Rudy81 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 As close as the above results are, I wondered why I could hear better high end response on the Jabo horns. My horns do not point directly at the sweet spot, so I figured the difference could be more pronounced in the polar response area. Here is a plot with the microphone apporximately 45 degrees off from horn center. This is where the better made Jabo's really show a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share Posted September 22, 2011 Finally, the Jabo horn on axis vs. approximately 45 degrees off. I was able to work on basic voicing with the new horn and will keep setting things up tomorrow. If I decide to keep the Jabo horns, then it will be off to paint at some point. BTW, bang for the buck, these Jabo's are hard to beat when compared to the Orphean or any of the other offerings for spherical horns that are somewhat professionally made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I thought exponential was supposed to beam more than tractrix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 I thought exponential was supposed to beam more than tractrix? I know. That was one of my hesitations when getting the Jabos. Remember that the Tractrix is a DIY project and who knows what the true shape of the horn is....although I worked hard at reproducing the tractrix curve I had cut. Also, the Jabo horn is about twice the diameter of the DIY and I don't know enough about horn technology to know if that has any effect. I now the better response was both heard and tested. That seemed to be the biggest difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Hey Rudy Thanks for posting your tests and impressions......very interesting. mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 26, 2011 Author Share Posted September 26, 2011 Based on my listening impressions and the various measurements, these Jabo horns are better enough than my DIY effort to keep. Today was paint day. Lightly sanded the horns and went with Black Satin Lacquer for the horn and my DIY stands. I forgot what a nice finish lacquer gives. At some point I will have to disassemble my DBB bass bins, sand them, and shoot them with this Black Satin Lacquer. Oh well, another project for another day. Pictures to follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Completed DBB with Jabo Horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 HT front speaker array. The tapped horn subs are now standing upright behind the screen for a cleaner look. Crappy picture since I can't use a flash due to the screen retro-reflectivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Jabo closeup after lacquer paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 where can I buy a pair of Jabo? it shouldn't be too heavy... is it? tnx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 They show up on eBay weekly. Run a search for Jabo Horns and they will show up. There is an auction currently. They are shipped from Germany. No, they are not heavy at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arash Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 They show up on eBay weekly. Run a search for Jabo Horns and they will show up. There is an auction currently. They are shipped from Germany. tnx dude... how much is a fair price for a pair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 They seem to run around $340-$350 plus shipping from Germany. Frankly, I think they are a great deal. Werner is the gentleman who makes them and eventhough I didn't buy directly from him, he was very helpful in my transaction with a US seller. I paid $375 delivered for mine and have no regrets. Werner indicated the horns are exponential and could be used down to 400Hz, which is well below where I have them crossed due to my driver. However, my DBBs can go up to well past 400Hz no problem. So, I was not concerned with a very low Fc. I just finished running Audyssey Pro and the Audyssey calibrated mic verified the independant sweeps I had taken. The horns performed very well. Orphean horns, tractrix, will cost you well over $1000 shipped. Most other contenders I have found will cost at least that much or more once you get them shipped. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Rudy, have you played around with the $35 QSC horn?http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=245-625 I know it's not a circular horn, but I would be very curious to hear your impressions on it. It's a 1" throat, so you'd need different drivers. The BMS-4550 is good to about 900Hz with this horn after a little EQ and sounds really good in my opinion. The polars are also extremely well behaved above 2kHz (below that, the horn is just too small). My system is gonna be torn apart here in a bit, so I wouldn't mind loaning you some stuff to play with if you're interested. I wish it would dig a bit lower, so I'm working on my own homebrew at the moment. Attached is a photo of the one intended to match the application of the QSC horn, but I think I might try building one large enough to support a 500Hz xover since the BMS should be good for going at least that low. Also, have you done any experimentation with MTM alignments, or looked at the polar response of your dual woofers? Now that I can measure it, I've noticed that achieving perfect summation at the xover frequeny may not necessarily be the ideal approach. I've got a ton of measurements uploaded to Picasa, but didn't want to spam your thread if you didn't want to go off on that tangent. I ended up buying ARTA (for like $100 or something) so that I could do polar response measurements. Anyways, here's a link if you want to check some of them out:https://picasaweb.google.com/mebentz2/Audio Anyways, that's really cool to see the measurements correlate with your perception. Have you talked to Werner to find out more specifics as to why he calls it exponential? The exact exponential is part of the hyperbolic family, so I'm wondering if maybe he's doing something slightly different? John Post's thesis on Tractrix Horns compares against exponential horns and shows the difference in polar response (measured and predicted), so I'm curious how the two data sets are related:http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/3/814933/post_thesis_ut94.pdf If you haven't read it, it's a good read, although it's a bit on the technical side. Anyways, the shot of your horn doesn't look very exponential, so I'm wondering if maybe something got lost in translation when describing the flare type. Anyways, been enjoying this thread quite a bit. I'd love to swing by sometime and hear what you're hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Mike, Please feel free to take this thread in a more technical direction. I could use the information. No, I have not attempted to take any polar readings on the dual woofer bin, but since the speakers are use exclusively in a relatively small room, I am not sure the polar information is going to make much difference. I realize round horns have a poorer polar dispersion than many of the other alternatives, but my experience with various horns has led me to appreciate the larger soundstage provided by the round horns....both DIY and professionally manufactured. Thus far, I have tried the stock Klipsch horns on all the Heritage models, ALK's Trachorns, Greg's original 2" wooden horns with BMS drivers, P. Audio 2" horns and now the round horns. Werner's english is way better than my German, but there is still a little language barrier and he is rather brief in his responses. I don't know exactly why he says his horns are exponential, but that is what he told me. I am going to check the Jabo's against my tractrix patterns (the ones I used for the DIY horns). Just looking at the Jabo's, they certainly 'look' very similar to my DIY effort, but the exact curve is difficult to discern. I know it is not a LeCleach curve after showing the pictures to the Azurahorn builder. Please expand your comments on the crossover summation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blvdre Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 That QSC horn was one of Zilch's (RIP) favorite values, used in some of his Econowave designs. I have a pair on the shelf waiting to be used. Z's favorite design was the QSC mated to a BMS 4552 (or 4550?) and the Altec 414-8B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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