jvaughan Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 My room is 15x20x8 and used strictly for home theater. Do you guys see any benefit at all in using any of the towers over the RB81's as left and right mains. Everything crossed @ 80hrz and set to small. What I am trying to decide is if a tower speaker is even needed for movies when using a sub. System: Rythmik sub Yamaha Aventage RXA 3000 RC62 II RB81ii RB35's (surrounds) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 You will get different answers to this question. Many people runn all towers, all bookshef speakers or a mixture. Also, welcome to the forum. A lot of folks on this forum like bigggggg speakers, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 You will get different answers to this question. Many people runn all towers, all bookshef speakers or a mixture. Also, welcome to the forum. A lot of folks on this forum like bigggggg speakers, lol. Thank you for the welcome derrickdj1. These are the first Klipsch speakers I have owned and they are an entirely different beast than I am used to. What I am wanting is what is needed for home theater and that only. If you are running a sub and your speakers are crossed over at 80 hrz do you really gain anything by the extra drivers in tower speakers? I used to come from the bigger is better camp when it came to mains but if you are crossing them at 80hrz what benefit are the bass drivers in a tower? For music full range, yes I get that but for movies I am trying to decide if I will get much if anything from upgrading to towers. My room is bigger so that's my dilemma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) Well 80hz is not the cut off to all bass. The rf62ii xover at say 1500hz. The lower drivers are handling 80-1500hz. Imo bigger still has an impact on some of that. The 81 are pretty big though and might be close to the rf62ii. I don't think you would get much with that move for ht. To upgrade I would jump to the rf82ii or even the 7s for an upgrade Edited January 2, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 Well 80hz is not the cut off to all bass. The rf62ii xover at say 1500hz. The lower drivers are handling 80-1500hz. Imo bigger still has an impact on some of that. The 81 are pretty big though and might be close to the rf62ii. I don't think you would get much with that move for ht. To upgrade I would jump to the rf82ii or even the 7s for an upgrade God your killing me! Makes sense though. I just didn't think the left and right mains had that much of an impact as the center unless your room is massive in size....then you have jumped to the rc64 which I don't think I need. I use an sms-1 to calibrate the sub and manually calibrate the rest of the system with an spl meter. We are getting somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 (edited) I run everything set to small and just use the RF 7's and RC 64 as satellite speakers and let the subs handle the bass. MCACC has even picked a xo of 100 Hz when my system was in a different room. I now use 80 Hz but, I can't tell a difference. Edited January 2, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 My room is 15x20x8 and used strictly for home theater. Do you guys see any benefit at all in using any of the towers over the RB81's as left and right mains. Everything crossed @ 80hrz and set to small. What I am trying to decide is if a tower speaker is even needed for movies when using a sub. System: Rythmik sub Yamaha Aventage RXA 3000 RC62 II RB81ii RB35's (surrounds) IMO no. Towers are not "needed" if bookshelfs/subwoofer combo is blended well. Take for example the Klipsch THX Ultra series of speakers, no tower in that setup. Of course the "bookshelves" are larger than your typical ones but lower frequency extension is really not any better. I used a pair of RB-35's with the RC-62 in a 6000 ft3 room for a couple of weeks and it sounded okay. The weak link in my setup was not the RB-35's it was clearly my RW-10d subwoofer. If I had then the subs that I have now, the RF-63's may not have even been on my radar and I might still be using the RB-35's. With all that said, I would only go back to the RB's for financial reasons. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 For Home Theater use I also agree with Willand. I used RB81iis as height speakers for a while and they are definitely nice sized bookshelves and should be just fine in your setup xo at 80hz you wont loose to much from using rf-62iis. I really like the placement and flexibility of using the bookshelves in your suggestion. If you are a music lover and plan to do a lot of 2 channel listening by far go with some tower speakers. Even if you plan to mix some movies and music go with the towers. I use the THX ultra 2 system in my theater and love the sound from the THX KL-650 bookshelves but they are expensive. IMO they have an even better sound than my RF-83 system but strictly for movies. I wouldn’t use the system for music though it just isn’t made for it. Either way you will have a nice system. Good luck and welcome to the forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 2, 2014 Author Share Posted January 2, 2014 O.k. thanks guys, that about sums up my thoughts as well. I don't think I would gain anything by using towers either. Thanks for your time and I did do a search on this first but came up with nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajoker2c Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 I just didn't think the left and right mains had that much of an impact as the center unless your room is massive in size....then you have jumped to the rc64 which I don't think I need. You may not "need" the rc-64, but after you heard it you'd "want " it !! My rb81's are keeping up nicely with my rc64 after swapping out my rf-35's (82 iv's older version) until I find RF63 or 83's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) O.k. thanks guys, that about sums up my thoughts as well. I don't think I would gain anything by using towers either. Thanks for your time and I did do a search on this first but came up with nothing. Well in theory it would be close. But most that upgrade to towers really notice a big upgrade vs RB speakers. You have rb-81 though and those are kind of in-between a RB and RF. You would need to go really big imo. The top RF and RC line all have upgraded horns that imo blow away the standard 1" thats in all the other reference speakers. Couple that with a bigger more effortless sound and you have a really nice upgrade. But this would cost about a grand or more used for the 63/64 combo and close to 2k for the 83/64 combo and even more for the rf-7ii/64ii. So it might not be worth the upgrade to start over. After all you have great speakers already Edited January 3, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Yeah but its that diminishing point of return that has me worried. I may upgrade to towers and the rc64 down the road. Concerning the center channel for movies, yeah bigger is better beings that's where its at for movies is the center. Build around the biggest center unless your room is really small. I have run the YPAO on my Yamaha and it at first set the center to 200hrz small the left and right mains at 180 hrz small and the rb35s to large. I have played movies and music for a couple of weeks on the system and redid the auto cal. and finally got the front mains to read at 80hrz small and the center at 160hrz small. I have never had a center or a bookshelf speaker set to anything above 80hrz small running auto cal. through the Yamaha. that is why I was wondering about the larger tower over the rb81's and maybe a bigger center than what I have. Been going over this with a buddy of mine that is familiar with klipsch and we cant figure it out. That is why I am pecking away at you guys one issue at a time. And yes it gets better. Got some problems and have no answers. Yes I do appreciate the feed back from you guys. I have owned some very costly gear in my time so some of these questions seem like newb questions but these are for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Or another angle is the rc64 in my case over going with towers for more impact and slam as that is what I feel I am missing form current setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) You will get different answers to this question. Many people runn all towers, all bookshef speakers or a mixture. Also, welcome to the forum. A lot of folks on this forum like bigggggg speakers, lol. Thank you for the welcome derrickdj1. These are the first Klipsch speakers I have owned and they are an entirely different beast than I am used to. What I am wanting is what is needed for home theater and that only. If you are running a sub and your speakers are crossed over at 80 hrz do you really gain anything by the extra drivers in tower speakers? I used to come from the bigger is better camp when it came to mains but if you are crossing them at 80hrz what benefit are the bass drivers in a tower? For music full range, yes I get that but for movies I am trying to decide if I will get much if anything from upgrading to towers. My room is bigger so that's my dilemma. Yes, running the large RF 7's set to small with a sub allow a 3-6 db improvement in midrange performance. The RF 7 speaker cones don't have to produce the low bass frequencies. This result in less cone movement, which equals less distortion. Also running the speakers set to small minimizes phase issues and cancellation problems between the mains and the subs. The redirecting of the bass to the subwoofer also increase the system overhead and power management potential. This is especially significant if using an avr with lower wattage What center do you have? There is no way around not having a good center speaker for HT. The RC 62 should be all you need if you are using the bookshelf speakers. Demo some HT and see if you are really missing something. The big impact speaker for HT is the subwoofers and not tower speakers. Setup is the key. This will help get you the soundstage that you are looking for. Getting the mains more than 8 ft apart for me made the soundstage wide/larger and using front height speakers fill the top of the theater area. The front stage is a wall of sound. Having more headroom is paramount when using smaller, less efficient speaker. It is not ususal to see surround speakers to need much more power to reach reference level than the large towers. Put up your signature then it will be easy for other to see what you have and make recommendations. Edited January 3, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 If you add rf7s into the mix that's a different story from rf62iis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 3, 2014 Author Share Posted January 3, 2014 Now I am feeling challenged. How do I add a sig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 Under my account/my profile you can add your signature Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 You will get different answers to this question. Many people runn all towers, all bookshef speakers or a mixture. Also, welcome to the forum. A lot of folks on this forum like bigggggg speakers, lol. Thank you for the welcome derrickdj1. These are the first Klipsch speakers I have owned and they are an entirely different beast than I am used to. What I am wanting is what is needed for home theater and that only. If you are running a sub and your speakers are crossed over at 80 hrz do you really gain anything by the extra drivers in tower speakers? I used to come from the bigger is better camp when it came to mains but if you are crossing them at 80hrz what benefit are the bass drivers in a tower? For music full range, yes I get that but for movies I am trying to decide if I will get much if anything from upgrading to towers. My room is bigger so that's my dilemma. Yes, running the large RF 7's set to small with a sub allow a 3-6 db improvement in midrange performance. The RF 7 speaker cones don't have to produce the low bass frequencies. This result in less cone movement, which equals less distortion. Also running the speakers set to small minimizes phase issues and cancellation problems between the mains and the subs. The redirecting of the bass to the subwoofer also increase the system overhead and power management potential. This is especially significant if using an avr with lower wattage What center do you have? There is no way around not having a good center speaker for HT. The RC 62 should be all you need if you are using the bookshelf speakers. Demo some HT and see if you are really missing something. The big impact speaker for HT is the subwoofers and not tower speakers. Setup is the key. This will help get you the soundstage that you are looking for. Getting the mains more than 8 ft apart for me made the soundstage wide/larger and using front height speakers fill the top of the theater area. The front stage is a wall of sound. Having more headroom is paramount when using smaller, less efficient speaker. It is not ususal to see surround speakers to need much more power to reach reference level than the large towers. Put up your signature then it will be easy for other to see what you have and make recommendations. So I would gain in output and clarity by running towers crossed at 80hrz versus my current setup with the RB81's? If that is the case then maybe the rf 62 would be the way to go with my larger room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) You will get different answers to this question. Many people runn all towers, all bookshef speakers or a mixture. Also, welcome to the forum. A lot of folks on this forum like bigggggg speakers, lol. Thank you for the welcome derrickdj1. These are the first Klipsch speakers I have owned and they are an entirely different beast than I am used to. What I am wanting is what is needed for home theater and that only. If you are running a sub and your speakers are crossed over at 80 hrz do you really gain anything by the extra drivers in tower speakers? I used to come from the bigger is better camp when it came to mains but if you are crossing them at 80hrz what benefit are the bass drivers in a tower? For music full range, yes I get that but for movies I am trying to decide if I will get much if anything from upgrading to towers. My room is bigger so that's my dilemma. Yes, running the large RF 7's set to small with a sub allow a 3-6 db improvement in midrange performance. The RF 7 speaker cones don't have to produce the low bass frequencies. This result in less cone movement, which equals less distortion. Also running the speakers set to small minimizes phase issues and cancellation problems between the mains and the subs. The redirecting of the bass to the subwoofer also increase the system overhead and power management potential. This is especially significant if using an avr with lower wattage What center do you have? There is no way around not having a good center speaker for HT. The RC 62 should be all you need if you are using the bookshelf speakers. Demo some HT and see if you are really missing something. The big impact speaker for HT is the subwoofers and not tower speakers. Setup is the key. This will help get you the soundstage that you are looking for. Getting the mains more than 8 ft apart for me made the soundstage wide/larger and using front height speakers fill the top of the theater area. The front stage is a wall of sound. Having more headroom is paramount when using smaller, less efficient speaker. It is not ususal to see surround speakers to need much more power to reach reference level than the large towers. Put up your signature then it will be easy for other to see what you have and make recommendations. So I would gain in output and clarity by running towers crossed at 80hrz versus my current setup with the RB81's? If that is the case then maybe the rf 62 would be the way to go with my larger room. I don't think you would gain much going from the rb81 to the rf62. I have mixed feelings about setting my rf-7ii to small. I understand all the advantages to cross them over set to small. But heres the problem for me. It sounds better with them set as large. The 7s sound better and my subs sound better driving just the lfe (and some from sides and rears). I see very little advantage to run them large but i can't ignore that it sounds better. I have tried a bunch of different set ups. And they all sound really good. But so far large on the fronts in my system sounds the best. Edited January 4, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvaughan Posted January 4, 2014 Author Share Posted January 4, 2014 The issue or what could be a non issue is that when I use the spl meter with or without the amp in the food chain it reads at about 78db all gains set null. Couch is about 7 to 8 ft back from mains and center. I thought this would read in the 80's for sure even without the amp in-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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