Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 I read around here that the Denon AVR-3802 was hissing with the Kliipsch Reference Series 3 speakers. Then I read that all Denons hiss. Is this true? Will my Denon AVR-4802 hiss?? If this is true about Denons hissing, I'll have to look for an alternative. ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 I have a Denon AVR3802. Yes it hisses, but I have to crank it up to full blast and put my ear right up against the speaker grill to hear it (without any music playing through it, mind you ). From what I understand all receivers/amps hiss at some level. ------------------ Steven Konopa Fredericksburg, VA Denon AVR3802 RF-3II (Front) RC-3II (Center) RC-3II (Rear) RS-3II (A surrounds) Infinity RS2000.5 (B surrounds - recycled) REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1) Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - recycled) 32 inch Sharp (TV) JVC XV-S65GD (DVD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 Well, take a look at this thread: http://216.37.9.58/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002052.html ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 I did take a look at that thread (although I did not read the entire thing). However, in my setup, I could not hear any hiss unless I put my ears right up against the speaker grill (and I have damn good hearing). Even when I cranked it up to full blast, I still had to put my ear against the grill to hear any real noticable hissing. If you weren't so far away (United Arab Emirates), I'd let you come over and listen yourself . ------------------ Steven Konopa Fredericksburg, VA Denon AVR3802 RF-3II (Front) RC-3II (Center) RC-3II (Rear) RS-3II (A surrounds) Infinity RS2000.5 (B surrounds - recycled) REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1) Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - recycled) 32 inch Sharp (TV) JVC XV-S65GD (DVD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 I'd love to come over, if I could. But, thanks anyway. So, are you saying that his Denon AVR-3802 could have a problem rather than the hiss being "normal"? ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 KAiN64, Did you check out the new marantz SR-9200?? It is a beauty. I know someone who went with it over the AVC-A1SE®. Well, he was about to upgrade to a AVC-A1SR but he did checked out the marantz and bought it. It is cheaper than the denon but the sound is so much better he claims. (and I believe him)It also has a built in tuner. About hiss with klipsch speakers, I can't tell because he has the B&W nautilus 803's. hissing denon's??? this is already a possible alternative. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 Well, I am not sure if I can get the Marantz here in Dubai, but I'll check. ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 BTW, how much does the Marantz SR-9200 cost? ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 11, 2002 Author Share Posted May 11, 2002 Check out this quote about the Marantz SR-9200 from www.audioreview.com quote: So far the sr9200 seems to be doing everything it supposed to be doing as far as its processors and stereo mode. I am pleased with the remote and its audio capabilities. I am not so sure about its power rating at this point because compared with the Denon 4802 or 4800, those models seemed to have more power. Strange? ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 one downside on marantz is they refuse to put in adjustable crossovers even on the new ones. i have the sr8000 (didn't know enough then) but wouldn't buy a new marantz until they get more on the ball w/ flexible bass mgmt. denon is now on the ball & b&k has been for awhile now. may not be as important to some though. also, u may want to take a look at the b&k avr307 (or european equivalent if they have it). ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted May 11, 2002 Share Posted May 11, 2002 mrsp : +/- $3200 but it can go as low as $2345, maybe lower. (They have also the SR-8200 comming out soon) About the power ratings. Be carefull here. Denon AVC-A11SR : 7 x 180 Watt (6 Ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7 % THD) Marantz SR-9200 : 7 x 140 Watts (8 Ohm, < 0.05% THD, 20 Hz - 20 kHz. You see the diffs here!! Denon is measured at 1kHz, 6Ohms and 0.7 thd!! while the marantz at 0.05 thd!!!! 8 Ohms and on a full frequency range!!!! If Denon would have measured the power under the same conditions as marantz did, denon should be happy if it would still reach the 100 Watts. Denon AVC-A1SR : 220 Watt (6 Ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7 % THD). That would come close to the marantz, but still. Personaly I would not go on these figures. They give some info at some point but that is it. Some test magazines give more usefull information and even give a 3-d graph with x-axis the power, y-axis the phase shift and z-axis the impedance. Yep the power depends on many things!! The marantz will beat the denon no doubt in that!!. The guy who bought showed me the graphs of the denon and the marantz. The marantz held his power even with phase shift and an impedance of 3Ohms!! The denon(AVC-A1SE) on the other hand would choke himself and bring out a merely 50 watts! But it all depends on the load (speakers) you use. With klipsch, no problem at all. ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Pioneer VSX-909RDS DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3 tFTP Rear: RF-3 tFTP Center: RC-3 tFTP SubW: KSW-12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 KAiN64, I would suggest looking a other manufacturers other than only Denon. I have the same Reference 7 setup like you are indending on purchasing with a Denon 3802. There is a definite hiss (without any source), but you either have to crank it up to hear it, or get within about 4 to 5 feet of the RF-7 horns. I can't notice it when a source is playing, all I hear is hiss in the recording (due to the high sensitivity of the RF-7's). The hiss is tolerable, but what I find very annoying is there is sometimes a clicking noise when changing the volume setting (with and without remote). This is sometimes quite loud. I heard other Denons have this problem as well. I don't know if the 4802 has the exact same problems, but I have heard people on this board complain about the 5800 being 'noisy' too. I purchased the 3802 because it was all the money I could afford after buying my speakers. I knew full well that I would upgrade from it when I could afford. I must say though, the Denon's are packed with features, and the 3802 is much more than what I expected. I think I'm going to go with separates when I upgrade, the new Aragon stuff looks intriguing. U-Sparc - I think that the Denon has similar specifications to the Marantz in 8-Ohms through the full frequency range (I haven't checked, just going from memory here. Although, if I recall correctly, I think the 4802 only has 125wpc. Please correct me if I'm wrong! -PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 i'd try to not get hung up on the noise floor when there's nothin playin. how it sounds when playing is what matters. 1) mute circuits connect the channels so it's less discrete. 2) there's no magic filter out there that can discern between hiss & the good high frequency material you want to hear. when stuff's playin you hear the good stuff, not the hiss. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 pierceeb said: There is a definite hiss (without any source), but you either have to crank it up to hear it, or get within about 4 to 5 feet of the RF-7 horns. I can't notice it when a source is playing, all I hear is hiss in the recording (due to the high sensitivity of the RF-7's). Interesting, because I barely get any hissing out of my AVR3802. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have to put my ear right up against the speaker grill to hear the hissing, even when cranked up to full blast. This is with the pair of RF-7s I am currently trying out (and I have a feeling the dealer wont be seeing them again ). I checked it both in regular "stereo" mode and one of the Digital modes. I don't know how new your AVR3802 is, but I just got mine within the last month. Maybe they cleaned it up a bit in the more recently made units (or there is a particularly noisy lot out there). ------------------ Steven Konopa Fredericksburg, VA Denon AVR3802 RF-3II (Front) RC-3II (Center) RC-3II (Rear) RS-3II (A surrounds) Infinity RS2000.5 (B surrounds - recycled) REL Storm III (Subwoofer 1) Yamaha YST-SW40 (Subwoofer 2 - recycled) 32 inch Sharp (TV) JVC XV-S65GD (DVD) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 I am attaching my response from the referenced thread. I spent quite some time to validate that the hiss in the 3802 was of no consequence for my listening. This was looked at with Heresy's as mains and sides: >>>Well - I tried some of the same stuff as you described with my 3802 and found the following (my apologies to anyone who may have read a much earlier report from me that there was no hiss): >>>1. In my set up - the hiss is clearly there in all the DPL II, DTS, DD and DSP settings. In all of these the hiss becomes evident (no source and listening very closely) around -2db. Only clearly hisses around 0db. This is way loud and is an OK thing for me right now. I am at 75db around -12db. >>2. In stereo (and less so in 5/7 channel stereo) it can get to nothing in all but CD, where a slight hiss appears at 10db. In my setup - I only can go to 16db in stereo and 9db in most dsp. >>It only ccurs in very loud volume levels that I will not be using.>>>>> As I said - this happens at way too loud a volume for me to notice, and yes I have seen it on many excellent quality recievers. ------------------ Hwatkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diggs Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 quote: Originally posted by hwatkins: I am attaching my response from the referenced thread. I spent quite some time to validate that the hiss in the 3802 was of no consequence for my listening. This was looked at with Heresy's as mains and sides: >>>Well - I tried some of the same stuff as you described with my 3802 and found the following (my apologies to anyone who may have read a much earlier report from me that there was no hiss): >>>1. In my set up - the hiss is clearly there in all the DPL II, DTS, DD and DSP settings. In all of these the hiss becomes evident (no source and listening very closely) around -2db. Only clearly hisses around 0db. This is way loud and is an OK thing for me right now. I am at 75db around -12db. >>2. In stereo (and less so in 5/7 channel stereo) it can get to nothing in all but CD, where a slight hiss appears at 10db. In my setup - I only can go to 16db in stereo and 9db in most dsp. >>It only ccurs in very loud volume levels that I will not be using.>>>>> As I said - this happens at way too loud a volume for me to notice, and yes I have seen it on many excellent quality recievers. Ditto here with mine. Hissing at extremely high volume levels with no source playing. Never heard hissing once when playing material though. ------------------ My hodge-podge of equipment Denon AVR-2800 KG-4 mains (too bad the rest of my speakers aren't this good) Polk C-175 center (it's ok) Infinity RS-10 Surrounds (suck) Audiosource SW-15 subwoofer (excellent sub for it's price) Pioneer DV333 DVD Sony 5 disc CD player All in a 12x12 apartment bedroom. "What?! I can't hear you!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 I have owned many receivers over the last 30 years and the receiver that I have been happiest with is the one I have now, a Denon 3801. It has options galore. Unless you enjoy listening to hiss, spend more time worrying about the sound that it makes when playing music. Go listen for yourself. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 12, 2002 Share Posted May 12, 2002 there's a new movie out at blockbuster called "Boa". that's the only time i've heard hiss from the sweet spot when the material's playing. actually it's a good movie i believe also in dts. but i may be biased. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted May 13, 2002 Author Share Posted May 13, 2002 Hey! I just found out that there is a Marantz dealer here and Dubai and he also has the Marantz SR9200! Yay! BTW, he is asking $2,888. Is this a good price for the Marantz SR9200? Should I get this over the Denon AVR-4802? ------------------ Coming soon... Home Theater: TV: Sony KV-ES38M91 (38" Direct View FD Triniton WEGA) A/V Receiver: Denon AVC-A11SR (European version of Denon AVR-4802) DVD Player: Denon DVD-3800 Center: Klipsch RC-7 Mains: Klipsch RF-7s Surrounds: Klipsch RS-7s Subwoofer: SVS CS-Ultra w/Samson S1000 amplifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted May 13, 2002 Share Posted May 13, 2002 kain, when u get the speakers & cables set up, then start demoing those other components at home. only way to really know. u gotta have a denon dealer around there no? any b&k or some of those others? ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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