Khorn placement as fronts in a diamond-shaped room?

[jcm]

I have a curious issue. The only room in my house that will accomodate a home theater is a large 20x20 room above my garage. The issue is that all of the side walls have either a window or a door in their centers. So right now I have the TV in a corner, center and sides right next to the TV, and the surrounds are pretty much in the corners flanking the TV (actually a little bit farther back).

I am looking at replacing the fronts with Khorns (a lifetime dream), and I don't see how I can make this work. To be corner-loaded, I would have to put the Khorns in the corners where I now have the surrounds. The surrounds would end up pushed nearly in the back corner (opposite the TV), making them rears more than surrounds. I'm not too worried about the placement of the surrounds, as they are RS-62s and thus send sound all over the place. What I am concerned about is imaging from two Khorns loaded directly right and left of the sitting area... For two channel it is probably OK, but will it mess up the HT?

[twistedcrankcammer]

JCM,

Square rooms are an acoustical nightmare!

Bite the bullet and put the TV in front of the window, or build a pair of false corner.

Roger

[jcm]

Wife vetoed putting the TV in front of a window. False corners will get a similar veto unless I go all out and build ornate false corners, which I do not have the carpentry skills to pull off.

The square room is definitely a problem, although the ceiling adds its own complications. The room has a flat top about 8' tall in the center, but the walls come down to just over 5' at the corners. Think dormers from hell. It actually helps reduce standing waves and other problems by making the sound travel all over the place. Not sure what it will do with the Khorns.

So given that putting the TV in front of a window/door is not an option, my original question still stands: what will happen to the imaging if two Khorns are places diametrically opposed to each other, instead of in adjacent corners?

[twistedcrankcammer]

How about enclosig the backs on a pair of klipschorns?

Placement from your picture stinks, I hope you think she is worth giving your satchel up for, I'm married and still have mine! I have big ugly black splatter painted pro Cornerhorns called Klipsch TSCMs. She HATES them, what do I care? Your wife should have no say in it.... Do you tell her she can't do this or that with the kitchen because it is too feminine? Unless she wants treated that way, it is none of her buiseness, but that is just my oppinion, and I live by it. I don't want to piss you off, or chase you away from the forun, because there are a great bunch of guys here, as well as a lady or two. We can't all be as lucky as DTEL, whos wife loves his Klipsch speakers which are twice the size of Klipschorns. Anyhow, welcome... come stay with us a while, and become a member of the madness. Closing the backs like 60th aniversary Klipschorns is a viable option. Your opposing corners solution is a last resort. I used to have oiled oak 1998 Klipschorns before I upgraded. One final thought... Get the speakers first, then tell her where they are going to be... []

Roger

[DrWho]

Any reason in particular you want to go the Khorn route?

The reason I ask is that given your situation, I would suggest investigating other speakers that would allow LR placement that gives you a 60 degree arc at the main listening position (which would require pulling the speakers away from the corners and closer to the TV). I've tried the 180 deg arc you're asking about and it just doesn't sound right...especially for movies.

Speakers I would recommend looking into include the following:

• Jubilee
• Palladium P39F
• LaScala
• RF-83
• Cornwall

None of these speakers require corner placement and the Jubilee and P39F are probably going to sound better than Khorns anyway...

[twistedcrankcammer]

JCM,

Grasshopper makes a good point here. Jubilees are the final design Paul Klipsch worked on. They are better then Klipschorns if you can swing $7,000 for a new set. The Bass bin has a pair of 12 inch drivers instead of a single 15 like Klipschorns, and Jubilee has enclosed backs so they work in the corners or elsewhere. If you are looking on the used market, then considder La Scalas or Belles. [Y]

Belles have a higher wife acceptance factor then La Scalas.

Roger

[jcm]

Roger,

I'm happy that you have a slave-holding agreement with your wife, but I was born in the 20th century, so I actually *like* my wife. Plus I hate the idea of covering up my awesome view of the Texas hill country with the finest TV Sony sold in 1995.

But back to the problem:

I am considering buying a pair of Khorns that a guy renovated, with collars on the backs (not closed, just grille cloth). I looked at the false corners method, and I would probably be better off buying Belles than going that route. In fact, that is what I am thinking might be the right way to go. Only problem with Belles is that there are pretty massive, and if you look at the placement options flanking the TV, they would have the equivalent toe-in of 45 degrees, which will probably be another issue to have to deal with.

As for Palladiums, I don't want speakers that cost as much as a new car. If I were to spend that kind of money I would probably get MBL-101e Radialstrahlers just so that I could tell people why I had 1500 lbs of speaker gear in my room.

I was originally sold on the RF-83s, which would match the rest of my system, but at the cost differental between those and the Khorns I just couldn't resist the upgrade. The RF-83's have a bit unnatural bass as well. Could just be me, but I love the effortless bass of a fully loaded horn woofer. I was at a Klipsch dealer years ago when the 83's had just come out. This dealer had everything from RF-62s up to Khorns, and everything in between, including the full lineup of Heritage. He played some music, then slowly worked his way from speaker to speaker, starting with the entry level and ending with the Khorns. The difference between the 83s and the Heritage line was well defined to me. I know that if I get the 83s I will just need to upgrade again one day, and as I don't own a money tree, I figured I would just save up and go with the Khorn and never look back. Unfortunately my house doesn't really have a lot of corners (I live in Texas, where houses sprawl, with vaguely defined "living areas").

So, solution #1 is go with Belles or Cornwalls instead of Khorns. Not my preferred route, but I get the same mid and treble as the Khorn without screwing up the aesthics. So not bad.

[jcm]

There are a nice-looking pair of Belles on Audiogon (link), but the ad is a little scary. Anybody know this guy?

[jcm]

Just looked at the Jubilees on the Klipsch site. I'm sure they sound awesome, but that isn't quite what I'm looking for. For some reason it looks like the speaker is yelling at you. Must be the midrange horn that is big enough to put your head in. If Darth Vader had a home theater, those are his surrounds.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Just looked at the Jubilees on the Klipsch site. I'm sure they sound awesome, but that isn't quite what I'm looking for. For some reason it looks like the speaker is yelling at you. Must be the midrange horn that is big enough to put your head in. If Darth Vader had a home theater, those are his surrounds.

JCM,

Check out my buddy Kevin Harmons Jubilee settup under Heavy Duty Bass with minimal distortion under the 2-channel section.

By the way, that 402 horn lense on top is slightly larger then a La Scala! Paul meant for the Jubilee to replace the Klipschorn as a home speaker and be beutifully veneered, but the company now sells them as Pro Theatre speakers, hense the flat blackk finish. One pair has been produced with a front wood veneer beuty panel and sold to a forum member here for an additional cost. []

Since you were a Klipsch Dealer, The difference between Jubilee and Klipschorn is an OMG! moment, just like the first time you ever heard a set of Klipschorns! [Y] You hear everyone talk about them, but it can't really be that much better then Klipschorn right? Just like the first time you ever heard Klipschorn and your jaw dropped... same thing, that much more articulate than Klipschorn was to anything you heard prior! If you had told me that before I heard them I would have yelled [bs] at you, but it is true.

I don't see what makes you concerned about the Belle add? Except being incorect on the throat diameters of the tweeter and the K-55 driver, he seems knowledgable. If they are within picking up range, go get them and pay cash, rent a U-Haul. There are several threads on this forum with pictures on how to enclose the backs on Klipschorns as well. You cover from the rear splat board to the edge of the side bass bin grill cloth on both sides. You could do this yourself with minimum tools and minimum experience.

As for slaves, no slave hear, just a man that does not tuck his tale and let a woman waltz on me. Step out of yourself and look at it from the outside; Do you tell your wife what dresses she can buy or wear? Do you tell your wife that she has to do anything your way? As long as it doesn't interfere with retirement or the kids coledge fund, my wife can do pretty much anything, and I won't say anything, why? Because we are men, and we really don't get stressed out about little insignificant crap like that. Who descides what is in the Kitchen? She Does. Bathroom? she does. Bedroom? She does. Dining room? She does. Do we treatthem like crap and don't speak to her for a week if we don't get our way? No! Is it fair that I have a shop and a entertainment room that she can use, but she doesn't get a say over how any of it looks? Weigh both sides, it is more then fair. She can do as she pleases with the rest, but I get my space. If you can't stand up for yourself, nobody else will, and it is a very sad trend in this country. How come you can stand up to me, a 6'3" guy at 230 pounds that can harm you, but can't stand up and reason on something that is fair and reasonable with your own wife?

Oh, by the way, I just spent several months down in San Antonio, and you won't be covering up much covering up the view of "the hill country"

Roger

[laager]

Why not dump the TV?

Get a projector. Get a motorised screen that will drop down over a window when in use. You're not viewing the countryside when watching the idiot box.

Problem solved, and you get to actually 'hide' the TV screen when not in use for WAF brownie points.

[twistedcrankcammer]

Why not dump the TV?

Get a projector. Get a motorised screen that will drop down over a window when in use. You're not viewing the countryside when watching the idiot box.

Problem solved, and you get to actually 'hide' the TV screen when not in use for WAF brownie points.

Sounds like a good solution to me... [Y]

Roger

[jcm]

I'm sure the Julbilees sound great, but that doesn't overcome their inherent brashness. I don't value sound that much higher than aesthetics. I prefer something that looks like a million bucks while knocking me off my feet with sound. If I ever decide to build a dedicated HT room, I might look at the Jubilees hidden behind an opaque front wall. But for this room, I want class.

The Belles are unfortunately up in Minnesota, so a four-day U-Haul extravaganza is out of the question, as is a look at them before I buy. That's why I wanted to know if anybody knew this guy and/or the speakers he is selling.

So a question about modding the Khorns: if you seal up the back, what does that do to the bass response? Would that just turn the basshorn into a infinite baffle enclosure? At which point it would perform worse than the Belle?

I thought about the projector idea, but the one thing you can't see in my diagram is the ceiling fan in the center of the room. And boy howdy does that room need it. The ceiling has minimal insulation before you hit the roof (no attic above), so the room gets HOT. Add a bunch of stereo equipment and you can roast marshmallows when the A/C kicks off.

I think I will get the Khorns regardless, and just see how they work in the room. I can always sell them and pick up some Belles if it doesn't work out.

Moved the marriage discussion off-line. Nobody reading a Klipsch forum needs to know our viewpoints on that.

[Ironsave]

I have seen Khorns with the false backs mounted on them, kinda looks like vents on each side..... They still look beautiful.....

Good luck with the final outcome; and FWIW, I like my future Wife also. [] (Isn't that the point?)

[Coytee]

I'm sure the Julbilees sound great, but that doesn't overcome their inherent brashness. I don't value sound that much higher than aesthetics. I prefer something that looks like a million bucks while knocking me off my feet with sound. If I ever decide to build a dedicated HT room, I might look at the Jubilees hidden behind an opaque front wall. But for this room, I want class.

You can get the black/fugly Jubilee (which I have) or you can spend a touch more on them and get them from the factory, like this.

I'm not ganging up on you, just making sure you are seeing the accurate picture and not skewed because of the website not showing these.

By the way, the website shows the Jubilee as a 3-way monster. For home use, we're using it as a 2-way monster dropping the tweeter horn (K510) but, we are moving the tweeter driver, down to the midrange horn (after losing the midrange driver).

Second thought....you said "solution #1 is go with Belles or Cornwalls instead of Khorns. Not my preferred route, but I get the same mid and treble as the Khorn without screwing up the aesthics. So not bad"

Though "close enough" they do not have the same mid horn as Khorns. (I'm just being retentive) The Khorn midrange uses the K400/401 and the Belle & Cornwall use a different midrange.

Where do you live? You might find it intersting to hear the Jubilee or perhaps a LaScala with the large Jubilee horn on top (K402). There are other mixes you can try like putting the smaller K510 on a LaScala for a 2-way speaker.

[jcm]

Coyotee,

Adding the wood finish definitely helps but the real issue is the megaphone-style horn. It's large and in charge, that's for sure.

So you just dropped the tweeter altogether, or did you move the tweeter frequencies to a more broadband driver? I admit the loss of the tweeter makes it look a whole lot more clean.

Can I use the basshorn slots to store CDs? []

I live outside of Austin, so if any Jubilee fans live nearby I'm happy to bring pizza for a listening party!

[Coytee]

Adding the wood finish definitely helps

Yes, I agree. When the early adopters bought their Jubilee's the choice was black....or black [] It's very cool that Klipsch is offering this modificaton at modest cost.

the real issue is the megaphone-style horn. It's large and in charge, that's for sure

I can't deny this BUT... I can tell you that it sounds absolutely stunning and in my world, would rather have the increase in sound quality and deal with the visuals. I've even wondered about simply pulling some acoustic fabric over the mouth....but to be honest, I like the looks of intimidation! There IS a smaller horn that you could use, the K510. If you used the smaller horn you could put it into a "Khorn style" top hat and make it much more tidy. No one has done this yet so it's a function of you imagining it correctly and then getting the top box built (or just set the K510 on top like some have done to their LaScalas)

So you just dropped the tweeter altogether

Negative. If you look at the 3-way version and if we might then call the BIG horn (the K402) the "midrange horn" then we have simply moved the tweeter DRIVER down to the midrange HORN and allow the new assembly to take care of business from approximately 500hz on up. We lose a crossover point which is a VERY good thing. The sound on these come together MUCH MUCH closer than they do with Khorns or LaScalas (I've owned Khorns and still own LaScalas)

Can I use the basshorn slots to store CDs?

And furry stuffed animals to make it more 'cutsey" []

I live outside of Austin, so if any Jubilee fans live nearby I'm happy to bring pizza for a listening party!

There is a Jubilee owner who actually lives in Austin however, I don't think he's got them set up yet. Do you get to Waco or Arlington (Dallas) at all? I know I can offer some homes up there for an audition.

[Coytee]

Here's the only picture I could find thusfar with the smaller horn on top.

The smaller horn sounds great as well but, won't control the sound in your room as well as the larger horn (everything is about trade-off's huh?!)

Now that you see the perspective of it, you might imagine a top hat built for it and simply placing that tophat on the bass bin, much like the Khorn is done.

[Y]

[twistedcrankcammer]

Richard,

You know I suck at posting pictures. Post this guy some pictures and a hot link to some Klipschorns with the enclosed back modification being done in case we can't sell him on Jubilee... []

Thanks.... Rog

[Coytee]

You know I suck at posting pictures. Post this guy some pictures and a hot link to some Klipschorns with the enclosed back modification being done in case we can't sell him on Jubilee...

My wife says I'm not allowed.... [6] and since she wears the pants..... [H]

Actually, I'm not sure that I HAVE any pictures of the closing of Khorns. I also don't know where the thread is. Do you know where? Truth be told, if he heard them for himself, there would be no 'selling' needed. They'll go toe to toe with just about anything on their own merits. Then again....you knew that. I'll search around for the closing the back threads.

[Y]