Kris K Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 I am looking at buying a tube preamp to compliment my Bryston 4Bst amplifier and KLF30's. My equipment is in a enclosed audio cabinet with my left driver (speaker) no farther than 1 foot away. At times I loosen the tie, grab a beer and let the volume take me to front stage. In trying to research the tube experience, I came to a article concerning tube microphonics,and from what I read this is feedback back into the tubes from outside sources? Is this true? Is this something that I should be very aware of? Anyone had such problems ? I have retired the turntable to the closet and have bought large amounts of small silver discs so there cant be any feedback from a cartridge. My family room being very large is divided by a fireplace and I am very limited (no choice) as to where the equipment can located. Should I hesitate at buying tubed and go with SS..... Thanks, Kris This message has been edited by Kris K on 07-13-2002 at 11:35 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 Sorry , topic should have said "question for Mobile Homeless".......I applogize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 Lordy Kris with a K! No, this is usually not much of a problem but more depends on the quality and type of tube. With a good stand or anything reasonably isolated as it should be for SS or tube, you will not have that much of a problem. As I said, a tube preamp is the way to go with the Bryston 4BST and I have listened to this amp quite a few times. I always preferred it with a tube preamp. I laid out a GREAT rec for you with a picture and everything in your other post. It was the Cary SLP-98 line stage on Audiogon right now. Did you write the guy? He has PERFECT feedback from other buyers and sellers and all the boxes and manual. It seems like a good deal to me and will elevate your system up another level. I think this is a good option. Why are you still leary? http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?preatube&1031534595&class&3&4& Does your rack really vibrate excessively? Place your hand on the preamp shelf and see how bad it is with volume. My right Cornwall is actually quite close to my rack as well. I have some problem with the Rega at VERY VERY high volume..but not that preamp. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-13-2002 at 11:43 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kris K Posted July 13, 2002 Author Share Posted July 13, 2002 Mobile Homeless, thanks for your thoughts and input. I am looking at a Audible Illusions Modulus 3A. Great write ups ......what do you think? Thanks, Kris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 The Cary SLP-98 will wipe out the AI-3a unless you want a great phono stage. All the great reviews for the Audible Illusions 3a are in in relation to the phono, something that I am not sure is your main focus. When you said your TT was in the closet, did you mean you still use it? The line stage for the Audible Illusions is actually nothing too special. Personally, I would opt for the SLP-98 for a variety of reasons. Are you going to be phono based? kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 I read that the Modulus 3A is very hard on tubes. Gobble, gobble, $$$$ Now Kelly, how come he gets the Cary and I'm stuck with the AE-3? Man, I feel cheatedf> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-14-2002 at 12:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Hell, the both have their good qualities and I do believe the upgraded DJH version of the AE-3 preamp is a lot better than the stock unit, something I might actually have down here at the same time as the Basie (and perhaps the Joplin). I dont think you should feel too put out, heh... Imagine what it would sound like with a stepped attenuator! There's always dreaming... kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-15-2002 at 05:42 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 That Cary on Audiogon looks a little different than your picture. Your picture has the tubes for the phone section I think. DACT? You probably think I'm a sucker now, and will do whatever you tease me withf>Diycable.com has the DACT for $109. Are those a pain to put in?f> I will tell you this. I am at the point that if my Audio Electronics Supply stuff drives the DQ's -- I will probably order the Joplin. BTW - f> looky here f> ------------------ Deanf>s> Klipsch RF7s - AE-25 DJH - AE-3 DJH - Sony 9000ES f>s> This message has been edited by deang on 07-14-2002 at 01:26 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Hi Kris, I would avoid anything with 6dj8/6922,which most of the time tend to sound agressive.I have owned few ARC preamps(SP8,LS1)and have listend to the modulus as well,they were more hifi than musical and I don't think that they will match your Bryston.I recommend either a Conrad-Johnson or Cary,or look for a VTL Ultimate,which is the best preamp I have ever heared and can be found used for 800-1200$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Hey Dean, you actually read my posts? heh... In the post I introduced this preamp, I went through all this. Remember? Yeah, yeah, I realize that most dont read post over a few paragraphs and I always tend to write too much. As for the DACT, I believe they are $136. The $109 price is only if you order it with a Consonance kit. Here is thy link < [A HREF="http://www.diycable.com/DACT.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.diycable.com/DACT.htm ]. There are actually other attenuator options but this is one of the least expensive. I have the TKD in my Cary but the damn thing is $$$$. It's very good though. The stepped attenuator is a big upgrade from a typical volume pot with better transparency, tracking, separation, etc. AGain, the better your whole system, however, the more you can hear these type changes. Not sure of the room in the AE-3. Guy's commenct concerning 6922 based preamps is correct in my view as well although there have been ok versions of 6922/6DJ8 preamps, I have not liked them as much either. Sadly, the Audio Research SP-6 and SP-8 are two of the BETTER ones from the Audio Research stable. I tend to find ALL the Audio Research models to exhibit a HIFI sound but could live with the SP-6/SP-8 over most of the others as at least they have an ok phono stage. The SP-9 is detail galore and a glare master! To be honest, Audio Research is one of my least favorite tube amp companies as they have seemingly always stressed HIFI over music. Ironically enough, I owned a VTL Deluxe and then a VTL Ultimate years ago but only for a short while as there were problems. When working, it was indeed one of my fav preamps as well but you rarely see them used and they can be finicky. They were funky looking affairs that were almost totally dual mono down to two sep power cords (shared volume). The Ultimate was a BIG upgrade from the Deluxe. But it does NOT use 6SN7 (12AU7/12AT7 in line stage). The Ultimate has a king hell phono stage with a handful of 12AX7. But it was in the shop three out of the 6 months I was around it. A bit of interesting history? Cary's Dennis Had started his later audio career after getting a load of VTL stuff and modifying it and fixing it (a lot more fixing if youknowhatimsayin). I lived in Chapel Hill, NC relatively near Tom Hoffman's Advanced Audio shop with VTL tube components. So did ole Dennis. But back on track, Guy is right about the VTL Ultimate except like a lot of VTL stuff, is hit or miss in reliability. I will say that once you get a good one, stick with it! I think the Cary preamps are more open than the Conrad Johnson but both are musical. I would chose the Cary personally between these two makes. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-14-2002 at 06:59 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 I own the VTL Ultimate and have upgraded it with foil caps and some black gates and an Alps volume control. It is a wonderfull preamp(better than CJ evolution 20se that I previously owned).This is a very reliable preamp and one of the early examples,which use 12ax7's & 12at7's in the line stage instead of 12au7+12at7. The later units with the 12au7 were built by Luke manley after his father left VTL and are considered les reliable(like all other VTL stuff that were built by Luke).The phono stage is great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Perhaps I was mistaken concerning the line stage tubes but I believe the unit I had was long before Luke took over at VTL. They did have some reliability problems way back in the late 80s. I do agree that the Ultimate was a great preamp, although I havent heard one in years. I actually looked around my place for the orginal brochure, reviews, and manual which I still have, to post a pic but couldnt find it. I dont think there are any shots of the beast online. Guy you would REALLY get a BIG upgrade considering that piece and the surrounding parts you supplied with an excellent stepped attenuator which is a major step up from the Black Beauty ALPS or any ALPS for that matter. I was amazed at the upgrade over the Noble pot I had in my Cary. What is the rest of your system? I think you may have mentioned it. kh This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-14-2002 at 10:34 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Rest of my system: Burmester 939 cd player. Technics sp10 mk2 turntable with obsidian/SME IV/EMT TSD15 or VDH Frog. Marantz 10b tuner. Marantz model 2 Monoblocks. Khorns with ALK. Interconnects VDH MC-gold. Speaker cable OCOS. I am about to build type A crossover to compare with the ALK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 Kris, If you do decide on a Conrad-Johnson preamp,please avoid early units like pv1,2,3,5 and premier 2.They are musical but to colored for my taste(I've owned the pv5 which was better than the premier 2)and try the pv10,11,12 which sound cleaner and more natural. mobile homeless, I've just added the DACT attenuator for my crossover parts order at Audiocom UK. I'll keep you posted on that one. I'll also love to have a copy of the original manual,reviews etc.So if you manage to find them,I'll be more than happy to buy a copy from you. Thanks & regards Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted July 14, 2002 Share Posted July 14, 2002 quote: Originally posted by guy landau: Kris, If you do decide on a Conrad-Johnson preamp,please avoid early units like pv1,2,3,5 and premier 2.They are musical but to colored for my taste(I've owned the pv5 which was better than the premier 2)and try the pv10,11,12 which sound cleaner and more natural. Guy Auditioned the PV10B thought it was good. But opted for the CJ 14L. Both were musical, but the PV14L seemed to place me within the music, better sounstaging and clarity too. Very noticeable improvements in the aforemention areas after replacing the OEM Philips 6C4's with 60's NOS Covairs by Westinghouse. If looking at CJ preamps, give the 14L consideration too. http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/current-products.html Wes ------------------ KLIPSCH IS MUSICf> My Systems f>s>c> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Kris, I think that a PV14L is safe buy and CJ have an excellent reputation for reliability. Do anoid the Premier 16,17,since the circuit has few 6922/6dj8 in series.I have bought my Enolution 20se from a guy who ordered the ART and the EV20se was sounding better and much more musical.The now discontiued Premier 14 is an excellent linestage(has the same circuit and tubes as the ev20se)and can be found for a very reasonable price. I guess you are confused now so I'll make things short. No-ARC,Modulus,Sonic frontiers or anything with 6922/7308/6dj8 including some CJ-they won't match with the Bryston and horns. Yes-Cary,CJ pv10,11,12,14 and premier 14. Hope it makes it easier now. Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Ooooops , Forgot to add the VTL Ultimate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Surprised about the PV14 rec as it relies on the 6C4 which is not exactly an easy tube to find multiple good examples for (not that many choices) and is also a Hybrid model in that it uses a FET in the buffer stage. It uses just two 6C4 in the preamp. In addition, you are paying extra for surround sound wiring in this unit. Shapeshifter, I know you are loving the sound but not sure if this is the path to take if starting from scratch. This unit was made with the HT side in mind and you are paying for a HT loop in the circuit. You might be getting some good results but I tend to think this not the best option for two channel money spent. It does have a remote controlled "stepped attenuator" which is a good thing... Still, I have not heard this unit and it does sound like you like it. What other units besides the PV10 did you compare it to? On the other hand, I think ole Kris K is off on his own chase. My bet is he comes back with something completely different. kh NOTE ABOUT DACT- The ONLY reservation I have about the DACT unit is the fact that it does not have an abundance of steps (24) so wondering how the volume control would be for extremely sensitive speakers. My TKD has almost double the steps. This is one thing that always worried me about the DACT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Mobile, I think that it might be problem that the DACT has only 24 steps.I can connect the preamp to the 1.3v input instead of the 0.7v,high gain input of my Marantz model 2. As I recall I had such a problem with the CJ evolution 20se preamp. Do you think that I should pass the idea? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Well, if you want, you can put a hold on the order and I can find out from Kevin who just made some JBL and Pi horns he is running with 2A3 PP and 300B SET. HE has the DACT in a Basie preamp as well as a transformer based Passive unit. I was wondering this as well. My TKD has 40 steps but the first step is a mighty big jump depending on source output and amp/speaker sensitivity. Here is an older shot of the TKD stepped attenuator in my modified Cary awhile back (see the Kimber silver wire over top of board). The balance was removed. The TKD is about $230 if from Micheal Percy and has a 3 hole mounting configuration that would involve drilling the faceplate of the Ultimate. I am going to look for the Ultimate paperwork again as I know I didnt throw it out. I remember looking at it a few years back. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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