How far from a Klipsch type horn can I possibly get?

[Rudy81]

The SPUD performance didn't seem to change in the room considering I moved the mouths of the enclosures from the center of the room to opposite sides of the screen. Glad I didn't have to jump through hoops with that change.

The project is almost done and I am very pleased, and still surprised with how good this design works.

The center channel was no problem running from 70Hz on up to 750Hz so that my P. Audio driver could pick up the top end.

These open baffles are just unbelievable in performance within the driver's capabilities.

Long project, but I think it will have been well worth it.

[Arash]

wow! fantabulous!

is there any point in using a 8 incher instead of compression driver?

[Rudy81]

wow! fantabulous!

is there any point in using a 8 incher instead of compression driver?

One point is that you can cross over to the 8" driver at 150Hz in this horn. I'm crossing at 204Hz to ensure the horn has enough capability as the crossover rolls off. The other issue is that it is my impression that the closer you get to a single driver, the better off you will be. I have managed to have a single driver handle 204Hz to 20kHz, a very large portion of the spectrum. From 20-204Hz, I am using the DIY Orelo and the Klipsch RSW-15.

But, the most important part to me is that they sound very different than any compression driver I have ever heard. Since I first heard a set of Oris horns, although with AER drivers, I have been chasing that sound. I tried, as some of you are painfully aware, many Klipsch stock speakers, Khorn two way modifications, various 1" and 2" drivers etc (TAD, JBL, Faital Pro, P. Audio...). Nothing came close to the open and transparent sound of the Oris with an 8" driver. I am currently using an inexpensive driver, the Tang Band 1808, and am very pleased with the sound. (Not that expense is any sign of good performance....just that folks chase after the AER and Lowther drivers...and they are pricey.)

I finally got tired of looking for that experience and not finding it in my many driver and horn combinations. I had high hopes when I went to Hope to listen to Roy's Jub setup, but that wasn't it either. So, I finally just broke down and ordered a set from Bert. If you ever get a chance, listen to an Oris setup...it's just different, more open, transparent and has a huge soundstage when compared to the many compression driver/horn combinations I have owned and listened to. However, I think the Oris is suited for a sweet spot listening experience and cannot give you the type of broad coverage a K402 can achieve.

Bottom line, it is just personal preference. In my case, I have not heard a sound I liked better than the Oris 150. Since I was only using the DBB bass bins from 80-204Hz, I decided to try and build Bert's open baffle Orelo design. Last night, after setting everything up, I spent a few hours listening to the setup and really like what I am hearing. I'm so impressed of what an open baffle can do, I don't understand why more folks don't use that type of design. I am now beginning to understand the open baffle fanatics.

As an aside, I must say that the RSW-15s are working out perfectly to complement the Oris and Orelo. The RSW-15s run from 20-70Hz. The whole thing is really coming together.

[Arash]

very good you found the sound you were looking for.

for me, rightnow I'm waiting for my own Faital Pro HF-200s. till now (reading your last post) my perferance was using compression drivers because of the higher efficiency they offer, but if a full range in right horn will give better performance and ear-catching sound, so what I'm gonna replace my 2A3 SE with a 300B one or something higher in wattage, so what else an audiophile might want?

but I think I should go for Faital and try that in a JMLC horn, maybe some other years I go the way you went

[Rudy81]

The HF200s are outstanding IMHO. I had a pair of those until I got the Oris horns. Those were, by far, the best compression drivers I have owned. I think to get better performance you will have to go to a TAD driver and really drop some coin.

I suspect you are really going to like the JMLC horn and HF200 combination. I had my HF200s in a similar horn previously. That is as close as I had gotten to the sound I was chasing for a long time.

[Guest David H]

But, the most important part to me is that they sound very different than any compression driver I have ever heard. Since I first heard a set of Oris horns, although with AER drivers, I have been chasing that sound. I tried, as some of you are painfully aware, many Klipsch stock speakers, Khorn two way modifications, various 1" and 2" drivers etc (TAD, JBL, Faital Pro, P. Audio...). Nothing came close to the open and transparent sound

Rudy, I too have been mesmerized by the charm of the waveguide coupled to an 8 inch driver. I have not mated mine to an open baffle, but the sound and performance is top notch.

Dave

[Rudy81]

Dave,

It might interest you to know that several Oris owners have found that keeping the back plug off the Oris chamber opens up the sound with no detrimental effect on performance. When I first installed mine, I was aware of the discussion on this topic and tried listening with and without the chamber plug. It definitely sounds more open and 'airy' with the back plug off.

I'm rapidly becoming an open baffle convert for home audio. I am still looking into the science and potential drawbacks of the OB system. But, from personal experience, I can say it sounds just outstanding.

Yesterday I spent some time evaluating the performance of the entire HT with the new OB bass waveguides. I watched mostly concert BD discs to evaluate musicality. Toto, Joe Bonamassa, Eric Clapton, Journey and a few others. I was mostly interested in the drum performance in the front 3 channels.

It was just outstanding and I walked away with a big smile on my face. I seriously doubt my bass bins will be going back into the room, although I'm going to give it a few weeks of living with the system.

I am currently looking into some sort of rig to test different 'wing' setup on an OB to see if I can get the same response with a slightly smaller footprint. I started looking at the Quasar MKII design with is a large plain OB, but am aware of the bass limitations on that, so it needs some sort of waveguide to get down to where I need.

[Johnny's Jill]

I like it.

I think you may be ok a bit smaller as open baffle speakers are not usually that large.

Craig

[Rudy81]

I like it.

I think you may be ok a bit smaller as open baffle speakers are not usually that large.

Craig

I am hoping I can create a smaller footprint and keep the same LF performance. Normally, OB builds use drivers with a much higher Qts than the Kappalite 3015LF in order to achieve the LF performance. The wings are what is providing a boost in the LF based on my testing of just the baffle and the baffle with the wings. Since I already have the drivers, and like them, I am hoping to be able to reduce the size of the wings and see if I can keep the performance.

Otherwise, I will have to look at going with some Eminenc Alpha 15s with a high Qts. They certainly are cheaper than my Kappalites! I can buy six Alpha's for the price of two Kappalites.

[Guest David H]

I am hoping I can create a smaller footprint and keep the same LF performance. Normally, OB builds use drivers with a much higher Qts than the Kappalite 3015LF in order to achieve the LF performance. The wings are what is providing a boost in the LF based on my testing of just the baffle and the baffle with the wings. Since I already have the drivers, and like them, I am hoping to be able to reduce the size of the wings and see if I can keep the performance.

If you decide to make smaller wings, I think you will be able to keep your bass response by extending vertical extensions to the floor from your hf horn shelf. This will basically give you a u-baffle with a waveguide. Really cool.[Y]

Because you are open baffle, I an not sure the waveguide is the major factor limiting the lf response.

Dave

[Rudy81]

Dave,

Exactly where I was going with the project! I have been reading on the effects of H and U OB designs on LF response. I put that top shelf on the baffle to support the Oris pressure chamber....but some additional side panels and a small waveguide might do the tric.

Thank you for the suggestions. I plan on using my now surplus center (MDF) channel as the test baffle so as not to cut up any more BB.

As soon as I finish some work I'm heading out to the shop for some cutting![Y]

[moray james]

Rudy here is an idea. Build a bass which the flaired OB can sit in that you then fill up with sand. This will provide a no gap coupling of the baffle to the floor and some energy loss (damping) to the bottpm edg of the baffle. Just a thought and a fussy one at that. Prehaps a snake like sand bag to surround the bottom of the baffle (front and back) would be easier and cleaner and make for fast comparrisons. Best regards Moray James.

[Rudy81]

Rudy here is an idea. Build a bass which the flaired OB can sit in that you then fill up with sand. This will provide a no gap coupling of the baffle to the floor and some energy loss (damping) to the bottpm edg of the baffle. Just a thought and a fussy one at that. Prehaps a snake like sand bag to surround the bottom of the baffle (front and back) would be easier and cleaner and make for fast comparrisons. Best regards Moray James.

Keep those ideas coming. I currently have the baffle and wings mass coupled to the floor with spikes. Interestingly, it was Bert who suggested that the entire thing be lifted off the floor about 2"...had something to do with the sound.

I am going to create a modified H open baffle, where the front part of the H is curved by the wings. The back will be rectangular. I might also try a curved surface on both sides of the baffle. Just different things to try.

[moray james]

well the long tubular sand bag idea would damp the horn profile and make it air tight to the ground and allow you to leave it up on spikes. Would work best with a tube of sand on both the front and back side of the horn profile from a damping point of view. I will watch and look forward to seeing how this works out. This has been and continues to be a very interesting project which I thhink is of interest to many. Best regards Moray James.

[Rudy81]

Dave,

Here is the comparison of the baffle alone and one with the wings installed. It certainly seems to benefit from some type of loading with the wings. The various similar lines are from varying throat sizes I tried....didn't seem to make much of a difference.

[Guest David H]

Nice, looks like you picked up 3+db up to 400hz, better than I would have expected.

Dave

[DrWho]

Dave,

Here is the comparison of the baffle alone and one with the wings installed. It certainly seems to benefit from some type of loading with the wings. The various similar lines are from varying throat sizes I tried....didn't seem to make much of a difference.

I think you'd see more difference in the polars actually...

[Rudy81]

Dr. Who, I'm sure you are correct. At the moment, I have no way of measuring such things so I can only go with what I hear and can measure.

[Rudy81]

Not being one to leave things alone, I started wondering if the open baffle/wing concept would still hold if I made the wings smaller...thus taking up less real estate. So I made a smaller set of wings, about half the size in depth from the original and used the old baffle from my previous center speaker. This baffle did not have the same dimensions as the original ones I made, so I had to add sides to it to make it as wise. For some reason, the baffle alone does not perform the same as the originals above 500Hz. Not sure why that is, but I started by comparing the original and new 'test' baffle to see if the readings were at least close. For the 70-300Hz that I'm interested in, the baffles performed similarly.

I also wanted to try the U and H OB configurations to see how they compared with the wings.

It was a very windy day today, so taking the readings was a bit of a challenge and there are some small anomalies due to wind gusts.

Here is the comparison between the new test baffle and the original.

[Rudy81]

The comparison between a U, H and 'winged' open baffle is an interesting comparison and seems to indicate that the wings 'load' the woofers better than any of the other standard OB configurations.

The other issue that cropped up is a nasty dip around 500Hz for the H configuration that I could not get rid of. Every time I ran a sweep in that configuration, that dip showed up....interesting.

It seems a setup with the wings are the way to go.