carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 First off thanks to Jeff ( carbon summit) for a great deal, I've wanted to get a UMC-1 for awhile so it was great to see a used one come up from a forum member. Unit arrived in original packaging, and in great condition. First off the UMC is a nice upgrade from the Sherwood P-965, as the 965 needed an external hdmi switch, which meant I couldn't use audio over HDMI, The UMC is very easy to setup and sounds great, I used the EmoQ and am pretty happy with the results. The sound quality is also an improvement, as it definitely has fuller bass. It does only have a single sub output, but with the newly built TH-spud I think 1 is gonna be all I want or need. I know some people don't care for they remote, I've read "big and clunky" I kinda like the weight of it, I just wish it had a backlight. I will add the this shortly, don't want to say too much as I have only watched a couple movies so far, and no music. Hi Brac, I'm glad the UMC-1 made it to you safely. I worked at UPS in college and saw enough to know I should worry when I ship something electronic! I'm sure FedEx isn't much different. Like I told you in PM or an email I already miss the UMC-1 for music. It sounds much better than my Onkyo for music. I think I like the Onkyo better for movies but if music is your thing, or if manual setting up is your thing the UMC-1 is hard to bet. I like the sound of Audyssey better than Emo-Q, but if you know what you're doing (I don't!!!) I think that Emo-Q for a starting point and then the flexibility that the UMC-1 gives you in adjustments will probably be more of a tool to sculpt your systems sound than Audyssey would ever be. I struggle with manual set ups because I second guess myself a lot. I prefer an auto set up that gets me close and then I can relax. As a kid I never put the decals on my model cars and planes because I thought if I waited until I was older I'd be able to do a better job... Not much has changed as an adult... counseling would probably help but it would cut into my A/V budget so I just live with my self doubts! My only complaint about the remote was you had to point it right at the UMC-1 for good response. I only used the remote for set up stuff and my Harmony One for day to day operations. Like I said before feel free to contact me with any questions, and there are plenty of UMC-1 owners here as well. You got a great pre/pro for a great price. Enjoy it and don't be afraid to mess with the settings because that is what that unit is all about. (advice I can give but wasn't able to follow!) Thanks,Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hey Brac, any further reviews would be helpful as I'm still on the fence regarding the UMC-1. I've read all over it is great for 2ch but don't see much in regards to how it sounds for HT. I'm like Jeff, I'm not much of a tweaker. I let the Yamaha YPAO Calibration do it's thing and then I changed a few things slightly (Small to Large, Crossover etc) but I had no clue when it came to adjusting EQ frequencies. I'm curious what you think about it for HT since I use my system primarily for HT but enjoy 2ch on occassion. Thanks, Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Youth....have you not bought the 3600 yet???? [] The UMC is great but you have reservations and after all that's been posted in the last year or so about it I can see why.I'm glad I bought mine(one of the very first to get it) before it was purchased by a wider variety of buyers.It does have a few quirks, they don't effect me at all, and I can't give up the quality audio.I wish I could give you good advise but you'll just have to take a chance at some point.The worst that could happen is you lose $100 or so.I just lost $250 on a 4 month old Yamaha I bought new at $500 off and am soooo happy to be shed of it. Vanilla or Chocolate is always easy but lack the wonderful flavor of other choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 youth, I thought about getting a umc way back when they first came out, but I just cant go back to anything without Audyssey. I've never had Audyssey before. My previous Yamaha had YPAO, the Onkyo TX-SR703 didn't have any room correction. My receiver before the UMC-1 was a Yamaha 663 and I have an old 1400 in my second setup so I'm familar with YPAO. The 663 was the one I used YPAO the most with and since it was a cheaper receiver in Yamaha's family tree maybe it got a more scaled down verson of YPAO than the 1800 you had came with, I'm not sure. I bought the 663 as my first step into HT and didn't want to invest a lot until I figured out what direction I was going. It was the cheapest Yamaha that has pre amp outs to add an amp later. Then after adding the amp I wanted to add a true pre/pro and the UMC-1 was on my short list because I loved my XPA-5 amp. I bought my Onkyo PR-SC886P for kind of the same reason I bought the 663. I'm not sure what direction I'm going next and for the money I think I got one heck of a pre/pro that is very stable and bug free. Comparing YPAO that the 663 had to Audyssey MultEQ XT that the 886 had I think that Audyssey does a better job, but again that may not be an apples to apples comparision as far as the level of YPAO vs the level of Audyssey involved. I'm sure its true that any sound correction program is just a starting point but Audyssey started me a a point I'm very happy with. I noticed that on a few different forums there were a bunch of guys still very happy with the 886, where as some guys with 885s were wishing they had a newer pre/pro to get some of the new bells and whistles so I decided that the 886 was the oldest I'd go back until I decide to move forward. At this point I'm happy with what I have and don't see a need for a 5507, 5508 or 5509, etc. As far as why Onkyo? Every brand has its followers and after being on a few different forums for a few years it seems that a lot of the HT guys really loved their Onkyo pre/pros so I thought I'd give Onkyo a try. You never know until its in your house if its right for you, and so far this is! I need to get a new Dish Network receiver I know, but I just don't watch much TV and I don't want to be commited to them since I'm out of contract so I plug along with my old 625 DVR that is only SD. The 886 does a much better job than the UMC-1 did with upscaling the signal when I'm watching dish so the HQV Reon-VX must be a better chip than the Genesis/ST® Torino used in the UMC-1. At least to my eyes, YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I was in the same position as you several weeks ago, the 40% off coupon was the deal maker for me. Also, the UMC will be manufactured for another year, so I expect to see a few more firmware updates before the product is discontinued. The no return policy is a bummer, but there are several people willing to buy the UMC on ebay for a discount. IF your not happy with the UMC, sell it and take a $50 loss, keep the 40% off coupon and use it or sell it when the XMC comes out. If you sell the UMC and sell the 40% off coupon, you might even make money. Also, Big Dan (Emotiva Pres) promissed to fix all outstanding issues with the UMC for what thats worth. My end goal is to purchase a XMC-1 after its been tested by others, Im in no hurry. I agree with dad311 in principle thinking you wouldn't take a big hit if you don't like it but I don't think the sell it for a $50 loss and keep the card or selling the card and the UMC-1 and making money is realistic. I'd have to guess you will never sell it for $450 + shipping without the card when someone could buy it right from Emo for $499 with free shipping and a card. You need to be cheap enough that someone would give up the card and pay shipping. My guess is you probably can't sell the UMC-1 for $450 with the card and only lose $50 when its all said and done. If you buy a new UMC-1 for $499 and don't like it you won't take a big loss ( I guess what is a big loss? Big is relative term) compaired to if you bought a new Onkyo 5509 when its released in the states. Looking at it in terms of total dollars lost, not on a percentage. Percentage wise you'd lose more but thats because the UMC-1 was so cheap to start with. If you bought a new 5509 and tried to turn it in a few months you'd probably lose what the UMC-1 cost! If you do $450 with free shipping you'll be eating the shipping cost +ebay fees+paypal fees which comes off the amount they paid you. So in the end if shipping is around $35, paypal fees are around 4% I think so well say $18 on a $450 payment. Thats if you sell it here, do it on eBay and they'll want their piece of the pie too. I used the eBay fee calculator guessing it sold for $450 and they guessed their cut at over $40! So to end up losing $50, ending with $450 in your pocket to cover all the fees you'd have to sell your used UMC-1 for around $545 on eBay. Which actually is too low a guess since I figured the Paypal fees on $450 but you get the point. I probably could have sold my UMC-1 for more than I sold it to Brac, but in the end it went to a fellow forum member, he was great to work with and I hope he enjoys it for a long time. You can work really hard to make an extra few dollars selling stuff over just finding a buyer and moving on to enjoying more important things. If I listened to my Cornwalls more I wouldn't have sold the UMC-1. For music it is awesome. But when the Corns are used next to never it seemed a waste to put a current piece of hardware there to sit instead of passing it on to someone that could put it to use. I don't feel guilty never turning on my old Yamaha 1400, its worth nothing and I don't feel its being wasted. When I first got my Cornwalls I listened to them a lot and considered setting up an all Heritage HT but because of the size I decided against it, and they took the center stage again when I put new caps in the crossovers but after the new toy thing wore off they got moved again to the second system. I'm probably 90% + HT and less than 10% music so for me the Onkyo was a better choice. If music was my first choice and HT was a once in a while use of the system then I'd have kept the UMC-1. Sorry for the long response, slow day at work... [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hey Brac, any further reviews would be helpful as I'm still on the fence regarding the UMC-1. I've read all over it is great for 2ch but don't see much in regards to how it sounds for HT. I'm like Jeff, I'm not much of a tweaker. I let the Yamaha YPAO Calibration do it's thing and then I changed a few things slightly (Small to Large, Crossover etc) but I had no clue when it came to adjusting EQ frequencies. I'm curious what you think about it for HT since I use my system primarily for HT but enjoy 2ch on occassion. Thanks, Michael We do agree, when it comes to messing with the EQ frequencies I have no clue where to start, and I really don't think anyone can tune it "right" by ear. I know the arguement is right is what you like it to sound like but I disagree. Right is how the director intended it to sound (HT focus coming through) and I think getting a pro to come into your house with a computer is probably the only way that will happen! Well I'm not willing to pay for that so I'm going to have to trust whichever auto correct system my pre/pro has to get me close to what it should sound like. I too check and see if I need change the things you mention like small to large, check the distance measurements and use my trusty Radio Shack spl meter to check the levels but I have to trust the EQ settings because I have no idea whats going on there. One thing that hasn't come up yet that always concerned me was the way the UMC-1 handled the bass from each of the speakers. It never made sense to me. I do think the UMC-1 has better menus, a better on screen display, a lot of other things actually, it was really a cool piece of equipment to play with but in the in end I was not a tweeker and felt I was missing something. I put the 886 in its place and ran Audyssey with the max mic positions and put in a few of my favorite demo movie scenes and was instantly impressed! I think the surround sound effects are much better with Audyssey than the EmoQ results but in all fairness with a little work maybe the UMC-1 would have been better for HT then I give it credit for. I just didn't know what I was doing and probably left things alone that needed to be fixed. I do have sellers remorse, wishing I had waited to sell the UMC-1 after the next promised firmware update and see what improvements are made with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm probably 90% + HT and less than 10% music so for me the Onkyo was a better choice. Onkyo makes fantastic HT receivers. I'm sure you did make the right choice for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Who is this Carbon Summit guy that writes these long winded posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xki Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 One thing that hasn't come up yet that always concerned me was the way the UMC-1 handled the bass from each of the speakers. It never made sense to me. I agree with C/S on this. It's very difficult to get things 'just right'. Maybe not difficult but it takes a lot of time. You have to keep in mind what's going on at all times when you make even a slight change to the redirected frequency bands. A few thoughts: EmoQ did great except it boosted the subs a bit too much. That's a common complaint with EmoQ. I have the BluRay and the cable box hooked up with HDMI for almost everything. I do have an optical hooked up to the BluRay and set to an additional input on the UMC-1 for times when the HDMI just can't lock on and I lose a few seconds of each track on some CDs or Pandora. (Damn HDMI) Emo will be offering a 3D upgrade for the UMC-1 priced at $199. This from the top dog at Emo, Big Dan: "For our customers who want to add 3D capability to their older UMC-1's, it will be made available as a factory installed update for $199.00. Customers will be able to order this update as of the first of the year. We are preparing a major SW update for the UMC-1! This update will address all known and reported bugs that we have been able to document to date. We have been working very diligently for several months to verify and confirm all issues discovered internally and reported to us. Where we have verified a problem, we have worked to address it and correct it" I have not upgraded the firmware to the latest version. I am waiting for the next version. The 7.1 representation is wonderful. With my old AVR, surround was ho-hum. The UMC-1 brought out what I believe was the director's intent. The menus are great and I can zip through them in no time to do tweaks. There are options for Center Width and Dimension. These 2 settings used with PLIIx mode will wrap you in sound when listening to music. I went with the UMC-1 to get back into separates on the cheap and give me the EQ adjustability I wanted. I'm very pleased. I was using the old AVR amp section for about 3 months and then purchased the UPA-7 to power it all. Now I'm VERY pleased. I don't know if upgradeitis will strike with the UMC-1. It sort of depends on the industry path. The UPA-7 amp will probably be with me until I have no ability to even lift that great big remote. The UMC-1 brought to light a blown driver in 1 of my centers and pointed out that 38 year old crossover capacitors should have been retired a few years ago. And the journey continues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 Youth....have you not bought the 3600 yet???? Sorry Fish....I must have missed your post due to that long winded guy. [] The UMC is great but you have reservations and after all that's been posted in the last year or so about it I can see why. Yes....there are just sooooo many varying opinions regarding the UMC-1. Some say it's awesome for HT, some say it doesn't compare to Onkyo. Some say they have absolutely no problems, while others were a nightmare. Frankly, part of me wants to be optimistic and at least give it a try to see if it is worth the hype. You are correct in that I would lose probably $150 on the deal if I had to sell it but maybe that's what I need to ease my curiosity. I could at least say I had experienced the UMC-1. It does have a few quirks, they don't effect me at all, and I can't give up the quality audio. Not sure how much it would affect me either since my setup is super simple with only the PS3 and a wii connected. No cable box lock up issues to worry about. I could give you good advise but you'll just have to take a chance at some point. That is just not good advice at all. LOL Just kidding. I realize it's a bit of a gamble. I have two problems: 1) I'm not a gambler at all, 2) I can't make a decision when it comes to things like this. I tend to overanalyze and probably over-research things instead of doing diligent research and just making a decision. Funny thing is the money isn't really the issue. I'm not wealthy at all but if I lose $150, it's not that big of a deal (thanks to Dave Ramsey). Vanilla or Chocolate is always easy but lack the wonderful flavor of other choices. I'm just afraid I'll end up with "Rocky Road". [][][] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 Here is my other thought....I can buy an AVR anytime. Being able to enter the world of a Pre/Pro for $499 with HDMI support and HD Audio support doesn't come around too often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I do have sellers remorse, wishing I had waited to sell the UMC-1 after the next promised firmware update and see what improvements are made with it. Hi Xki! Sounds like things are going well with your UMC-1. Glad to hear it. One thing I want to stress is that the UMC-1 wasn't a terrible piece of equipment, it offered a lot regardless of cost and ran with pre/pros that cost a lot more. It was a huge bargain for the money. It just wasn't a good fit for me since I'm not a tweeker. On one of the pod casts Emotive put out Big Dan said of the UMC-1 "It just works". Thats how I feel about my Onkyo. It really does just work, and it works well, without much input from me. Onkyo supplied the painting that I hung on the wall, Emotiva supplied the paint and brush and I had no idea what to do with it. Best explanation I can give you. If you think you're a artist buy the UMC-1 and never look back because I never had that level of control before, but if you just want to sit down and enjoy the painting then the UMC-1 might not be for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Youth....have you not bought the 3600 yet???? Sorry Fish....I must have missed your post due to that long winded guy. The UMC is great but you have reservations and after all that's been posted in the last year or so about it I can see why. Yes....there are just sooooo many varying opinions regarding the UMC-1. Some say it's awesome for HT, some say it doesn't compare to Onkyo. Some say they have absolutely no problems, while others were a nightmare. Frankly, part of me wants to be optimistic and at least give it a try to see if it is worth the hype. You are correct in that I would lose probably $150 on the deal if I had to sell it but maybe that's what I need to ease my curiosity. I could at least say I had experienced the UMC-1. It does have a few quirks, they don't effect me at all, and I can't give up the quality audio. Not sure how much it would affect me either since my setup is super simple with only the PS3 and a wii connected. No cable box lock up issues to worry about. I could give you good advise but you'll just have to take a chance at some point. That is just not good advice at all. LOL Just kidding. I realize it's a bit of a gamble. I have two problems: 1) I'm not a gambler at all, 2) I can't make a decision when it comes to things like this. I tend to overanalyze and probably over-research things instead of doing diligent research and just making a decision. Funny thing is the money isn't really the issue. I'm not wealthy at all but if I lose $150, it's not that big of a deal (thanks to Dave Ramsey). Vanilla or Chocolate is always easy but lack the wonderful flavor of other choices. I'm just afraid I'll end up with "Rocky Road". OK, long winded guy once again... If losing $150 isn't a big deal I'd wait until the next firmware and see what is said about it on the Emo forum. If it cures some of the woes people are having then jump on it. If I still had a UMC-1 I'd offer to let you borrow it if you paid the shipping to you and back. But then again that would be $70+ total shipping and your time so maybe that wouldn't be that great an offer either. If you lived across town I'd let you borrow it for free. For $499 plus the chance to upgrade to another pre/pro in the future with a 40% discount card is hard to beat. But you've probably spent some time over at the Emotiva Lounge researching this and noticed a lot of guys tried it and sent it back when there was a 30 day policy. A lot of guys tried it and sold it (myself included). A lot of guys just love it. If $150 is the most costly mistake you ever make you are way a head of me! Including the UMC-1, among many many many other mistakes. I'll let Brac share what he paid if he wants to but I will openly admit I lost a lot more than $150. But I got to try it in my home and decide for myself if it was for me. Thats the only way to know. I did notice on the Emo Lounge that the Onkyo guys seem to return the UMC-1 and keeping their Onkyo, probably what lead me to trying an Onkyo next. So my unscientific theory is that the UMC-1 might not be as strong as an Onkyo for HT. That is what I found myself to be true. So if you're a big HT guy and not a tweeker the UMC-1 might not be for you. Thats my theory, but if you don't mind losing a little money to know for yourself then there really is no harm in trying the UMC-1. I lost money on mine, more than you will since I bought mine at $699 but don't regret trying. Better to have loved and lost they say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 19, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 19, 2011 If losing $150 isn't a big deal I'd wait until the next firmware and see what is said about it on the Emo forum. I guess the one thing that I'm thinking is will the UMC-1 be for sale when they release the new FW and when exactly will that be? My understanding is Emo is pretty notorious for giving estimated time frames but rarely keep them. Case in point, I read in the Emo forum that the XMC-1 was guaranteed by Dan to be released in March of 2011. Somehow they didn't make that deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted October 20, 2011 Moderators Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hey Brac, where are the pics of your new unit? Would love to see the Blue in all it's glory. Any further reviews of it? I'm probably going to call Emo tomorrow to see if I can get a rough estimate on how long until the new firmware is released. I don't want to wait a month without a receiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 We watched a movie via Vudu tonight streamed through my BD player, to my 886, to my Sony TV. The picture and sound was awesome considering the source. I bought the movie on the cheapest SD level they rent and I was surprised how great it looked and sounded. If you're in to HT and don't want to fine tune your set up I think there are better options than the UMC-1, but if you're primarily a music listener and a tweeker then the UMC-1 is a great choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Somehow I lost track of this thread, so I've got a bit of reading to do, they some posting, but real quick, I couldn't be happier with the unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Hey Brac, Good to hear you're happy with the UMC-1! I noticed your HT set up in your signature, does the Academy keep up with your Klipschorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Getting the UMC-1 worked out great,this turned out to be much more of an upgrade than I expected for much less $ than I expected. This unit replaced a Sherwood Newcastle P-965, I am still using the A-965. I was able to sell the P-965 and the outboard hdmi switching unit for almost the same money I spent on the UMC-1. So this was the best $25 I have ever spent on audio gear! After spending some time with the UMC, there are many things I really like. My sub came alive like never before (TH-SPUD). My zone 2 (KLF-10's) always sounded a bit harsh, the UMC has gotten rid of any harshness. The EmoQ does a really nice job, any post tweeking is optional. Having HDMI switching is great, (yea, I know I'm behind the times). I'm quite happy with HT, and Music. I like the way the setup allows you to take unused inputs out of the active list. However I need to figure out how to take them out of the zone 2 list. I really need to get a ceiling in the theater, and maybe dust the equip rack. As for the Academy, it does a better job than the Heresy it replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbon summit Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 As for the Academy, it does a better job than the Heresy it replaced. I've owned a few pairs of Heresy and a few different Academy speakers but I've never A/B'd them to see which one out performed the other as a center channel. Acamemy with my Forte IIs and Heresy with my Cornwalls. I assumed (I know... never assume) the Heresy would be the better of the two. But I guess I've aways been impressed with the Academy so I'm not sure why I'm surprised the Academy was your choice. I'm thrilled you're happy with the UMC-1! As I use my Onkyo there are things I miss about the UMC-1, and things I like better about the 886. I doubt there is a perfect pre/pro so it sounds like we are now both happy so thats the best end of this story we could ask. Hopefully we both can fight off the upgrade bug for a a long time with our current pre/pros... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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