_RIGGED_ Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 I recently purchased two older toys, a minidisc recorder and cd recorder, both products of Sony, each have analog and digital inputs. I'm able to record a clean copy on MD but get a rather strange one on CD, it sounds like a slow motion copy. Any ideas why this is happening? RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockOn4Klipsch Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 can you adjust the read write speed on the recorder. Seems maybe the write speed may be causing issues, could be a faulty laser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivernuggets Posted June 17, 2010 Share Posted June 17, 2010 I still enjoy using my Sony MZR-700 Minidisc. Great for vocal recording, and it's gone with me to more than a few concerts. Captured a George Carlin show here in Madison in 2006. Sad that MP3's kind of squished them out of popularity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 All DVD audio is recorded @ 48K. sample rate (or greater). CDs are recorded @ 44.1K. The minidisc can read 48K and convert it to its native format of 44.1K. It seems that your CD recorder can't. You would have the same issue if you can rip a DVD audio track. It must be down sampled to 44.1K before you can burn it a CD. Also, a lot (NOT ALL) of DVD audio is stored in compressed AC3 format, yes EVEN if it is only 2 channel stereo. ALL DVD players should be capable of converting it to PCM (as a DVD setup option as well as mix down AC3, 5.1 -> PCM), but the sample rate is still 48K, different from the CD standard One possiblity... Old Sony MD decks that sport BOTH digital IN and OUT operate as a D/A - A/D when in record mode with no disc present. I beleive if you could put the MD deck BETWEEN the DVD output and CD recorder input, things just MAY work for ya ... the MD would being acting as the rate converter. You would still be doing a digital to analog/analog to digital CONVERSION, but NOT an ATRAC (compression) one. There is NO WAY (I know) that sample rate conversion can be done purely in the digital domain, so you are probably no (not much?) worse, than ripping, and converting it with software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RIGGED_ Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Thanks for the advice fellas, I appreciate it. RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 All DVD audio is recorded @ 48K. sample rate (or greater). Not true... DVD audio can be recorded anywhere from 44.1k to 192k for the stereo audio track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 well ... you won't be able to cite a single example of 44.1K on ANY standard Video DVD (the situation I am reasonably sure he is talking about), not that will play correctly (if at all) by a DVD player... . The Audio DVD format(DVD-A) MAY support it, but you aren't going to find it in practice... as a matter of fact, you probably won't even be able to find any [new] Audio-DVDs anymore. I certainly agree that greater sample rates DO exist ... but certainly NOT the rule of thumb... >99% will be at 48K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 well ... you won't be able to cite a single example of 44.1K on ANY standard Video DVD (the situation I am reasonably sure he is talking about), I didn't read anywhere that he mentioned DVDs. You are the one who brought it up to begin with. I only see where he mentions a CD and MD recorder and making clean copies, but the OP doesn't mention what the source material is.Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I didn't read anywhere that he mentioned DVDs. You are the one who brought it up to begin with. I only see where he mentions a CD and MD recorder and making clean copies, but the OP doesn't mention what the source material is. Cheers I guess I surmised it from the title of the thread ... my bad. [8-)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Not a problem with me. I am certainly not intending to argue with you. I've have had issues with mini dv tapes not syncing the audio correctly when I have imported the track into Premier. And that is over firewire, where it comes in as a single stream. Pretty strange. Yup, the title might be the confusing item here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 I am not quite sure about how this could happen, but it sounds to me like the MD lower (16/32khz?) sample rate is being played back on the CD as though it were 16/44.1. This would yield about 20% or so slow. While this will happen in Sound Forge or other editors if you load a lower sample rate into a higher rate workspace, I've not heard about it happening in hardware before. But that is what it sounds like. In fact, if it is sounding "slowmo" but otherwise intact, it is the only explanation. Did you upsample to 44.1 before burning the CD? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RIGGED_ Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 I am not quite sure about how this could happen, but it sounds to me like the MD lower (16/32khz?) sample rate is being played back on the CD as though it were 16/44.1. This would yield about 20% or so slow. While this will happen in Sound Forge or other editors if you load a lower sample rate into a higher rate workspace, I've not heard about it happening in hardware before. But that is what it sounds like. In fact, if it is sounding "slowmo" but otherwise intact, it is the only explanation. Did you upsample to 44.1 before burning the CD? Dave Dave, I'm one of those who hooks up stuff and runs with it, not too technical I'm afraid, so no unsampling was done. One thing I haven't tried is recording DVD audio to MD, then record the DVD copy to CD. RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RIGGED_ Posted June 20, 2010 Author Share Posted June 20, 2010 I didn't read anywhere that he mentioned DVDs. You are the one who brought it up to begin with. I only see where he mentions a CD and MD recorder and making clean copies, but the OP doesn't mention what the source material is. Cheers I guess I surmised it from the title of the thread ... my bad. Sorry about that fellas, I should have noted the source type in my message. RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 close ... when a 48k sampled signal is interpreted as 44.1K, you are playing (recording it, in this case) 44.1/48 % as fast as it should be ... ~ 8% too slow. You can think of it in the same way as slow motion video is actually recorded at MORE frames per second but played at normal speed ... except HERE we are just dealing with audio samples. MD (decks anyway) always were able to distinguish sample rates ... maybe because they had to perform their ATRAC compression or maybe to accommodate their DAT cousin ... or maybe some other reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 OK, there is still some confusion here. Are we talking DVD-Audio, 24/96 or 24/192, or DVD audio, at 24/48? In either event, it would be downsampled by the MD. I was wrong about the MD bit rate, it's 44.1 like Redbook. However, it is processed by ATRAC, the proprietary Sony codec and compressed to 292...roughly that of a "high quality" MP3. I've not heard it, but users suggest it sounds better than MP3 and many claim it as good as Redbook. No comment since I have no experience...but I rather doubt it. In any event, what little I was able to glean suggested that the Sony software "SonicStage" is required to transcode to Redbook PCM for CD burning from MD tracks. MD has limped along since the early '90's but there are many better ways to record available now that offer less proprietary lossless encoding...the Korg MR-1 certainly being the most cost effective and accurate at low cost. I still suspect somethiing like what I (and the poster below) described as the cause of the apparent "slowmo" playback. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerohm Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 OK, there is still some confusion here. Are we talking DVD-Audio, 24/96 or 24/192, or DVD audio, at 24/48? In either event, it would be downsampled by the MD. I have been ASSUMING that we are talking about the audio track off a STANDARD Video DVD, because he stated the MD recorded it just FINE and I am SURE that a Sony MD (Deck) can accept THESE various sample rates 32K, 44.1K, and 48K and convert to its native 44.1K. I am also REASONABLY sure that it can NOT accept anything higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 a Sony MD (Deck) can accept THESE various sample rates 32K, 44.1K, and 48K and convert to its native 44.1K. I am also REASONABLY sure that it can NOT accept anything higher. You're doing well, but one thing I've learned here is never to make assumptions. I suspect we could cut this whole thread rather short if Rigged would precisely define his equipment chain, any software used, and the type of original disc involved (DVD-A or DVD). However, as I said, I think you are correct and that the material is not being downsampled from the 48khz and the CD burner what it was told, and the CD player (a further assumption: the CD player is a DVD unit) is mixing its metaphors, so to speak, yielding 48hz played temporially at 44.1. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RIGGED_ Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 Sony CD Recorder-Model RCD W10 Sony MD Recorder MDS JE330 Sony DVD Player DVP S330 DVD Audio-Omar and the Howlers Live in Germany No software was used, digital output from DVD Player to both recorders. The MD recording sounded just fine, the CD recording like 610 traffic at 5pm. RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 the CD recording like 610 traffic at 5pm. Cum'on, I'd KILL for 610 traffic only 8% slow...[] OK, as you didn't specify the precise path, I am going to speculate... DVD to each device. The MD has internal ATRAC software to handle either digital or analog input. so it's fine. You're going into the CD burner digital, and being a Redbook device expects Redbook. Doesn't get it. So it records what it THINKS is Redbook and plays it back as Redbook...but having a larger word length it plays back slow by the percentage of the difference between 44.1 and 48. How we doin'? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_RIGGED_ Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 That's it in a nutshell Dave. Oh well, I though I'd give it a shot. How the heck have you been doin Dave? Ready for another hurricane errr Oilcane season? This time I'll be better prepared, got me a 8000 Watt generator, dehumidifiers, window units, and a 55 gallon drum for petrol.........not! RIGGED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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