Guavamanh Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Hi Everyone... first post here (its going to be long and detailed): I first got into home theater when I was setting up my father in law's system 3-4 years ago. During my research I came across the Ultra2 setup and always drooled over it. Fast forward 4 years and many weekend jobs later: I finally got my dream speaker system used (KL-650 LCR + KA-1000 + Dual KW-120... will get a pair of KS-525 later). Unfortunately it's been kind of a bummer. I purchased a Yamaha RX-A2000 reciever to use with the speakers and it has been hell trying to figure out why the subs won't work. Here's a recap from all the help I recieved from AVS forums/Audioholics: * all speakers set to small w/ 80Hx crossover * both subs set as ON (tried L/R, front/rear and Monaural) * the sub is set at 0.0dB, volume knob at 1/2 on the external amp * power amp assign: 7 channel normal configuration * dual RCA cable to RX-A2000 "PREOUT Sub front and rear" (have also tried Y-split RCA cable) * dual RCA cable connected to Klipsch KA-1000 input (AMP), tried THX mode ON/OFF, Gain ON/OFF * dual Klipsch KW-120 (passive subs) connected to amps correctly with Speakon cables * AV3 set up with Xbox360 + HD-DVD material (set as component C + optical #3) * AV4 set up with TV cable box (HDMI 4) * decoding set up as "straight" as well as all other possible settings * speakers ok on TV/XBOX but with no subwoofer sound (just humming noise) * test tone = just humming noise from subs, when raised to max some VERY faint bass is heard * plugged everything back into my old reciever = everything works I assumed it was the Yamaha RX-A2000 receiver but looks like it may be both the Yamaha and the KA-1000: http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/91368/925257.aspx It's quite a bummer to think that my 5 year old $300 Yamaha reciever works pretty well with the speakers but the new >$1K receiver does not. I would return the reciever if I could, but it looks like I am unable to return the reciever to Newegg.com without incurring quite a bit of a loss (Shipping + Restocking Fees). Page 165 of the manual says the Yamaha RX-A2000's Output level for the Preout is 1.0V/1.2kOhms, http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/126090/1274680.aspx#1274680 the post by Trey Cannon states: "the amp is mono only. If you use the "Y" adaptor, you will get about 6db more signal to the amp. It will take 700mV of input to run the sub amp to full output. In THX mode it will take 3 V to get the sub to full output. BTW: full output is about 67 Volts.)" QUESTION 1: If it only takes 700mV of input to run the sub amp to full output, shouldn't 1.0V be good enough? I have tried both RCA Y-splitting and setting the subs as "Monaural" as well as with dual RCA and setting up the subs as L/R and Front/Rear. Regarding Trey Cannon's post: so I will never be able to set the subs as L/R or Front and Rear? Just Monaural? QUESTION 2: If it truly is too low of a voltage from the new receiver, the post above suggested a SMS-1 to amplify the signal to the KA-1000. Do you guys have any other recommendations for a cheaper alternative? (Hopefully under $200.. I'm hoping to spend less then the cost of returning the amp to Newegg.com) Thanks for all your help guys, I've been a reader of the forums for bit and always appreciated how helpful you guys are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironsave Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 Just read your (detailed) post. Welcome to The Forums! My first suggestion; you have covered by verifying the subs work with the old receiver. My second suggestion: Consider the possibility your new receiver is defective. Send it back for a replacement..... My .02..... Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted December 14, 2010 Klipsch Employees Share Posted December 14, 2010 Email me a number and a good time to call when you will be with the system...I bet we can get it going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted December 15, 2010 Author Share Posted December 15, 2010 Thanks for the offer, it is greatly appreciated. I've flashed the firmware and re-connected/re-setup the settings on everything and now everything is rocking! The subs are AMAZING... I've had to actually turn down the volume on the subs. I've been swamped with work, so I can't wait for the weekend to calibrate and play around with everything. The only problem I have left is a humming coming from the subs. From playing around with the system I found out that it is the result from connecting the cable box to any source (e.g. TV or receiver) with either a HDMI cable or component cable. If I disconnect the cable box there is no humming. I'm just using a cheap RCA split wire from radioshack... is this a possible result of the wire not being shielded enough? Thanks again for everyone's time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted December 15, 2010 Klipsch Employees Share Posted December 15, 2010 Glad you got it working...the hum is from the cable box. They do not care about 60Hz and the sub loves that note... Outside where the cable comes into the house there should be a ground wire going from the cable box to a copper rod in the ground. If that connection is not a good one it can cause hum. If you can prove it is the cable box / cable co. that is providing you with that 60Hz sound at no charge you may be able to contact them and have them keep that sound to themself's. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted December 20, 2010 Author Share Posted December 20, 2010 I'm moving into a new home in about 5-6 months, so hopefully the new house will not have the same problem. In the meanwhile, I recieved this over ther weekend: http://www.amazon.com/Scosche-Eso34-Ground-Loop-Isolator/dp/B00009UHL0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1292890637&sr=1-5 A breeze to set up, and worked for the hum. Watched Gone Baby Gone yesterday, and there's a scene where the guys are in a SUV with some gangster rap. My wife was amazed at the bass and how clean it was. KL-650 LCR were sweet for dialogue and were very dynamic. Also spent some time with Joan Armatrading and Jack Johnson... wife says she'd actually listen to Jack Johnson now (didn't like his voice before). Currently saving up for the KS-550 pair for the rears. Can't wait to set everything up in the new house and really crank up the volume! =) Thanks everyone for your help... it was greatly appreciated. [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Were the settings you received from the AVS Forums (listed above) correct? My subs (same as yours) are working, but I feel like something may be missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 The final setting was first sub on, second sub off on the Yamaha RX-A2000, used a RCA Y-split to the KA-1000 AMP. It's working really well now... the bass is really clean! Did you calibrate the sound yet? Maybe want to double check the settings if you used YPAO because I heard it tends to set all the speakers as large and the cross over setting may not be where you want it. My speakers are all set to small with cross over at 80Hz. Then I calibrated with a SPL meter. Hope that helps =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Do the two subs need to be positioned together (side by side)? Mine are set up in each front corner of the room facing forward. The Klipsch pictures show the subs together -- does this type of placement matter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You'll get a little more output if they're located together and the chances of cancellation are eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 You'll get a little more output if they're located together and the chances of cancellation are eliminated. This may be a dumb question, but can I stack them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted January 12, 2011 Author Share Posted January 12, 2011 http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/multiple-subwoofer-setup-calibration-1 Here's a link to a subwoofer setup guide from Audioholics. In that guide is also a link for multi-sub setup. Right now I have both of mine in the corner, but when I move I intend to place both up front about 1/4 length of wall. Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 You'll get a little more output if they're located together and the chances of cancellation are eliminated. This may be a dumb question, but can I stack them? Most certainly. Be careful to protect the finish on the bottom sub and check it periodically to make sure it's not trying to walk off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted January 13, 2011 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 13, 2011 I pefer the stacked...they don't move due to the rubber feet and 76lbs. I tell everyone to not use the THX setting...it takes 3 volts in to get the max of 66 volts in THX mode...(Red lights on) it only takes 0.75 V to get the same out in NON-Thx mode (green lights) I also do not like the "auto setup" in most if not all receivers. They tend to "re-EQ" the system and for the most part I don't like that. I have mine right and left with my mains on top of each sub just becaues I had no way to mount the mains... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 I just re-ran the microphone test that comes with Pioneer Elite receivers. Under something called "Expert" settings I played with something called "Base Peak Settings" -- this was cool. It starts the subs at 80 and then you can change the level -- I got down to almost 0 and my walls were almost shaking -- I could hear stuff on the wall moving. Anyone else try this? Is this the way I make my subs rumble more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Bumping post after the weekend -- want to ensure that I am not damaging my system per the previous post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 From a google search it sounds like you used the MCACC on your Pioneer receiver which is a Room EQ program (like Audyssey is for Denon and YPAO for Yamaha). As Trey mentioned, it's best to review the settings after you run the program because it may not be set up correctly. For mine (YPAO) it set up incorrect speaker size and cross overs, so I switched to 80Hz and all speakers small after running the program. Usually the system gets the levels and the distance pretty good though (from what I've read). I still like to check it with an SPL meter. All this info can be found on www.audioholics.com Not sure what the 80 to 0 numbers mean with your Pioneer. Which model do you have? In mine (Yamaha RX-A2000) it goes from -10dB to +10dB (minus being softer, positive being more output). The YPAO actually lowered it to -8.5dB, but currently I'm setting it at -5dB. The goal for some is to reproduce what the sound is supposed to be like "reference", whereas others take a "what sounds best to them" approach. It really depends on your room situation as well. Right now my setup is in my bedroom so the subs are overkill (thus the -5dB), but once I move into the house it will be closer to 0dB. I like to set it up and then tweak the sound to how I like it. Sounds like you're set up with max output right now. I think +10dB on the subs would freak me out and bring the house down =p. I've never set any of my speakers that high... but hopefully someone with experience with a Pioneer setup can chime in. Not sure if it would damage the subs. Good luck with your setup! Here's another link I found for subwoofer set up: http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/article_560.shtml I have an Avia disc http://www.amazon.com/Avia-Guide-to-Home-Theater/dp/B0041EQOFQ/ref=sr_1_4?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1295287907&sr=1-4 , but have been thinking about getting the Disney Wow Bluray: http://www.amazon.com/Disney-WOW-World-Wonder-Blu-ray/dp/B0045ASBLG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295287854&sr=8-1 My friends like Digital Video Essentials: http://www.amazon.com/Digital-Video-Essentials-Basics-Blu-ray/dp/B000V6LST0/ref=sr_1_1?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1295287886&sr=1-1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kde Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 When does someone use a "Y" connector with these subs and KA-1000? Right now I have a Belkin subwoofer cable running from my AVR to the top left plug on the KA-1000. What does the "Y" connection offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guavamanh Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Does your AVR have output for 2 subs? I'm trying to find the forum link, but I read somewhere that using the Y-splitter gives a bump in sub output (increase in "dynamic gain"), whereas using separate L/R output to the KA-1000 may result in more defined bass but less output... Unfortunately for us, it seems that the KA-1000 + KW.120 dual sub combo is not able to independantly set sub levels from sub 1 and sub 2 (from what I've read and experienced with my Yamaha RX-A2000 which has independent dual sub capabilities). So I ended up using a Y-splitter to keep things simple and increase output even though it's overkill bass in my set up right now (level is set to -5dB after calibration). I'm going to play around with all the settings again once I move into the new house in the summer. If anyone else here has different info I'd love to hear it... this is just what I gleaned from the forums when I was trying to figure this stuff out... I'll see if I can dig up the forum links I'm referring to EDIT: here's a link refering to the increase in output: "Splitting the subwoofer output and feeding both the Left and Right inputs on the sub results in a +6 dB gain in voltage" http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=787665 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 EDIT: here's a link refering to the increase in output: "Splitting the subwoofer output and feeding both the Left and Right inputs on the sub results in a +6 dB gain in voltage" http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=787665 The voltage doubles but it does not increase the maximum output of the sub. You can do the same thing by turning up the gain on the sub or bumping the sub output level in the receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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