Pete H Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Congrats Greg! It's been a while since I've been on your site and all I can say is those speakers look fantastic! I can't wait until I get a chance to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 So what's this sub you're working on?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 So what's this sub you're working on?????? The first sub that I completed was a cabinet the same size and shape as the Vittora bass cabinet. In other words, pretty big and bulky. I used a Faital 18" driver. The cabinet is ported. I started working on a much smaller cabinet (also ported) using a rather unusual Ciare 18" driver that only needed half the volume of the Faital and I think it actually sounds better. I've only used both of these subs from 45Hz and down, so it's hard to tell if one really sounds nicer than the other. I haven't had them in the same room together yet. I had intended to try both of them side by side when I set everything up at RMAF to get a better idea of how they compared to one another, but when I plugged in the larger cabinet, the Faital had a rubbing voice coil. Lucky I brought the second sub with me. I think maybe the crate was dropped and bent the driver. I looked at the crate and couldn't see any damage anywhere, so I'm really not sure what happened to it. I'll investigate more when I get it home. Next step on the "small sub" (I haven't named it yet) is to design an aesthetically pleasing cabinet and of course veneer and finish it nicely. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm surprised you went ported. I would have thought you'd go horn loaded or sealed for SQ. In any case, I'm certain they'll be real lookers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Thanks again everyone. I just remembered one room that had fully horn-loaded speakers. Jeff Catalano's room had Cessaro speakers. Expensive and large horn speakers from Germany. Backloaded horn with a 12" woofer I think. Jeff remembered and put the same recording on that I listened to at CAF when I went to his room and listened to a completely different system that he brought there. I was underwhelmed by the bass from such a large speaker, and was only somewhat happy with the sound quality overall. For $60K and for the size, I was expecting a lot more. I heard good things from other people though, and I wish I had made it back to the room later in the weekend to see if they got it dialed in any better. There were a few very large speakers there at the show, which was encouraging to me, since I would like to design and build a larger fully horn-loaded speaker someday. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 I'm surprised you went ported. I would have thought you'd go horn loaded or sealed for SQ. In any case, I'm certain they'll be real lookers. Yeah, I know what you mean. Horn loaded would have ended up being much too large I think. I regularly work with two different engineers, and I initially approached both with the idea of using a sealed sub, but they ended up talking me out of that, and convinced me that I could get the quickness and quality from a properly designed ported cabinet. One of the engineers was emphatic that there is no difference in transient response between properly designed sealed or ported enclosures. A sub that is playing from 45Hz and down is an odd sounding beast when it's playing all alone. It's hard for me to say that either one of the two I've built actually sounds nice. But properly tuned and blended in with the Vittora speakers, they add weight and depth that is very nice. I've found that "properly tuned" means just to the point where it blends in and you really don't hear the sub separately from the Vittoras, and that is actually a lot less output than you would think. Or at least it seems like not much output to me. I spent a half hour or so setting up and tuning the sub into the system at RMAF, and with the system at about 95db at the listening position, I went over and put my hand on the sub driver and it was hardly moving at all. You could hear it and sense it all over the room, and turning it on and off there was an obvious difference. I still need a lot more seat time with them to get used to how they sound. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I can't argue with an engineer. I also can't argue with my ears. To me, the diferent configurations (sealed, horn, ported) all sound a little different even with a properly implemented design. You'd do well to get some MDF, slap a couple sealed boxes together and play around a bit. You don't need to invest a lot of time or money. Your definition of "properly tuned" is right on. It should sound as if there's no sub playing at all. In your minds eye (ear) the bass should be coming from your mains. The sub should never call attention to itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 You don't need to invest a lot of time or money. Good, because I don't have much of either at the moment! lol Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 REALLY ??? .....Did I just hear Greg say a bigger Horn Speaker System ???...............I am still saving up for the VITTORA Version 2.....sheese.....I am BAD!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 REALLY ??? .....Did I just hear Greg say a bigger Horn Speaker System ???...............I am still saving up for the VITTORA Version 2.....sheese.....I am BAD!!!! First I'm going to do a smaller one. More of a tower shape, but still all horn-loaded. I was just thinking about how Klipsch would have done at RMAF, and I think they would have fared very well there. But I can see where it might not be worth the cost and effort for them. CES is a much better show for Klipsch to do. RMAF is the kind of place that a Klipsch dealer would show a system that includes Klipsch speakers. I think that a room with Palladiums, a nice tube amp/preamp, and a high end TT would have been very well received. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwingylee Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Greg: The Vittoras sounded great. My friend liked them too. I don't know if you agreed, but I thought they sounded better at the Capitol Fest - imagine that. Nice job and I wish Klipsch was there. The audio landscape is changing and these shows are what connects manufacturers to everyday folk. Not everyone can make CES. Kwing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 As Greg said, a few paragraphs back, the reviewer noticed it, Greg know how to do hornloudspeakers. Yes, that is all I I have been saying. I am so glad that someone in the world has finally ACKLOWLEDGED it. Volti Audio, is a very cognescient company ! They certainly have my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Greg: The Vittoras sounded great. My friend liked them too. I don't know if you agreed, but I thought they sounded better at the Capitol Fest - imagine that. Kwing I was sharing the room at RMAF with four other exhibitors, and the equipment that was put together at the show had never been integrated before. We had quite a few problems. I'm still not completely sure, but it's possible that all day or part of the day on Friday our system was playing in Mono! Apparently the "Y" connector coming out of the outputs of the linestage preamp was shorting back through the other outputs of the preamp and causing the two channels to be summed. I think. As I said, I'm not entirely sure about that. This doesn't happen with my own preamp because I guess there's some kind of buffer circuit between the two channels to prevent that. But the linestage we were using at the show was a prototype and did not have that buffer circuit. Who knew? And that was the day I sold those speakers! Go figure. At one point, someone asked us to put an LP on the TT. I encourage people to bring their own music, and I'll put just about anything on the system for someone to hear. This guy had an LP that he produced himself, and when we started it up, within a few seconds he said that the TT speed was off. It didn't sound it to me, but he was sure that the speed was off. So Mr. Morch, the tonearm manufacturer started looking over the whole TT setup to try and figure out what was wrong, if anything. Sure enough, the TT actually runs off a battery pack that plugs into the wall, and the battery was low. The linestage preamp we were using had some issues too. On Saturday, it overheated at least three times and we had to shut the system down, at which point everyone who was in the room listening left. Word in the hallway was that we were having problems with the system. Not good. The Golden Rule at an audio show, so I'm told, is that your system must be set up and working properly before the start of the show, and it needs to work properly for the whole show. On Sunday I had a talk with the builder of the linestage and convinced him that it would be better to switch over to my linestage and not have the system breaking down all day. So Sunday we actually had a consistent sound all day. The different sources caused me a lot of problems with the subwoofer balance, and I'm not sure it was ever right during Friday and Saturday. I was constantly trying to re-balance it on the fly. Most of the time I just shut it off. Sunday was different. With my linestage in the loop, I was able to set the sub and leave it. The walls of the room at CAF were cement block, while the walls at RMAF had drywall on them, so the speaker/room dynamic was different at RMAF. But when I was able to tune the system Sunday morning I was getting a killer sound. As good as I've ever heard from the Vittoras. Fantastic center image, wide soundstage, beautiful tonal characteristics all the way through, dynamics, really everything was about as good as I've ever heard in any system. But Kwing, I can understand why you would say the system sounded better at CAF. It would just be a matter of catching the system at RMAF at the wrong time, which unfortunately was too much of the time. I will not do that again. Sharing a room was a learning experience for me, and while I respect and admire the other vendors that were there with me, I just have to do my own thing from now on. I am glad that I brought an entire system with me and not just speakers. That would have been a disaster. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwingylee Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Greg: Thanks for the clarification. I wish I could have been in your room on Sunday. On Saturday, the speakers definitely did not image the way they did in CAF. Also, until you put the Shelby Lynn CD back in, I thought the tweeters were blown as I almost heard no highs.... Now I know why LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I just have to comment about Greg's experience with a system not operating correctly, and then people leaving his room at the RMAF with people 'commenting in the hall'. There seems to be so much 'mythology and mystery' surrounding what people think goes into a great sounding system. I find 'all of that' just slightly, well, disturbing. I certainly am able to see all of the 'mythology' and its accomanying mayhem from all that I have read the last 2 years I have been in highend audio. I truly find all this, well...'crap' and to be very sad. The myth is so much a product of the advertising that we all are so easily overcome by in this wonderful hobby. Thousands and Thousands spent, too many times not met with even realistic expectations. With that said, I trust that anyone that has seen my posts over the last year would take to heart what I have found. That is, that Greg, Volti Audio, totally deliver on the best that Fully Loaded Horn Loudspeakers promise. Greg builds on the promise that PWK left us with, that this format for bringing us music as realistically reproduced inour homes is a great possiblity. Greg does this faithfully, and at a great promise. Yes, with integrity also. I can't possibly find anyone that does this better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crd97086 Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I sincerely apologize, the forum software deleted my paragraphs above. Thanks, Dale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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