get you a decent center stage. You could then search for a pair of reference surrounds. As previously advised, take your time and look for the good deals. They are out there. If you rush to put a system together, you will be forever upgrading. No wait, you will be continually upgrading anyway. Hasn't anyone told you about the madness???

Good Luck. Let us know what you decide.

[nightcabbage]

What's with these discontinued reference speakers... they look similar to the new ones. Why were they discontinued?

[Youthman]

Thx for the kind words mrseamus. Yes, my RB-35's are still available until this weekend, then off to Ebay.

I know when I built my system, I did it over time. I learned my lesson many years ago to plan, save and get what I want instead of settling for something less than what I wanted.

If you rush to put a system together, you will be forever upgrading.

Very wise statement.

No wait, you will be continually upgrading anyway. Hasn't anyone told you about the madness???

I guess I doubt this statement but then again, I haven't finished purchasing all of the gear that I set out to purchase. Just need the XPA-3, acoustic panels and possibly a pair of RS-42 or RS-52's if I choose to go 7.1. If I do that, I might need one additional amp. Other than that, I really don't see a need to "upgrade" at all.

What's with these discontinued reference
speakers... they look similar to the new ones. Why were they
discontinued?

If you've noticed, many of us around here have a disease. It's called "upgraditis". It's very dangerous, contageous and has many symptoms including:

• Late nights on Craigslist, Ebay, Audiogon and the Klipsch Forums
• Begging and making deals with your significant other to let you buy more gear
• Breaking into your piggy bank, searching for loose change in your couch and under your car seats to raise enough money to buy that deal you just found
• Long drives of 600 miles + to obtain some speakers that are older than you are
• Continual tweeking of your system to try and reach musical nirvana

Klipsch and other manufacturers know this happens so just like with any other product, they have to come up with "new and improved" gear so that they can continue to stay in business. Some of the greatest speakers Klipsh ever made were discontinued at one point in time. Recently, they began to remanufacture the Heritage speakers (Khorns, LaScalas etc).

You definitely can save much coin by buying discontinued models. I picked up my Yamaha receiver that way. $1200 receiver new for $400 because it was an "older model". It totally rocks my world.

Good luck with your search and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. We are here to help, even if that means helping you spend your money. []