seventeenmonkeys Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 i t would seem fron the subject of this thread that i was looking for a cheap sub. but what i really want to know is what is the cheapest sub one could get and still have a quality product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Go to crutchfield.com and look at their home subwoofers. I have heard almost all of the sub $200 subs they have and they are all decent. They will make a bookshelf system sound TWICE AS GOOD. No joke. A nice 8" subwoofer is a great accesory to a small stereo. As you are asking about CHEAP subs, I will not start the "SPEND MORE" blabbering. The Sony and Yamaha subs are very nice, for a small budget. If you can get a cheap Polk ,those are also excellent. Enjoy, WHAT application? ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Pidass Posted March 26, 2002 Share Posted March 26, 2002 Define cheap. If you want a sub for $200 or thereabouts, I'd suggest you won't get much of a sub at all. More like a woofer, maybe. Remeber a Sub needs to extend below the frequencty of a woofer to be a true "SUB" woofer (below 30 hz for instance). It should do so with autority and not rolling off at 30 hz. The answer to your question will vary for many people. To me a "decent" sub is one that goes well with good mains. Cornwalls or the like will need a Paradigm PW2200 or higher to qualify. Lesser speakers may require something less. Sorry I couldn't give you a more definite answer. Regards, Stu ------------------ '81 Cornwall 1 mains B2 Crossover '73 Heresy Centre '78 Heresy Surrounds Paradigm PW220 Sub Subwoofer (18 hz) Marantz SR8000 AV Receiver Hitachi 53" RPTV 53SBX59B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 Cheap subs and Co. I HATE cheap and weak so called subs that are weak at 30Hz and sound like wounded elephants when they attempt to reach over 100dB below 40Hz.PATHETIC Did I say cheap subs are good for the trash compactor? Speaking as the resident sub master blaster freak-O-subhuman I say 1) Beware of compact subs priced under $500 they are all pathetic and weak with no real sub bass(as Stu Pid A$$ said a true sub has power at 30Hz).Cheapest real compact subwoofers are from Sunfire,the Super Junior has around 105dB output at 30Hz!And its a 9" cube!!!! The Velodyne SPL800 gets whipped like a bug in output at 30Hz,under 96dB at 30Hz!And the other ultra compact subs are not even worthy of a beating. 2)Beware of any so called sub under $300,dumpster material quality and poor bass or boomy noise and no real clean sub bass.Cheapest great quality full size subs are from SVS,HSU and Paradigm.Many models under $600!The SVS CS and HSU reign supreme,Paradigm 2200 close after Simply put "subs" under $200 DO NOT EXIST unless all you want is 60Hz boom boom and poor "bass" definition. Yes you could build a great $200 sub,as doit yourself kits exist,you will still need an amp and then again cost soars upwards $350. And if you see a brand name and a sale on a "brand name sub"with a band pass design turn and run away.The greatest stinker I heard was made by Sony and it was a band pass design,simply worhless junk with one notey boom boom.I had violent urge to take a sledge hammer and remodel the unit. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I got a beautiful, walnut veneered M&K Volkswoofer (12" sealed) off ebay for $137.50. It's being used in a 20' x 30' cathedral ceiling room and really sounds great with my Cornwalls. Bass is low, tight, and defined. Regards, Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 go to a plac elike tweeter home entertainment. in the back they have returned items. saw a Mirage FRx-S12 12" 150 watt front firing $650... on sale for only $270. That is a HUGE price cut, and it sounded great. No scratches, not a single imperfection that i could see or hear. Tweeter has great stuff in the back, as I am sure just about any decent audio store does. ppl get it and say too much bass... return it. you benefit ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 27, 2002 Share Posted March 27, 2002 I bought the clearance Klipsch KSw200 for $250 and liked it so much i got a Klipsch LF10 for $450 off Ubid. The older KSW200 sub is a simple downward firing 12 driver in a large dark gray box driven by a modest 200 watts. Compared to the packed high tech cubes of today, it seems like a big empty box of yesterday. The older KSW200 booms more than bangs, woofs more than rumbles. Klipsch has updated their line of subs since two years ago, but the current models resemble the KSW200. Both subs share the same 40 to 120 Hz cross-over range, but the LF10 rolls off faster (36 dB vs. 24 dB) above 120 Hz. It is this roll-off that clearly shows the difference between the two subs. The frequency response curve on the older model peak at 63 HZ on all EQ settings, while the LF10 peaked lower 40 Hz. My extensive SPL testing in various configurations reveal that the KSW200 fits into the measured frequency response of the Cornwalls with no EQ (40 Hz) and ¼ volume, in this room. The volume and EQ knobs on the KSW200 can be dialed up to intrude on the bottom end of full range speakers, creating a floppy, boomy sound in the bass. When playing quality CDs, I initially set the subs to their flattest overall response. When I did that on the KSW200 it filled in the bottom octave, but it also added boomy upper bass. Dialing back the volume and/or EQ settings removed the boom, but also reduced the output below 60 Hz, down to the point where the lowest frequencies were not audible at normal listening levels. That is what I meant when I said the KSW200 intruded on the Cornwalls. In order to hear the low bass, one has to dial the volume level so high that interferes with the mid-bass. Without the intrusion of the KSW200 into the upper bass regions of 100-200 Hz, even the 250 Hz range, the warm mid-range of the Cornwalls stands out. For a $150 more, the LF10 is not so much a better machine than the KSW200, as it is a different one. At closeout prices, I rate it 4 stars for sound quality, not quite the awesome best: and 4 stars for value, not quite an outright steal. For a little extra money, the LF10 bass notes are slightly tighter, harder and faster than the simpler model. The low-end frequency response of the smaller cube rolls off faster and peaks lower than the older, bigger brother. ------------------ Colin's Music System Cornwall 1s & Klipsch subs; lights out & tubes glowing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventeenmonkeys Posted March 28, 2002 Author Share Posted March 28, 2002 Basically my original post was to ask the starting point at which i was going to get a good sub. of course this means i want to spend the least possible but if it means i have to spend minimum 500 bucks then so be it. i wanted to know the subwoofer that you guys all like and is the cheapest of that quality you can think of. Hey! "thaEar" since we're both from montreal can you recommend any good places where i could find good equipment at good prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 28, 2002 Share Posted March 28, 2002 A KLF-10 or 12 should be fine. They can be had for under $500. If you can find somthing used, all the better. As Quebec (listing TheEAR ) is mostly made up of mayonasse shops, I don't know how much used audio gear you can find in Quebec. Shipping for a used budget sub could be harsh. I think you would very much enjoy a 12" Klipsch sub, as it will get you into the bass world at a fair price. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orthj Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 In my opinion, the PW-2200 is one of the best for the dollar, it is as good as subs costing 2X as much (not bs, I know, because I've had subs that cost nearly 2X as much). They are so desired that they are VERY hard to find used. Occassionally you see one on Ebay or Audiogon but they don't last long. I got mine new for 650 if memory serves. I've also listened to the Paradigm PS1000, and is actually kept up admirably with my Klipsch Forte IIs, until I got LOUD...You can find PS1000s for 3-400 used, slightly more new (5-550). If they still make the PS1200 this is also good, hell, even there little eight incher, the PS800 is nice with smaller speakers in a more modest system. I really like the Paradigms ------------------ James D. Orth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Stay far away from the PS series.The PS series(800,1000 and 1200) are one notey band pass subs. I had the PS800(my first sub ever)and the PS1000,while these are great HT subs(lotsa BOOM for the $)they perform poorly with music.As well get a KSW(sounds way better then the Paradigm PS series). The 2200 and Servo-15 are in another league.The best buy is the 2200,this beast has not only power but good sub bass definition. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 I agree with TheEar. stay away from the PS series. ------------------ http://members.fortunecity.com/sebdavid - go laugh at my crappy website/equipment http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mc.asp?alias=Sebdavid - go laugh at my puny little DVD collection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventeenmonkeys Posted March 29, 2002 Author Share Posted March 29, 2002 actually i was looking at maybe a ksw 10 or ps series but i guess the ps is now out of the question. right now though i'm thinking of jumping in the price range of a ksw 12, is this the best way to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 The KSW-12 will do you well. Well made, well priced, good sound. What more could you ask for. I know this is really pushing it, but have you considered smasking your piggy bank open and splurging on a KSW-15? ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 As Ken said the KSW12 is a great choice if money is sparse. Now since he is about to smash the piggy bank open lets continue on the sub quest get a RSW10...wait a RSW12...wait a Sunfire Mark II....wait Sunfire Signature...wait a minute a Revel B15 or Velodyne HGS18...oh as well get a SVS Ultra/SS ...oh to hell with budget go for the Aerial SW12. Seriously the KSW12 would be a great choice TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APPLEBITE Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 the KSW-10/12 or the PW2200 would be your best bet for the money. If you want an even better "bang for your buck" then maybe consider getting into DIY. A 12" driver (adire Audio Shiva) is $125, 250 watt rms Plate amp is $135 (Parts Express #300-794), and materials would be less than $100. This sub would able to compete with subs costing well over $1000 bucks if you put it in the right box. If your interested in the DIY way, go over to Hometheaterforum.com and check out the DIY forum. ------------------ JVC 36" tv Technics DA-10 Reciever Klipsch KSW-10 sub Klipsch RC-3 II Center Klipsch RB-3 Surounds Nuance Fronts Hitachi DV-P415U dvd player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 AppleSauce, "This sub would able to compete with subs costing well over $1000 bucks if you put it in the right box." Not the SVS CS-Plus and the CS-Plus is well under a grand.And for $1000 US I get two Paradigm 2200 and they beat this DIY into the floor. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seventeenmonkeys Posted April 4, 2002 Author Share Posted April 4, 2002 can you give approximate canadian prices of what the ksw 12 would cost and how much the pw2200 would cost here in montreal, if i bought them new, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 Welcome fellow Quebecker(not to be taken the bad way) As a Quebecker and Klipscher deluxe Klipsch KSW12 retails for $750CAN but should be sold for about $550CAN. Paradigm 2200 retails for $950 but should be sold for $700CAN. The Paradigm 2200 is way superior to the KSW12,in output,sub bass capability and constriction quality.And the 250W amp as opposed to the 100W Klipsch amp. In Canada a 2200 goes for $700CAN(this is about $450US!).At $450US who can beat this combination of construction,bass quality and output?Nobody unless you go DIY,there results vary. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon-TSI Posted April 5, 2002 Share Posted April 5, 2002 I am in the same decision making process, and was wondering on how the SVS subs stack up against the Klipsch and Paradigm subs. Even though their entry level product (20-39CS eg) is slightly more at $449 US or $649 US with 350w amp, I am really thinking of getting one of these shipped here to Canada from what I've been hearing about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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