DizRotus Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 I've seen the Heresy described as having an "airtight" enclosure. In reality it seems far from it. The removable back does not appear to seal tightly. One of my 1982 speakers had the motor board (I was surprised to see that it was merely stapled to the cleats inside the enclosure)pull loose. I removed the staples, put some thin foam weatherstripping on the mounting surface for the motor board and used drywall screws instead of staples. While I was at it, I put the weatherstripping under the back panel too. There certainly are fewer air leaks now, but without sealing the tweeter and squawker to the back of the motor board, the Heresy is still not "airtight." All of that undamped plywood on the interior, the lack of seals between the horns and the motor board and the removable back is unlike most other "sealed" speakers. Would Heresy speakers benefit by being truly sealed and by having the plywood panels dampened? Last, has anyone else experienced the stapled motor board pulling loose? Given the construction of the rest of the speakers, those staples are a shock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 17, 2002 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Dizrotus... Can you post a pic of those front glue blocks as taken from inside the speaker, viewing them from the back? If the Heresy was built properly, then the front blocks were glued AND stapled to the sides and top/bottoms, then the corners where they meet the inside miter glue blocks(if a mitered box) were caulked. Then a good glue line was put down on the front face of those glue blocks, and the fronts were installed using staples. What I am interested in seeing in a pic is whether the blocks that the front was secured to have their outer ply glued to the front OR the side/top/bottom... A good EXPERIENCED builder would have ensured the blocks had their outer veneer face TOWARD the front and rear, and the plys toward the sides/top/bottom. An inexperienced builder would possibly have the blocks turned the other way...and may have neglected to put down a glue line to secure the front OR not put down a sufficient enough glue line!! A Heresy is supposed to be air tight ENOUGH so that no squeaks occur when the woofer cone moves back and forth...that is all! Sometimes new guys were given the task of installation of the fronts after the regular builder built the box itself in the pneumatic box-clamp machine used to build your year model of mitered Heresy...and they neglected things that the builder didn't notice because he was NOT in a line of sight with them as they worked. New guys normally hated helping me...because I always watched them do their part as I built the boxes...and I was DEFINITELY NOT afraid to tell em to rip out something improperly installed BEFORE the glue set-up, clean it up, and do it again, but "DO IT RIGHT THIS TIME!!...and if you don't want to have to continue ripping stuff out and re-installing it, then DO IT RIGHT EVERY DAMNED TIME, because I AM WATCHING YOU!!"...LOL! I must have said that a million times or more, too!! On the assembly of birch decorator models, the builder was always on a line of sight with his helper when he had one...and seldom overlooked any mistakes the helper would make!! As you should know, the GLUE is what really holds the speaker together, the staples are just to provide reinforcement for the glue, and to secure the part in place while the glue sets-up!! To properly re-install the front, just glue those glue blocks up well with some tite-bond white cabinet glue...being sure to use a CONTINUOUS 1/8th inch wide glue line center of mass of the glue blocks, and staple it in...or use the screws you have already used. Be sure that the corners of those blocks are well-caulked prior to installing the front...a nice smooth caulk job!! To properly align the front when securing it..pull it to the top panel (using the tweeter opening to pull it up tight to the top), divide the distance of gap found on each side with half of it to either side, and attach the top edge, then divide the gap half to each side at the bottom, and attach it, then attach each side. If using staples, they should be 1/8" wide, 1-1/8" long, coated prong-type. Duofast staples were used for your year of manufacture. Your Heresy Backs should be tight enough, unless they have been removed too often...when installing them it is proper to apply some pressure to the back itself as you tighten the screws down, being sure not to strip out the screw holes. The glue blocks on the back are also supposed to be installed with a veneer face towards the front and rear of the cabinet...and the ply edges towards the sides/top/bottom. This method of installation lets the screw get a better grip instead of being driven up between the plys. All glue blocks are installed using the white glue and staples...as are all the fronts on that era Heresys and Cornwalls. Looks like you ended up with some partially built by a new guy who was more intereested in speed than proper technique. Too bad. There was alot of employee turnover during that time period. By 1981 over half the builders had less than a year of experience..and most didn't even stay a year, either. If the speaker cabinet is properly built, it is airtight enough not to have squeaks when it leaves the plant...all speakers were tested prior to packing, anyway...but staples without glue may hold the front secure enough to pass this testing, and later on after bouncing around in shipment, etc, over the years...come loose. The GLUE holds them together, NOT the staples!! My advice is to remove those fronts, remove the weather stripping, and GLUE them in using those screws to secure them, since they now have screws. I have had my Heresys since 1978...and a hell of a lot of folks have had their Heresys for even longer...with no air leak problems. If the speaker is built properly, it functions properly...You just ended up with a lemon that managed to make it out the door!! If the front and rear glue blocks were glued and stapled to the sides/top/bottom CORRECTLY, then there will be six staples in the ones attached to the sides, and four staples in the ones attached to the top/bottom panels. The fronts would have been secured with a good glue line and with three staples each along the top and bottom, and five staples on each side....on the ones like you have from that year of manufacture! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-17-2002 at 10:44 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 I can relate to that problem with the staples. I had a pair of H-700s - the 1965 version of the Heresy - sent to me by UPS. UPS, evidently thinking "FOB" meant "Flatten or Bash," dropped one of the cabinets hard enough that the bolts holding the woofer in place got ripped through the motor board, splintering the plywood as they passed. Lucky for me, the motor board was a "drop-in" which was held in place with wood screws, so I could remove the grill cloth (after pulling over 200 staples,) and take the wreckage to a nearby cabinet shop (Jacob's Reproductions in Godfrey, IL. I recommend them highly.) The guys there made a replacement motorboard - even countersinking the screw holes for me. So now I'm back in business - after painting the board, painting the replacement screw heads, reattaching the grill, putting the "pie-slice" logo back on, remounting all the drivers, and gluing and clamping the mitre-joint that had opened up as well. Whew! Capt'n Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 18, 2002 Author Share Posted June 18, 2002 HDBR, Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I can't post photos, as the 60 gig hard drive in my primary computer crashed. This old back-up computer lacks the programs needed to retrieve photos from my camera. The glue blocks seem to be solidly attached to the sides of the enclosure. A rather anemic "glue line" is evident on the surfaces of glue blocks. It was obviously not enough glue to hold the motorboard in place (the speaker probably rode on its back in the FedEx truck when it made the trip from San Diego to Michigan). I will take your advice regarding the reattachment of the motorboards in both speakers. Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty65 Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 HDBR, What type of caulk would you recommend for caulking around the blocks? thanks, Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 18, 2002 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Marty65, Plain old white latex caulk is what we used when I worked there. Dizrotus, Before gluing those fronts back in, be sure to scrape off all the old glue on both the back of the speaker front and the glue blocks...so that the two surfaces fit snugly...and the new glue line will squash out well. ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-18-2002 at 10:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 HDBR, Now that I think about it, riding on their backs in the FedEx Ground trucks from San Diego to Michigan would have been the safest position, as the weight of the assembled motorboards would have tended to hold them in place against the glue blocks. Riding on their faces would have hade the opposite effect. Of the eight possible ways they could have been loaded into the trucks, only face down would have prevented the weight of the motorboard assemblies from pulling against the glue and staples. My speakers have cosmetically rough cabinets so their is no reason to preserve ariginality for the sake of collector value. The components are in excellent shape and the speakers sound great when the motorboards aren't flopping against the glue blocks. Therefore, I will remove the old glue and reglue and secure the motorboards with 1 5/8" #6 drywall screws located at the sites of the old staples. The black phillips heads of the countersunk screws make for a neater appearance than the bare wood divits and exposed staple heads in the black motorboards. Those exposed staple heads always looked bad to me, even before the motorboard came loose. I realize that the glue alone should hold the motorboards in place and that the staples merely served to temporarily secure the motorboards during assembly, until the glue set-up. Nevertheless, the screws and glue eliminate any possibility of another loose motorboard. Based on your comments, I will resist the temptation to seal the horns to the backs of the motorboards. With the motorboards and backs securely in place, I'll assume the enclosures are "air-tight ENOUGH" to satisfy PWK. Thanks again, Neil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 19, 2002 Author Share Posted June 19, 2002 SIX SIDES TO A CUBE, i.e., SIX POSSIBLE WAYS TO BE LOADED INTO A TRUCK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 19, 2002 Share Posted June 19, 2002 Original Heresy shipping boxes had a "this side up" which hat arrows pointing in direction of front of speaker as it was situated in the box...for a reason!! They were SUPPOSED to be shipped with the BACKS FACING DOWN, to eliminate any problems!! As long as the front surfaces of the horn lens mouths and the woofer are snugged up tight to the back of the motorboards, there SHOULD be no air leaks in those areas for the speakers under normal usage. The same can be said for the backs being snugged up tight to their blocks. No gasket material was ever needed. There may be some cases where after a time the backs won't seal properly, but that is normally because they have been removed a number of times. Remember to use the technique I mentioned about alignment of the front to the top/bottom and sides when you mount it into the cabinet, because that ensures the cabinet remains "square"!! It ALSO tends to eliminate possible air leaks at the back, too, because it will not be "racked" when snugged up!! Just slip your "holding hand's" fingers into the tweeter hole, palm against the speaker top, using your hand like a clamp to snug front up to speaker top, and center it in the box with gaps on each side equidistant from speaker sides, tighten top edge down, then center bottom edge of front with gap equidistant from inner part of each side, tighten it down...then do each side!! That is how we did it at the plant!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted June 5, 2005 Author Share Posted June 5, 2005 This was a test. Had it been a real post, you would have been instructed to tune to .... Actually, it was just an experiment inserting photos directly into a post using one of my own ancient threads. Please disregard this recent post and let the thread again die a natural death, unless of course you have directions for a simple way to paste photos directly into a post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 Actually Neil, thanks for bringing this post to the top. I for one really miss Andy's posts about the minutae of speaker building on the Klipsch factory floor. His bit about glueing in the motor board is just one small example of what happened right (and wrong, sometimes) in the heyday of Klipsch US manufacturing. Where are you Andy? Hope to hear from you again someday soon, especially since I've been procuring so durn many cabinets from the 70's and 80's. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriven Posted June 5, 2005 Share Posted June 5, 2005 I also miss Andy's posts and hope he is doing well. DizRotus, It would appear that you figured out how to include a picture in the post! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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