JBryan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm trying to reset my horns and can't remember what the distance is from the K33 magnet to the face of the cabinet. Does anyone have that information or can you direct me to a blowup of a loaded Khorn with that measurement? I did a cursory search but couldn't find anything. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I recall reading that from center of the woofer slot, to exit, was 64 inches. That does not include distance from the motorboard to the cone, dust cap, voice coil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks Speakerfritz. What 'm looking for is the straight line distance from the front of the K33 magnet to the face of the Khorn. I measured this when I installed the woofers a while back and I should've written it down somewhere or made a mark but I didn't think that far ahead. I've been moving the top horn around a bit and want to keep the coil in the same line as the woofer. I found some plans on the net but they don't specify the distance nor the scale but I may pull out a scale and figure it out - roughly, in centimeters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 What 'm looking for is the straight line distance from the front of the K33 magnet to the face of the Khorn. This is ballpark, not definitive or exact, but it looked to me like about 5" or so from the face of the K-horn back to the front mounting surface of the K-33. My drawing from a few years ago when I was trying to sort some of this out: The drawing is outdated or incomplete on a few counts: I did not have an actual measure of the thickness of the veneered front wall of the bass horn. For all I know, the front wall has more than one layer. Ignore the pink pyramical x-sections, which were peculiar only to my bass bins (and are no longer there). The separate woofer "mounting board" was discontinued in the early 1970's. The woofer apparently has been mounted directly on the motorboard since then. See http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/38731/350047.aspx#350047. Hope this helps. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 "I've been moving the top horn around a bit and want to keep the coil in the same line as the woofer" Can't be done. Due to the folding, the woofer is several feet behind the midrange. A DSP crossover and an extra amp will work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks Speakerfritz. What 'm looking for is the straight line distance from the front of the K33 magnet to the face of the Khorn. I measured this when I installed the woofers a while back and I should've written it down somewhere or made a mark but I didn't think that far ahead. I've been moving the top horn around a bit and want to keep the coil in the same line as the woofer. I found some plans on the net but they don't specify the distance nor the scale but I may pull out a scale and figure it out - roughly, in centimeters. Not knowing your purpose.....just want to make sure you understand that the physical alignment.....acoustical alignment....and electrical alignment are all different things. on a folded horn system, doing a physical alignment of driver motors only won't produce an acoustical alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 22, 2011 Author Share Posted January 22, 2011 Thanks guys. I do understand the basic physics of acoustic alignment and time alignment is provided through my xover. That said, I played around with the top horn mount several years back and found (quite by accident) that I got good measurements and the best imaging with the drivers lined up. I had taped the position of the horn mount but the tape has since peeled away - D@#n drafting tape! Other projects took over and the system sat idle for a long while but I am now back into the game and of course, I felt compelled to start adjusting this and that and before I realized my folly, the horns had been repositioned. I just want to remark the original position so I have something to gauge my progress and can reset the horns if I need to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 It went in one ear and right out the other.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 23, 2011 Share Posted January 23, 2011 I am now back into the game and of course, I felt compelled to start adjusting this and that and before I realized my folly, the horns had been repositioned. I just want to remark the original position so I have something to gauge my progress and can reset the horns if I need to. I suspect that any discrepancy under 12" would be hard to hear, especially considering that the stock Khorn squawker/woofer horn length difference is around 45" or so, and yet the sound was satisfactory to PWK and most Khorn fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share Posted January 23, 2011 Thanks again for all your replies. I'm not concerned about time alignment but when I was putting the speakers together, I used the measurement as a reference point and unfortunately, marked the stands' position with drafting tape which has since moved. I have no doubt that keeping the coils on the same line has little to do with any alignment concerns but coincidentally, the measurements I took located the Oris horn at that spot. I could just as easily make another reference point but I took a lot of measurements based on that original mark and would like to re-create it so I can reset the Oris horn without starting all over. Thanks again for the help but really, with all the builders and Khornophiles 'round here, I assumed some one would know the actual distance between the woofer and front of the Khorn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I suspect that any discrepancy under 12" would be hard to hear, especially considering that the stock Khorn squawker/woofer horn length difference is around 45" or so, and yet the sound was satisfactory to PWK and most Khorn fans. What you want to do is to be within 1/4 wavelength (90 degrees) in order to get coherent summation. That would be approximately 8 1/2 inches @ 400 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 What you want to do is to be within 1/4 wavelength (90 degrees) in order to get coherent summation. That would be approximately 8 1/2 inches @ 400 Hz. Thanks for that useful info, Don. Would you also know the length of the La Scala bass horn, by any chance? I estimate about 22" from horn opening to the middle of the rear transverse section, about 10" from the middle of the side horn sections to the middle of the cabinet, then about another 10-12" from just in front of the chevrons to the voice coil of the woofer.That adds up to 42-44", for purposes of time-aligning the woofer with the K510/K-69 tweeter. Does that sound about right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Bump. Does anyone know the actual length of the La Scala bass horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Does anyone know the actual length of the La Scala bass horn? 2.8 feet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 A difference of an inch or two is going to have relatively low impact on the wavelengths in question...but if it matters so much in your situation, then why don't you position it by ear? I personally would be more worried about diffraction off the top or front of the cabinet (depending on where you put the horn mouth). Just trying to help, but it sounds like your mind is made up....you could always pull a driver out and measure to the front board through the throat.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msutton Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 "Thanks again for the help but ,really, with all the builders and Khornophiles 'round here, I assumed some one would know the actual distance between the woofer and front of the Khorn" Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not but: It can depend on the year model so you might have to open the hatch and take a look. Earlier khorns (im not sure what year this changed) had a seperate board that the k33 woofer mounted to and that attached to the motorboard. This was done away with at some point and the woofer attached directly to the motorboard. If your woofer is attached to only the motorboard, as the more current khorns do, then the distance to the front most part of the woofer is 4 1/16". .....1/2" for the motorboard, 2 15/16" for the >< shaped diverters attached to the motorboard and 3/4" for the khorn face. If it is a older khorn that has he seperate board in between the woofer and motorboard just add that distance obviously to the 4 1/16" - hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyeanderson Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 "Thanks again for the help but ,really, with all the builders and Khornophiles 'round here, I assumed some one would know the actual distance between the woofer and front of the Khorn" Not sure if this is what you are looking for or not but: It can depend on the year model so you might have to open the hatch and take a look. Earlier khorns (im not sure what year this changed) had a seperate board that the k33 woofer mounted to and that attached to the motorboard. This was done away with at some point and the woofer attached directly to the motorboard. If your woofer is attached to only the motorboard, as the more current khorns do, then the distance to the front most part of the woofer is 4 1/16". .....1/2" for the motorboard, 2 15/16" for the >< shaped diverters attached to the motorboard and 3/4" for the khorn face. If it is a older khorn that has he seperate board in between the woofer and motorboard just add that distance obviously to the 4 1/16" - hope this helps. I saw this last night while reading about MWM bass bins. I think it may be what you are looking for, http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/117141/1181505.aspx THe 8th post is a graphical model of the Klipschorn that Edgar posted, it looks like 146 cm long or 57.5 inches. I think that this may be a measured off of a Speakerlab Khorn but for your purposes it is probably close to the Klipschorn. I hope this helps, Lots of good information already posted you just need to take some time to search and read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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