Empire Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I posted this over the the G-sale section but was actually going to post here instead after I'd fully completed the project. http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/p/160655/1701698.aspx You can check the full description and a lot more photos here: http://www.holyflood.com/EMPIRE.HTML Basically I've been a dealer for a dozen years and modified this set to get the horns/tweets up in the air, the way I preferred them in the Khorns for example. I added some side-firing tweeters (mirrored) similar to Bose's direct reflect design, as well as some bass band pass ports which fire out the rear of the cabs. I couldn't be more pleased with the response; everything I was hoping for and more.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Some pretty interesting mods. On an esthetic level, I think you've managed to take Klipsch's most attractive speaker and make it look like a 1970's jukebox, which I'm sorry to say is not a compliment. You also mention you added side-firing tweeters to "assist imaging". Sorry to break this to you but that's a great way to destroy the imaging and probably create some nasty room nodes at the same time. Klipsch heritage models have a lot of phasing problems because the drivers are not phase aligned. Adding extra hf drivers pointing in off directions can only make the problem worse. Case in point are Bose 901's, which are about the poorest imaging speakers of all time. It also appears you cut a hole in the central woofer bin and then put some vents to the outside, apparently with some gizmo to only allow air to move out. That destroys the acoustical properties of the bass section, which must be tightly sealed to work properly, and goes one step farther and creates a loose half-wave acoustical rectifier. I'm betting the bass sounds different to you because it is now resonant at a fairly high frequency, creating a big hump in the bass while killing the overall performance of the bass section. Putting the cabinet up on feet will also alter the bass response. It's great you've been able to save an old beat up pair of Belle's, but I doubt anyone familiar with Belles would want to be the next owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 I agree that the Belle is one of K's most attractive speakers. You can imagine my disdain when I first set eyes on the abuse the cabs had received as a result of being gigged. I felt incredibly duped and misled. I had no desire to return home empty handed so I instead opted to renogiate the price and part them out if nothing else. I bought a few other things from the same seller but nothing significant, until I went back on another day and bought a modern set of LSI's and some great Altec equipment, both of which were very profitable for me in the end. Honestly? My thoughts were to gut the cabs and haul them to the dump, not wanting to even MESS WITH selling and shipping them in their current condition. I assessed that the component value was worth more than the speakers as a whole so really had no other alternatives. There was missing veneer and it was not cost effective to overhaul the cabs and expect to turn them at a profit. They wouldn't be original. I couldn't imagine painting a set of Belle's rather than leaving the wood exposed so I didn't want to offer them up that way either. The woofs needed refoaming. Seems to me at least one of the tweets was blown, I can't remember now (they often are in the Heritage line when I buy them). In his ad the seller had represented the cabs as 'needing a little sanding and oil to clean them up' as well as 'working great'. Of course he wasn't able to demo them there in his warehouse. Let's just say that the final price was right even after everything was taken into account. The followup trip was megaworth our dealings with the Belle's. So I was left with a project. My goal was sound and performance at the SACRIFICE of aesthetics, as mentioned in my garage sale thread. I was in love with Khorns IN THE PROPER ROOM but didn't have an effective room in my former home. I made the mods as described and shown in the pics, my primary purpose simply to elevate everything to a better listening level. Ever notice that most smaller live music venues are ON A STAGE and the sound is produced ABOVE YOUR HEAD? I don't like having to be confined to sitting in a chair to enjoy that perfect sweet spot, and in the Khorn equation, perhaps only 10' away to make it perfect (depending on the room itself). Anyway, yada yada yada about imaging. The human ear is an amazing thing and short of having the acoustically perfect room you're going to be dealing with sound dispersion, echoing, reflection, and much more. There's a continuing debate about whether speakers should be parallel or angled toward one another. Bose has their concept but what I did was certainly NOT a Bose application. Speaker designers have forever provided dispersed tweeter angles to provide different effects. What I did was subtle at best and I don't mind adding once again that I think the EV tweeters are a weak application when compared to what's on the market today. Klipsch? Hmmmm. Klipsch uses EV tweeters, Eminence/University/Jensen etc. woofers, and the list goes on. Add the EV H-350 tweeters and maybe you'll be saying something, or the Jensen RP302's, both superior to the T-35. My personal woofer favorite in the Khorn is the Jensen P15LL, but what does it matter... Perhaps it's best to think of this as a different speaker brand altogether, THE EMPIRE, and go from there. Then assess it as it's own animal. Steve Saleen mods the Mustang and does a pretty good job of it, geared toward PERFORMANCE. The bass mods not only IMPROVED the bass performance, they OVERPOWERED the listening area. I had to remove the K-33 and put in something less overpowering just so I could better enjoy the entire sound package. Bass hogs (subwoofer fiends) will absolutely LOVE LOVE LOVE the performance of the K-33 in these cabs. There is absolutely nothing lost whatsoever and they now very much perform as the Khorns do in the proper room, one of my initial objectives. So no, these are no longer KLIPSCH. They are EMPIRE. Their own animal. They have BORROWED from the Belle and now become their own creation. If I wasn't moving and drastically downsizing, and hadn't closed my audio business, I'd hold onto them and do what I could to get them to shows around the nation. I will one day mod another PRISTINE set while enhancing the overall aesthetic value. My guests will continue to be amazed over the unbelievable listening experience that these create. Beyond that, I say happy listening to all!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 They look a bit lik E.T., but if you are happy with them, thats all that counts. Craig 73 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 They look a bit lik E.T., but if you are happy with them, thats all that counts. Craig 73 Actually that was one of my first thoughts when I was trying to determine how to mount that center box. But I errored on the side of performance vs. aesthetics and left it at that. I wanted that horn and tweeter section to be floating out there on it's own, similar to a pole mounted PA speaker. I've thought about remounting it, centering it more and making it a bit less 'controversial', but I'll probably leave it and just continue to enjoy the desired results. Any reasonable offer is going to own them so it can't get much simpler than that. I don't want to haul them back to Vegas with me; traveling light this trip, selling my pickup truck as well. This is my LAST SET of speakers that I own of any kind. I pulled them from my warehouse before selling it all off because they were completely disassembled for paint and finish and I knew the next owner would have no idea what it all was or how to put it back together. I couldn't let them fall to such a fate. Once re-assembled I didn't want to let them go, but space is an issue and as stated before I'll just build another set when the day comes, this time with a pristine set of cabs as a starting point. I'm dying to hear how these will sound with a taylored sets of Crites crossovers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniper8 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 I beg to differ gentlemen, more like a robot from the late 40's. Now we need to have a beauty contest between these and the "Warthogs". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Kinda of makes me think of the old Ampex Recorders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We also didn't go into what happens when you start adding drivers to an existing crossover network. I guess what you've done to the speakers shows you don't really have a clue as to how speakers work, and that seems to work in your favor in this case. Glad you like them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empire Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 We also didn't go into what happens when you start adding drivers to an existing crossover network. I guess what you've done to the speakers shows you don't really have a clue as to how speakers work, and that seems to work in your favor in this case. Glad you like them. Actually I'm well aware of it, and the only one who seems to be espousing any ignorance of the facts is the one hurling the insults. Note the details about having a custom crossover built. But who cares about facts, right Droid? I've been dealing with naysayers and 'experts' for over a decade now. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We also didn't go into what happens when you start adding drivers to an existing crossover network. I guess what you've done to the speakers shows you don't really have a clue as to how speakers work, and that seems to work in your favor in this case. Glad you like them. Actually I'm well aware of it, and the only one who seems to be espousing any ignorance of the facts is the one hurling the insults. Note the details about having a custom crossover built. But who cares about facts, right Droid? I've been dealing with naysayers and 'experts' for over a decade now. wow! too shay! I think your speakers are cool. You should go check out my thread on the dumpster sub. [] We were having fun, but life is way too short to be so regimental and serious about everything. It is interesting how you had to downgrade the woofer due to the new design. Fascinating... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis419b Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 We also didn't go into what happens when you start adding drivers to an existing crossover network. I guess what you've done to the speakers shows you don't really have a clue as to how speakers work, and that seems to work in your favor in this case. Glad you like them. Actually I'm well aware of it, and the only one who seems to be espousing any ignorance of the facts is the one hurling the insults. Note the details about having a custom crossover built. But who cares about facts, right Droid? I've been dealing with naysayers and 'experts' for over a decade now. Gee Empire ! It looks as though you have come to the wrong place to get your pats on the back for what you have thrown together while claiming they are the best sounding Belles on the planet ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Kinda of makes me think of the old Ampex Recorders Aint that thar one of those microwave ranges? [^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 We also didn't go into what happens when you start adding drivers to an existing crossover network. I guess what you've done to the speakers shows you don't really have a clue as to how speakers work, and that seems to work in your favor in this case. Glad you like them. Actually I'm well aware of it, and the only one who seems to be espousing any ignorance of the facts is the one hurling the insults. Note the details about having a custom crossover built. But who cares about facts, right Droid? I've been dealing with naysayers and 'experts' for over a decade now. Gee Empire ! It looks as though you have come to the wrong place to get your pats on the back for what you have thrown together while claiming they are the best sounding Belles on the planet ! Indeed. I suspect we'll see them listed on ebay for a few years at $10K with no takers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 They're in Oregon: http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/2894945487.html http://www.holyflood.com/EMPIRE.HTML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T.H.E. Droid Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 Already deleted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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