ChrisK Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Yesterday I was listening to my tuner and noticed something that puzzled me. The jazz station (KLON Long Beach, CA) was playing some quartet music. When it was time for the bass run it seemed as though some notes were more audible than others. The sound was strong on lower notes, then seemed to weaken as the player went up the scale, to a point again farther up the scale where the sound seemed to get stronger again. Was I hearing "boom" on the lower notes? Is this some sort of "hole" in my system. What gives? Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, Chris PS You can check my system by clicking the link below. ------------------ http://cgi.AudioAsylum.com/systems/2235.html This message has been edited by cjk1026 on 06-27-2002 at 10:45 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 The real test would be to examine the same recording on your system with a quality digital or analog source. There are too many variables, without knowing quite a few more details about the broadcasting source (broadcasting equipment, quality of the broadcast signal to your receiver, whether the station employs any signal limiting devices, etc.), to know whether or not your equipment is an issue. ------------------ Mike - Livonia, MI Klipsch RF-3 L/R Klipsch RC-3 Center Klipsch RB-5 rears HSU Research VF-2 Sub Marantz SR-19EX receiver Marantz MM-9000 Amp NAD T550 DVD Adcom GCD 700 CD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Up, sounds like you need a cable upgrade. I would recommend a full Kimber Select setup, a mere $100,000 for everything. A small price to pay for quality... ANYWAY! I would not trust a tuner (not the tuner itself, but the transmission quality) to "hear" a system. Either download an MP3 of the song or buy a/the CD with the song on it. That would shep some more light on the mystery. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 An MP3??? The MP3 is a sonic disaster with the good uncompressed FM signal coming in #1 99.999% of the time (with a good source). The dreaded MP3 is the king of convenience but horror in sound. I once tried to listen to some MP3s on my main system and could not believe just how bad they sounded. Then I shook my head when I realized that a whole generation was walking away thinking this was "IT" With the general population, the Kings of Convenience wins yet again (btw, the Kings of Convenience album "Quiet is the NEW Loud" is one of the best recorded pieces of vinyl I have heard this year). kh Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 06-27-2002 at 02:42 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 It sounds from your post as if this is the first time you've noticed this effect? If you play some CD's or records that have a very similar bass line, you'll either hear something very similar to what you noticed on the broadcast, or you won't. If you notice the same thing, but had simply not caught it before: this is perfectly normal. Any room of rational size (ie, smaller than Grand Central Station) is going to interact with the bass soundwaves. The interaction of the room and the sound will result in there being areas in the room where the various reflections overlap in a way that reinforces the sound, making it louder, and in other areas having overlaps that cancel, making the sound much lower or possibly cancelling it altogether. The locations where these overlaps occur varies with the frequency. So sitting in your couch, you might be a particular location where, say, 50 Hz signals sound louder than they're supposed to, but 67 Hz signals sound much lower than they ought to. You can easily hear this - put on a CD with a section with some strong low frequency content and set it on repeat, and walk around the room. You'll be amazed at how much fluctuation you hear in the volume level of that bass frequency as you stroll around the room. Only fix - try changing the position of the speakers or the listening position so that the unavoidable room / bass interactions are as unbothersome as possible at the listening position, or experiment with room treatments like Tube Traps and such. If you don't notice this effect, or it was much more pronounced on the broadcast than it is with records or CD player: I have no idea - maybe a poor recording they were playing? Ray ------------------ Music is art Audio is engineering Ray's Music System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Mobile, I would have to agree with you that for the most part MP3's suck but usually the reason they suck is the person that recorded them and the PC there played on or more specific the sound card there played on. MP3's recorded at a high bit rate and with a top notch soundcard can easily whip the sh!t out of most mid grade CD players without a high dollar Dac. You always right off anything you have a bad expereince with before you thoroughly investigate the why's and hows. Craig ------------------ HH Scott 299 Amp HH Scott LT-110B Tuner HH Scott P-87 Turn Table JVC JL-F50 Turn Table Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive 1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers KSW-15 Subs>c> This message has been edited by NOS440 on 06-27-2002 at 04:12 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 The MP3 uses a compression scheme that is not anywhere near the sonics of even 44k digital. In fact, it has been a big battle with some of the audio industry with many thinking it will be have a negative affect with some going to more heavily compressed digital in archives. I am not just talking from one experience here nor am I talking about computer sound cards or the person doing the recording. I am actually referring to the compression used via the MP3. I recorded some MP3s to CD and listened on my Rega to sample. In addition, I have friends in the indie music scene who have loads of MP3. I have heard all sorts of versions. You are right, however, in that some are much worse than others. Still, throw your best MP3 on your main system and compare and you will hear the difference if your system is high resolution. It is not hard to hear. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 27, 2002 Author Share Posted June 27, 2002 Ray, Thanks for the tip. And I apologize for making it appear in my post that I only noticed this bass situation while using my tuner. I've also noticed it with my tt and cdp. Anyway, after receiving a record I had ordered (LA 4, "Pavane Pour Une Infante Defunte", Nautilus pressing), I tried your suggestion. Sure enough, you were right. Bass response does change substantially as I change location. Now I know where to be when I want to best hear ol' Ray Brown do his thing. BTW, this album is a fantastic recording. Regards, Chris ------------------ click below to see my AA system listing http://cgi.AudioAsylum.com/systems/2235.html This message has been edited by cjk1026 on 06-27-2002 at 05:46 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 A music CD is 1411 Kb/s. A MP3 is from 32-320 Kb/s. A good MP3 will sould CLOSE (yes, a good CD is better) to a OK CD. I have ripped plenty of Autechre and while the CD sounds better, the MP3 is more than enough for a portable MP3 player, car stereo, computer speakers, or even a sub $300 pr. of speakers. MP3's lose it in techno with little bass and the "crispness" gets a little muffled. Also, I don't know exactly what it is, but CD's seem to have more presence (louder, bolder, more exciting) than MP3's. It could be processing. Also, a CD is $15, a MP3 is free. The music I REALLY like, CD's. ------------------ Receiver: Sony STR-DE675 CD player: Sony CDP-CX300 Turntable: Technics SL-J3 with Audio-Technica TR485U Speakers: JBL HLS-610 Subwoofer: JBL 4648A-8 Sub amp: Parts Express 180 watt Center/surrounds: Teac 3-way bookshelfs Yes, it sucks, but better to come. KLIPSCH soon! My computer is better than my stereo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Rat Boy get some Klipsch speakers and you will hear what an Mpeg really sounds like. LOL ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 I still say there not near as bad as all of you seem to think !! You all have to remember that most of us aren't willing to drop 1 to 2K on a high dollar CD player to get a Holly grail sound out of CD's that your talking about. A top quality Soundcard playing MP3's sent to my 299b with my Heresy's doesn't sound any different than my Sony ES CD player. Now LP's sound way better. Again I realize that Sony doesn't make the greatest decks but I'm not willing to spend a grand for a CD player. I would rather spin Vinyl for serious listening. For casual listening MP3's on my PC with my Phillips sound card sound great. Its all about who encodes them with what DLL file and at what bit rate and with what CD/DVD drive as to how they turn out. Just like CD's depend on who mixed them, what CD player used and of coarse the AMP and speakers. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 This Thread is about bass and the bass from MP3 is pathetic. End of story. Quit Rationalizing and get some Real Quality Equipment. ------------------ Go Forth and Hump the World Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 "...Again I realize that Sony doesn't make the greatest decks..." They do now. With the bizarre compression scheme employed by MP3 it does seem hard to believe it could sound anything but mediocre at best. I don't know how old your Sony is -- but I guess it's not beyond the realm of possiblity that well done MP3 might keep pace with the sound of somewhat older DAC's. Which ES do you have Craig? ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 cjk1026, Do you have the speakers mounted on stands .. off the floor? If so, frequencies for which the distance between the woofer center and the floor are about 1/4 wavelength, may be canceling as the direct bass mixes with the reflected, inverted bass. I've only read about the effect, never tried it. I keep woofers firmly planted on the floor. You probably do too. Just a thought. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 I think its ca7es but I also have a sony DVPNS700P DVD drive and again I say with the technic I use for casual listening MP3's are just as good as CD's. As far as that goes come listen to my Promedia's on my PC no Bass Yea right my MP3's have tons of strong bass !! I still say its the DLL file and ripper/encoder used to achieve descent sound. Again let me state I use LP's for serious listening and that will blow away anything short of Top of the line CD players. So to me the purchase of top dollar CD rig would be pointless. I'm not agueing that CDs have the potential to sound better than MP3's. I'm just saying MP3's aren't near as bad as you all are betraying them if done right Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 27, 2002 Share Posted June 27, 2002 Well Craig, the ears don't lie -- so I accept what you are saying. ------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Metal drivers make metal music shinef>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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