Vonrebel Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 It is no secret I think my new RF-7s should produce harder hitting bass. Not necessarily lower but more thump, or I have heard the word slam. A have been informed by other speaker companies NHT, B&W.., and sales people that the higher the sensitvity (db's) the louder the speaker will play with less power. Yes we all agree. But, the trade off for high db's or sensitivity is the speaker is a less rich,lacking in bass and produces more distortion at higher volumes. This does seem to be accurate for me. I am starting to doubt the capabilities of the Yamaha RX-V3000. I would like to think the RF-7s could stand along without a subwoofer. How ever, I have ordered the Klipsch RSW 15". I realy wanted to go with the SVS, but in this case the price was right. There is no arguing the RF-7s clarity is clean, crystal clear. But at upper volume levels they begin to sound distorted, to my ears. Maybe these big boys require a sub? Or need more power (which doesn't seem likely, based on 102 db). May be the Yamaha 3000 jusy doesn't have enough motro? Maybe I need my hearing examed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klewless Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 vonrebel, "But at upper volume levels they begin to sound distorted, to my ears". You may be closer to the truth than you realize. Maybe it is your ears doing the distorting! Very easy thing to have happen with high sensitive speakers because it is soooo easy to get those babies up to very loud volumes with little effort. In my younger years I was witness to an experiment by a local hi fi dealer on that subject. He had his customer sit in front of the Khorns and they cranked the volume. Distortion ... distortion. Then we walked into the next room. Suddenly there was no trace of distortion in the sound!!!!! Ears can only take so much input. ------------------ John P St Paul, MN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 sensitivity is meaningless if you do not know what the standard of measurement is. it's frequency dependent. comapring speakers you have to compare apples to apples, not just the raw numbers. I do not know how the LLC measures sensitivity. My geuss is that they take 1000Hz / 2.83V /1m on axis. JBL pro for example take it over a broad range and produce a weighted average, a measurement that gives a much better indication of what will be heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 Vonrebel, I don't think its your receiver. I have the rx-v3000 hooked into ChorusII's and there is more than enough bass. No distortion (that I can hear) and I play things LOUD! Even at low levels, sounds even and clear with the bass sounding as it should. Take care Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 vonrebel---A highly sensitive speaker has more distortion at higher levels!?! Maybe your speakers but certainly not all, I suggest you listen to some good horns before taking that statement as a general one. Good horns are capable of much lower distortion than direct-radiators and at higher volumes, indeed at volumes direct-radiators can't even reach. Mind that NHT and BMW make speakers using cheap direct-radiating drivers and simply trying to make a virtue of neccessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 von, as for the bass, you do have sub:no selected since you're using no sub? just to make sure. maybe i can help you do some tweaking directly. & i'll bring a sound meter. better wait til you get that sub now. yammys aren't the warmest out there, but things can be done w/ the room too. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Daddy/Old Daddy Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 Have you considered room acoustics & speaker placement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 Moving enough air to make reference level bass is a task that requires specially designed cone loudspeakers (that's what subwoofers are supposed to be)... or truly enormous hornss>! Most full-range speaker designs tend to have a problem where low mid-range meets hi-bass that will sound like distortion... and that's fair because that's what it is. That is the reason that most pre-amps roll off at about 80-90Hz when speakers are set to "SMALL". There is no shame in having properly configured subwoofers doing what they do best. Additionally, relieving the Mains woofers from the long excursions required to create long bass waves... frees up the woofers to be faster and more precise in the areas where they do best. The addition of a subwoofer should be more a complement to good speaker design and not an attempt to shore up a weak one. RF-7's are well designed speakers... and as such they are very much rooted in the physics of this world... and deserve the companionship of other speakers to bring out their best. -HornED This message has been edited by HornEd on 04-06-2002 at 01:37 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 6, 2002 Share Posted April 6, 2002 does the rx-v3000 have the setting to send LFE to both the fronts & sub like other yammys? unlike most makers, yammy is one on the few i've seen that have this (most send all LFE to only to the sub out just as long as you have sub:yes). if so, you might try that setting, &, when you get the sub, try setting the rf-7 to large. then switch in the low pass crossover of the rsw & dial it down to taste (probably inside 40-60hz). then no LFE is lost by engagin the low pass of the rsw. still may sound better setting the fronts/rf-7 small & not using the low pass crossover on the rsw though. but a possibility to try maybe. horned knows my feelings on high pass filtering those big reference or legend towers at 90 or 80hz. of course w/ a capable sub like the rsw or svs it's not a real biggy (maybe). ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 04-06-2002 at 02:13 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrebel Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Thanks for taking time to respond, and sending support. Nothing like being feelig stuck with an (exspensive)new toy you can't get to function up to full expectations. The RSW 15" should arrive towards the end of the week, or begining of next week. Then the bass problem will be solved. I Still think I shouldn't have to invest additionsl finances on top the exspense of speakers, to hear some good hitting bass. As the situation is, the addition of a new Klipsch RSW 15", will surely put a simle on my face. Thus eliminating future exspressions of grief, allowing movement forward in positive upbeat mannor, combined with a mature happy attitude. Blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! as I was saying mature happy attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrebel Posted April 17, 2002 Author Share Posted April 17, 2002 Finally after many hours of complaining, asking questions, adjusting the receiver, moving speakers, making phone calls, the new RF-7s are finally Rockin and Rollin. It took the addition of the RSW-15 to bring the bass level up to where (I) could enjoy the RF-7s. (Was using the Velodyne 1012 VLF.) (There are other subs that will probably do the job, but wanted to have a matching set of speakers.) From day one it was never an issue listening to jazz or Home Theater, as the RF-7s played Jazz flawlessly and HT equally well. It was the heavy Metal and Rock music we couldn't get to sound right. Since the addition of the new sub, there are no more complaints. This sub is nice. It did seem to take a short while for the RSW-15 to either break in, or for my ears to adjust. At first I thought the new sub was defective. But then again I thought the RF-7s were defective at first too. ha! ha ha! The RF-7s are just a clean sounding speaker. And in my opinion and most everyone elses, thats listened to the RF-7s, says the same thing, where's the bass, you need a sub? (This of coarse is not the rule many people do not need a sub w/RF-7s.) We did try everything possible to bring out some bass with the RF-7s before invesing more money in a sub. Now that the money is spent, I can honestly say the RSW-15 was and is worth every penny,w/ no regrets. And might buy a second one. (Although one is sufficiant, two would be very sufficient.) It just takes TIME getting the right combination of equipment and then dialing everything in. For some it's probably fun tweaking in a system. For me it was work, and pain in the rear. But now that the work is over, my Friends, Family, Neighborhood and myself can sit back and enjoy. Next a good power amp and another RSW-15. Then I'm done.... Yamaha RX-V3000 RF-7s RC-7 RS-7s RSW-15 Velodyne 1012 Panasonic 51 HDTV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted April 17, 2002 Share Posted April 17, 2002 Next a good power amp and another RSW-15. Then I'm done.... yea von, i told myself that too some time ago. but what came knocking next? a new pre/pro, then a new 7 channel amp to better match it, and then... beware the addiction. in the meantime do enjoy though! ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonrebel Posted April 18, 2002 Author Share Posted April 18, 2002 Boa, I heard or (read) you or someone once call it up-grade-itis, heehee hee heeeee! I still want to demo your equipment. Don't know when though? Meantime thanks for the help. The system really sounds good now. I am very pleased with Klipsch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Vonrebel, how's that Yamaha working out for you now that you have a sub hangin' off of it? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 So in general is the Yamaha RX-V3000 a bright receiver? boa12 said they are not the warmest. Are they brighter than HK? Actually, who makes the brightest receiver? H/K, Yamaha, Denon etc etc? ------------------ Internet Software Engineer: Will code for HT upgrades. the m00n system RF-3II Front floors RC-3II Center RS-3II Surrounds RSW-12 Subwoofer Harman Kardon AVR 520 Toshiba SD 3205 DVD Samsung 27" Flatscreen c>f> This message has been edited by m00n on 04-18-2002 at 10:26 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 Moon-Unit it Sony then Yamaha ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted April 18, 2002 Share Posted April 18, 2002 mOOn, I can't speak for other receivers, I have only owned Yamaha. About 18 years ago I bought my first Yamaha receiver. I haven't looked back. They have always been reliable and to me, had a clean sound. As far as being "bright" I really think this receiver (RX-V3000) puts out what goes in. Everyones hearing is different. Surely, I am no sound expert. I have nothing here to compare...I just know what I like when I hear it. Yamaha is MY choice...and this receiver sounds OUTSTANDING, but that's only my oppinion. So many GOOD ones out there, you really should "test drive" several of them. Those three you listed have GOOD reputations. From what I have read, Yamaha is considered bright, Denon-warm. The ideal thing to do...take them to your house for a visit. Have fun there mOOn. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mikekid: The ideal thing to do...take them to your house for a visit. Ya, I am considering having a sleep-over with the Yamaha RX-V3200 ------------------ Internet Software Engineer: Will code for HT upgrades. the m00n system RF-3II Front floors RC-3II Center RS-3II Surrounds RSW-12 Subwoofer Harman Kardon AVR 520 Toshiba SD 3205 DVD Samsung 27" Flatscreen c>f> This message has been edited by m00n on 04-19-2002 at 12:17 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Mikekid: I just know what I like when I hear it. Yamaha is MY choice...and this receiver sounds OUTSTANDING Can Somebody say Halalula? LOL ------------------ go forth & hump the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikekid Posted April 19, 2002 Share Posted April 19, 2002 Good morning forrest! Although ideal, I have never had the opportunity to "compare" receivers in my home..only at the dealers. Ya..I prefer Yamaha. Have a nice day! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.