etc6849 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I finally bought a second RT-12d (the triangular shaped one with two passive drivers and one active driver) as I saw one the other day on ebay. With this second RT-12d, I really feel my system sounds 100% better and it sounded great before! I'll admit that my room is less than ideal and is an odd shape. I also haven't installed any bass traps or sound treatment of any kind. I didn't do anything special to set them up either. I just ran the auto-eg on each sub (one at a time). Then I split the mono LFE out from my receiver (Onkyo TX-NR905) so that each sub could be driven. I also placed each sub on the back wall at opposite corners. I really don't believe how much better the system sounds as a whole. It sounds as good as $40,000+ systems I've heard in specialty shops, but at a fraction of the cost! Since two RT-12d subs sound 100% better, I wonder if 4 RT-12d subs sound 200% better? I'm really surprised that most places I've shopped try to sell you separate amplifiers and a preamp, but none have ever recommended two subs! For the money, audio separates seem like a huge waste for driving such efficient speakers. A second sub seems like a must have! In retrospect, I only wish I'd bought a second sub years ago! Details: 2 x RF-83 (bi-amped), 1 x RC-64, 2 x RS-62, 2 x RT-12d, Onkyo TX-NR905. Good website that discusses multiple subs: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/two-subs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Well now that you have a second sub, I do agree it makes a huge difference, even though you have efficient speakers and a powerhouse avr (I have an 805) try out an amp IT will also make a 100% difference. Give them babies some juice and you will see what they are really capable of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Congratulations on the two subs. It is amazing how much smoother the bass response is in the room. Two subs will get you the majority of the benefits of 4 subs, so enjoyment and let the music and movies play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmassey Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Oh great, now you got me wanting another one. I kind of wrestled with the idea that having two on opposite corners would be ideal. Not sure how much good the passives are doing right against the wall but having all walls effected by one passive each seems like a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 So you say back wall opposite corners. Do you mean both are behind you? That's how I read it. Oh great, now you got me wanting another one. I kind of wrestled with the idea that having two on opposite corners would be ideal. Not sure how much good the passives are doing right against the wall but having all walls effected by one passive each seems like a good idea.i bet that would sound good as long as you got the phase just right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akdave Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 +1! Thanks a lot! [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Yes, both subs are behind me, but in opposite corners. This is because my room width didn't allow them to be beside the RF-83's and my RF-83's are away from the wall a bit leaving little space for two subs. I also didn't have space in the mid section of the room due to the room's width. If you visit the link I posted, it gives some recommendations on the placement of two subs. Well worth the read. For what it's worth, I'm just floored by how much better things sound in my oddly shaped FROG. Even my wife said things sound much better. My system truely rivals any theater I've been in! In my opinion, the RT-12d's make great dual subs (especially for music) as they are highly accurate. Using passive radiators was a step in the right direction I think, but Klipsch must not have sold many as they discontinued them If anything, set an ebay alert for RT-12d. You can always repost them if you don't like having two! If you don't set email alerts up, you'll likely never find an RT-12d for sale as the supply seems very low because the owners love them so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted January 29, 2013 Author Share Posted January 29, 2013 Here's the link again: http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/get-good-bass/two-subs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Oh great, now you got me wanting another one. Now that the thought is in your, it won't go away. Let us know what you get, lol.[^o)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm running 4 rw-12d across the front of my 14x14(small) theater room. I have one wired left the other right and the last two lfe all set up through audessy. Room builds pressure, it's pretty impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I have one wired left the other right and the last two lfe all set up through audessy Are you using two of the subs mainly for LFE and the speaker level subs for music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I was thinking about using the left and right preouts, but how do you prevent the low frequencies from also going to your main speakers? I believe that allowing all frequencies on the preouts will require allowing all frequencies on the main speaker terminals as well. This would result in "double bass." Please correct me if this is not true for most Onkyo A/V receivers. I'm using a TX-NR905. I'm running 4 rw-12d across the front of my 14x14(small) theater room. I have one wired left the other right and the last two lfe all set up through audessy. Room builds pressure, it's pretty impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted January 30, 2013 Moderators Share Posted January 30, 2013 Why would you want to use the L&R preouts? Not ideal at all especially for HT since there is a dedicated LFE channel. If you are hooking up multiple subs, most subs have an RCA Out so that you can connect one sub to another. That or use a Y splitter from your sub out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 What you are saying sounds right. The only reason you would want to use L&R preout on the A/V receiver is if you wanted to use a band-pass filter on your mains speakers to something high like 120 Hz -maybe then having the subs on their own L and R would be better (but this is not possible on my receiver). However, it's hard to say as low frequency sound is unidirectional. I'm going to guess you couldn't hear the difference, but I haven't tried it. I set my mains to 40 Hz, sides to 120 Hz and center to 80 Hz. Then, I let the AVR manage everything and send it out the LFE channel. Using the RCA out is a good idea to save on cable. Does anyone know if the RT-12d will auto sense if you plug a cable into only the left (white) connector? The reason I ask if it doesn't, you would lose 3dB as you'd only be using one channel of the amplifier. I put y splitters on the sub's L&R inputs just in case. Why would you want to use the L&R preouts? Not ideal at all especially for HT since there is a dedicated LFE channel. If you are hooking up multiple subs, most subs have an RCA Out so that you can connect one sub to another. That or use a Y splitter from your sub out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 I'm running a marantz sr 7007. It has dual lfe out and then the front pre outs. These subs are on the front row with (6) kg 5.5s that add an additional (12) 10s to the equation. I played with lfe only but this setup seems to give the most impressive sound and movement of the room. I've ran audessy in every trial, the twin centers, fronts, and wides are all ran full range, the left and right subs are cut off at 120, and the lfe subs are running lfe+ LR. I've played with phases stacking positioning you name it. It was origionally ran on a marantz sr 7005 but i wasnt happy with the sub control, it was returned and replaced with a 6006. this messed up my video to the other room, luckily the 7007 came out before my 30 days to return the previous receiver was up and i switched to the 7007 and all was right with the world. the current setup offers incredible room movement when something explosive happens but on the other side of the coin when music is being played on the film track the bass blends well and doesn't over power. Ambient music seems completely natural when its being played by the wides while the center and front handle dialog and other aspects of the soundtrack. The room sounds a lot larger than it is. However when we have gatherings requiring music I set the room to multi ch stereo and turn it up. The exterior of the house rattles like a $500.00 car with a $5,000.00 system. On days that I just want to sit there and listen to music by myself ill put the room into pure direct and yet again it never disappoints. The L and R kgs have the crites crossover and titanium tweets and are just magic. I plan on doing sound treatment to the room next. Ill see if this changes anything. It's not an ideal room but its what I have to work with. I hate that the 7007 will not play all 11 channels at once, I plan in the near future to do some receiver shuffling in the house and replace this one with a new marantz av 8801 preamp and undecided for amps. I know placement of everything isn't ideal. Especially the left wide and left sub, audessy dealt with it . I plan on building risers for the wides when I do the sound treatment and darkening up the walls with some curtains Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted January 31, 2013 Author Share Posted January 31, 2013 Nice looking setup! So you have all 5.1 channels up front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Room is 9.1 although receiver will do width and height(11.1) but only 7 channels at a time depending on content. I Have (4) ca8tw doing surround and rear duty. They need some paint. Once I get a larger room will track down (4) more kg5.5s. To replace the ca's so i can put them outside. will also be replacing the 7007 with a marantz av 8801 to have true 11.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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