Speaker wire building. Crimp or solder?

[GaryA]

I am going to build my own speaker wires and had a couple of questions. I'm going to use either Canare Star Quad wire or Clark Wire & Cable wire. Both have 4 jacketed wires twisted inside an outside jacket. I will 2 wires to + terminal and 2 wires to the neg terminal for wires (not bi-wired). I was going to use either Monster Cable terminals or some from Partsexpress.com (already got some terminals for my 2 ch system wires and is a good company). I'll be building these for my front soundstage for my home theater so it will be 3 wires+terminals. Should I crimp the terminals or solder them? If I solder them should I use silver solder or will a general 60/40 solder do? The terminals will be 24k gold plated of course. Thanks for you help. Regards, Gary.

[kenratboy]

DISCLAIMER: I have not actually done this project.

I would use solder. It is less likely to come off, there will be no corrosion at the connection point, and it will give better contact.

Good luck, use Parts Express!

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Receiver: Sony STR-DE675

CD player: Sony CDP-CX300

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Speakers: JBL HLS-610

Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8

Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt

Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs

Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo!

[michael hurd]

I would suggest mechanically crimping with a proper tool and then soldering as silver solder has very little mechanical strengh and most people try to use it as a glue -- this will not work. You can get an acceptable joinst ( strength ) with regular electronics solder. The only downside is that when soldering, you now have an area past the solder joint that is stiff. If the wire is removed and or bent often, then the wire will break at this point.

[Malcolm]

Good results can be achieved either by soldering or by crimping. Successful crimping requires the right terminals and tools for the job. Proper crimping gives both a good mechanical bond and a good electrical bond. Soldering is more forgiving for a neophyte. Even if you do an ugly job of soldering, you will probably have a good electrical connection unless you starve the joint or create a cold joint. Soldering won't result in as good a mechanical bond as crimping, but IMHO it is good enough for speaker cables. Of course, you could crimp and solder. I would use a 63/37 lead/tin alloy for soldering.

I would not waste my time with gold plated connectors unless you just like the looks. The 24K gold plating is too soft, and too thin, to last very long. And unless there is a layer of nickel or the like between the copper and the gold, the copper will migrate through the gold anyway.

I like Parts Express, too.

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Gary- A mechanical crimp, if done properly, will provide you with a better electrical connection than solder. If you use the proper crimp tool, as indicated by the manufacturer of the lugs, it should form a gas-tight bond between the wire/lug, preventing oxidation in the boundry. Solder has a very poor mechanical bond and even worse electrical bond for high current applications. The goal here should be a crimp joint of sufficient pressure that the metal from both pieces being joined actually combine(mix) at the interface boundry. If possible, use a tool with a high enough mechanical advantage. Good luck Mr. Phelps.

This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-05-2002 at 05:05 PM

[GaryA]

Thanks for the feedback! I did my first set of 12 ga wires with crimping with a friends ratcheting crimpers. This worked very well. I'm not sure when I start using 10 ga connectors and the Canare or Clark cable if these crimpers will fit around the connectors. Anyone here that can recommend a pr of crimpers that I could look at online? If you have a part # it would help in my search. I looked through Partsexpress but didn't find exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks, Gary.

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Here's one manufacturers site. Look for crimping tools. http://elec-cat.tnb.com/ These are the types of tools that companies like AQ use(8 ton, 12 ton,..., etc)to terminate their speaker cable. If they are too pricey, you may want to get chummy with a local store that sells AQ cable. Most will terminate, or have the tooling, to terminate the AQ "Midnight" type cables which are 10 gauge. You may have to use the AQ terminals that they sell, you know they will be done correctly as well. Good luck Mr. Phelps.

[Dinkie Diesel]

I just made my own cables from Canare's 4 wire product. I looked at the prices of these pre-assembled cords and decided I wouldn't be able to tell the difference anyway. I used the gold plated banana connectors and silver solder form Grainger. I expected the worse but they came out looking like factory cords. I used 3M shrink wrap in different colors and they work great as far as my ears can tell. The silver solder melts at approx. 400 degrees. I used an industrial heat gun and it didn't even melt the jacket on the wire.

I am using Aragon's Dual Mono 8008BB and a 8008x5 driven by a Soundstage. Definitive 3000's up front and BP30's in the rear. They don't seem to be starving for current.

The remark about making a gas tight seal with a crimping tool is probably much harder for me than it would be to solder. It's true that the solder is soft but I don't think you could pull it off by hand and I won't be pulling my 4WD out of the mud using my speaker cable anyway.

Enjoy whatever you decide!

[justin_tx_16]

check out this months Home Theater Magazine, page 39. talks about speaker wire installation and whatnot. a pretty nice read. Also check out the new JBL Ti10KBE's. A work of art?

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-justin

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[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Here's another site with some modest, yet very effective, crip tools. http://www.panduiteeg.com/tools/tools_terminal.asp

[WMcD]

I'm not here to say anything bad about crimping.

On the other hand, I can't imagine why soldering should fall from grace. Just about every electrical connection in any electronic component is soldered. That means just about every thing in the string from microphone, to mixer board, to recorder, to CD player, to amp to speaker. Save the interconnect.

How come we think some new logic applies to the interconnect?

There is, naturally an issue if you assume a bad solder joint versus a good crimp, or the other way around.

I can't quite agree with SJ that there is anything wrong with solder for "high current" applications, at least in our applications. The coil windings in our speaker drivers, and most cross over connections are soldered. The output transistors connections in our amps are soldered.

I'd agree that solder shouldn't be used as paste to some extent. Old time wiring manuals insist on twisting wires around a terminal post. Then soldering.

However, this is not always the practice. If you build up a "through the hole circuit board" full of components, there is no mechanical bond except the solder. Also, with surface mount technology, the components are indeed pasted in postition with solder. This describes most modern electronics.

When working with speaker leads I try to crimp and solder when possible. If the electrical joint is subject to mechanical strain, there is something wrong with the design. Neither crimping nor soldering is the solution.

Gil

This message has been edited by William F. Gil McDermott on 06-09-2002 at 08:28 PM

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

quote:

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Originally posted by William F. Gil McDermott:

I'm not here to say anything bad about crimping.

On the other hand, I can't imagine why soldering should fall from grace. Just about every electrical connection in any electronic component is soldered. That means just about every thing in the string from microphone, to mixer board, to recorder, to CD player, to amp to speaker. Save the interconnect.

How come we think some new logic applies to the interconnect?

There is, naturally an issue if you assume a bad solder joint versus a good crimp, or the other way around.

I can't quite agree with SJ that there is anything wrong with solder for "high current" applications, at least in our applications. The coil windings in our speaker drivers, and most cross over connections are soldered. The output transistors connections in our amps are soldered.

I'd agree that solder shouldn't be used as paste to some extent. Old time wiring manuals insist on twisting wires around a terminal post. Then soldering.

However, this is not always the practice. If you build up a "through the hole circuit board" full of components, there is no mechanical bond except the solder. Also, with surface mount technology, the components are indeed pasted in postition with solder. This describes most modern electronics.

When working with speaker leads I try to crimp and solder when possible. If the electrical joint is subject to mechanical strain, there is something wrong with the design. Neither crimping nor soldering is the solution.

Gil

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Gil- Gary is making speaker cables, not interconnects. Boards are soldered because it is physically and economically impossible to wire all the components together otherwise. It is purely a practical manufacturing decision to solder to a board. If you had ever spent time on the bench, 6 years on military electronics and 3 years on industrial equipment in my case, you would have seen many "correctly" wave soldered boards go bad with through hole construction. The expanding/contracting by way of component heating/cooling and their movement in relation to the board and it's through holes causes these joints to fail. It is because they have no mechanical connection to speak of. Soldering alone is a COMPROMISE. Take a look at a Mac, Welbourne Labs, Marshall, or any good device wired point-to-point and you should see "old time wiring" construction that, BTW, is still taught in books and practiced at many colleges for grade! Solder is SOFT and has little mechanical strength. Try pulling on a piece, what happens? It is also a poor current conductor with respect to the pieces in is supposed to join. For a little experiment, take a length of solder and hook it in series with a known load and assume(again) the solder has zero resistance. Now adjust your power supply so the circuit passes increasing current. What fails first and at what current value? Now you must ask, "How many manufacturers use a solder joint on their speaker cables even if will save them money?". Or will it? Maybe it'll cost them more to repair a cable gone bad. Soldering is done on interconnects as well, but again, it is impractical to crimp wire to this site, so we solder. It is a compromise as well. AudioQuest knows this and this is why their interconnects are welded. Welding is a form of a mechanical as well as a better electrical connection than is solder alone. Soldering is also NOT the only method of joining components within the playback chain. The internal speaker wire uses push-on and ring terminals in many positions to connect individual elements to the crossover and crossover to the inside of the binding posts(although not in Klipsch). Speaker cables use mechanical connections to the speaker and amp by tightening down on a nut, it is a form of crimp. Inside the amp, ring terminals, that are crimped to wire, are again utilized to connect to the binding posts and many manufacturers are bolting the output wire to the boards. It is really only on the mass market drivers and the highly populated low current circuit boards, where solder is used. OUTPUT TRANSISTORS soldered? That's changing too...looked into a cutting edge Krell lately? Ever seen the connections inside a JBL, TAD, Altec, or other high end driver? Crimp connections and screws everywhere! WBT, who many consider to make the finest audio connections, has recently developed rca connectors that you tighten low level signal wire with a wrench...WHY? It is simply a better connection when done correctly...IMPO.

This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-10-2002 at 07:29 PM

[WMcD]

All well and good. And I'll grant you, SJ, most of what you say.

I have some experience with solder having built a dozen Heathkits. Yup, that long ago. Yes, solder joints do fail. As you say, it is sometimes because of stress. I've seen it most often when there is reverse bending stress. It is odd that a soft alloy cracks but it does happen.

I don't think it is a fair test to run current through a "wirelength" of solder and therefore conclude it is poor in conventional applications. It works in conventional applications because there is a decent cross section of solder linking the component to the board or other wire.

As I said, when connecting wire to an interconnect, I crimp it down, and then solder. No failures in my experience.

Screw down connections might be considered a form of crimping, but this is hardly similar to a crimped splice with a Milspec rachet tool and the correct connector. In my experience, these sort of screw down connections are prone to result in bad electrical connections, over time.

I wouldn't doubt that welding is a good approach. Welding seems to me closer to soldering than crimping.

I'll also grant that many connections in industry are made without solder. House wiring is. The phone company uses punch down and wire wrap with good results.

I have to politely stand my ground on the issue of connecting wire to an interconnect. I'm not familiar with the exact interconnect or wire being used by Gary. None the less, in general, if it is possible to get a good mechanical connection supplemented by solder, I think that is a very good approach.

Best,

Gil

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Gil, soldering a joint that is crimped improperly(ie, insufficient pressure) can help with it's integrity. What I mean to say is if it is done properly should not need solder. Spot welding is actually more like crimping. The molecules at the interface boundry of the two metals are forced to commingle(one by electrical means, the other pressure) until the two become one. It is similar to the way they make clad pots and pans. Solder actually creates more boundries and the resin is always in the joint although it has been cleaned well externally. Peace.

This message has been edited by SOUNDJUNKIE on 06-11-2002 at 01:32 AM

[WMcD]

SJ and I will never come to a complete accord.

Maybe we should return to Gary's question.

Gary, can you send some photos of what you're up to. Or at least let us know how things are coming along.

The ultimate goal should be to share information here.

Best regards to all.

Gil

[SOUNDJUNKIE]

Ditto, and that's OK.

[Michael Greenway]

I read this theory once when shopping for cables.

http://www.audioquest.com/theory/cable_theory.html

[WMcD]

As far as the debate with SJ, I'll declare peace with honor and go back to my soldering iron. We agree it is important to have a good connection, if not on the best way to achieve it.

I believe the stuff on the link to Audioquest is misleading in that it injects issues which are inapplicable or falacious.

This directionality issue comes up from time to time. In truth, current is being pulled back and forth in an cable with alternating current, like our audio signals. It is quite pointless to claim that there is any directionality if the current is going in both directions every other half cycle.

I can't buy skin effect either, in our application. It does certainly come into effect at radio frequencies. But at audio frequencies. No.

Lengths of wire do have capacitance and inductance. True. These are very minimal compared to the same values in our speakers.

Believe me, if any wire manufacturer will come up with a frequency response plot which shows a significant advantage over zip cord when connected to a speaker, I'll take a close look. So far, I've not seen it.

I like spending money for better performance. Super wire doesn't convince me.

Gil