deafbykhorns Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 Then I might as well do the entire AP12-AK3 if I see a ES5800 in the future! Lift the 2way strap and feed the universal until I decide to do the the ES5800, correct? That's a great little feature to make these crossovers interchangeable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 EXACTLY! See, I'm not quite as dumb as I look! [8-|] Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deafbykhorns Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Dang it Al, I need to stay away from this site.... First order of business Who needs a Universal network Does Al offer the AP12-AK3 in kit form? Need to order the ES5800 without the orange extension cord (sorry Al, I'm an electrical contractor and can't get past this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 "Who needs a Universal network" The AP12-xxx + AP15-6000 costs almost the same and is better, but I have built 235 sets of Universal networks to date plus all the kits. How can I stop offering them? "Does Al offer the AP12-AK3 in kit form?" No.. Only the Universal and the Forte. "Need to order the ES5800 without the orange extension cord (sorry Al, I'm an electrical contractor and can't get past this" Now you are giving away my secret stuff! I get them from Wall-Mart and cut the connectors off! Al k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deafbykhorns Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 PM Sent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 I have stock 1990 Khorns with AK-2 networks. If I read this thread correctly I could replace my AK-2s with AP12-350s and ES5800s for a good initial upgrade then later get Eliptracs with adapters for 3 way use with the stock midrange driver and even later go 2-way with the B&C coaxial or HF200 drivers. My question is would these setups be passively bi-ampable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Mark, The answer to most of your questions is yes. You could also use the AP12-AK3 if you opened the woofer hatch and changed the 140 Uf cap it uses to 100 Uf, like the AK-3. The upgrade path to mentioned is fine except for the "passively bi-ampable" thing. The answer to that is probably no. Anytime you bi-amp the crosser MUST be an active one located up-stream of separate low and high amps. All passive networks between the low amp and woofer driver must be removed. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Al, I'm pretty slow when it comes to understanding how crossovers work and how to read schematics and graphs and it's taken me a couple of reads to feel that I think I understand what it is I need to do if and when I decide to upgrade again. The way I understand it is, since I have the AK2, if I get the AP12-AK3, I still use what's already inside the woofer hatch and add the AP12-AK3 to it? I have to change the two 70 Uf caps to 50 Uf caps first though? What type and brand do you recommend? I also use the 5800 or I can use the Universal for now using the bi-amp input and follow the directions mentioned earlier? Am I close or is my A D D really showing itself tonight? [*-)] Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Bernie, You have it exactly right. two 70 Uf caps can be replace with 50 uF caps of any brand or type you like. The frequency is so low here (400 Hz max) that any type is ok. I use mylar in the AP12-350 which is the same exact filter. I use 47uF + 47uF Bennic mylar (polyester) for 94 uF, which is close enough. Don't wast money or fancy brands like AuriCaps here. That would be a huge wast of money. However: I don't suggest the AP12-AK3 option for the AK-2 network because the object is to not have to open the woofer hatch at all. If you have to open it to change the caps from 70+70 to 47+47 you might as well just bypass the entire thing and go for the AP12-350. That has the AK-3 woofer filter built right on it plus a slightly better inductor too. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Al, I'm getting it now. It's all starting to make some sense finally. Thanks for being so helpful and so patient. One last question though. Besides the cost difference, what are the big differences between the ES400 with the ES5800 and the AP12-350 with the ES5800 since they're both designed for the Khorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Both the AP12 and ES series are designed for the K33 woofer. The difference is the crossover frequency and the steepness of the skirts. The 350-400 Hz networks are for the Khorn. The 500 Hz networks are for the Belle or Lacala. The Cornwall is best crossed at 600 Hz. The AP12 sereis is 12 dB / active. The ES networks are about 120 dB / octave down to about 25 dB. Extreme-slope networks give you a better stereo image and lower distortion. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I sent you an email Al. Bernie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deafbykhorns Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would open the woofer compartment and change the caps.Correct me if I'm wrong Al but you need to open the woofer compartment either way to isolate the woofer with a regular AP12, Universal or ES400.You can also change a couple parts in the AK2 and make it an AK3. Personally I would just get the AP12/ES5800 combo and be done. Or the ES400 if you listen to music really loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 The only difference between the AK-2 and AK-3 inside the woofer hatch is the two caps. The AK-2 has 140 Uf and the AK-3 has 100 Uf. 94 uF is good enough. Replace the two caps with two 47 uF mylar caps. Solen Bennic is what I use in the AP12-350, which is the same thing. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I would open the woofer compartment and change the caps.Correct me if I'm wrong Al but you need to open the woofer compartment either way to isolate the woofer with a regular AP12, Universal or ES400.You can also change a couple parts in the AK2 and make it an AK3. I didn't want to alter the original crossovers so I replaced the entire hatch and installed new speaker terminals for the woofer. Personally I would just get the AP12/ES5800 combo and be done. That's exactly what I did. I spoke with Al today and placed an order for the AP12-350 and ES5800 combo to replace the Universals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff. Posted April 30, 2021 Share Posted April 30, 2021 @geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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