Karsoncookie Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 So I'm planning to build a pair of Cornscalas. Had a pair of LaScalas in a previous life and want to KEEP THAT sound. I had NO COMPLAINT with the original sound. I WANT the high end squaukiness or "harshness" many don't like.MY hearing is not perfect so Please don't try to recommend outside of that. PLEASE keep that in mind as you read on. Planning on "original" Cornscala design with bass bin with mid and tweet exposed on top w/ xover. Crites woofer in his 6.6 ft3 enclosure w/ ports. 2 Laminated 3/4" ply layers all sides to make 1.5" ply + bracing(I like the lam look w/ exposed edges) K400 horn (will clean the throat) w/ K55 driver. (YES, I want that horn) Crites ct125 tweeter or apt200 or 150???===== (cheaper)===== Crites AA xover. (Has been recommended to me by a few sources including ALK) A few questions- May I use "Precision Port" ports for appearance reasons if the same cross sectional area as the cut in ports and the shelf? So if so , what is the port equivalent?? I can easily figure cross sectional area, but dont know if we use the size of the port bore or flanges or which dimension? AND, how deep(long) onto the cab?? Crites ct125 vs APT 150 or 200 or Bob's selenium?? (Remember I want "Bright" and "Sharp" tinkling brushes on cymbals. I want to hear Micheal's fingers snapping in my room at the start of "Man in the mirror" No damping in the bass bin?Just good bracing? O, and if anybody has a pair of k400 w/wo drivers, let me know. Searching for those.Reasonable price, disabled retired here. Please, Thank all of you great folks here. I have spent SOOOO many hours searching and reading this awesome forum and think I have it figured out, but looking for critique and/or substantiation. Thank you all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 If you really liked the LaScala sound why would you want to downgrade to a direct radiating woofer, just build yourself a set of LaScala's or Belle's. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 28, 2014 Author Share Posted December 28, 2014 MMM..... Just got hooked on the Cornscala idea. I like the look of the exposed woof???? No rational answer to your question. Good rational question. Lars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skelt Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 O, and if anybody has a pair of k400 w/wo drivers, let me know. Searching for those.Reasonable price, disabled retired here. Where are you located? Will these work? they are k401 horns http://toledo.craigslist.org/ele/4820136309.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 (edited) So I'm planning to build a pair of Cornscalas. Had a pair of LaScalas in a previous life and want to KEEP THAT sound. I had NO COMPLAINT with the original sound. I WANT the high end squaukiness or "harshness" many don't like.MY hearing is not perfect so Please don't try to recommend outside of that. PLEASE keep that in mind as you read on. Planning on "original" Cornscala design with bass bin with mid and tweet exposed on top w/ xover. Crites woofer in his 6.6 ft3 enclosure w/ ports. 2 Laminated 3/4" ply layers all sides to make 1.5" ply + bracing(I like the lam look w/ exposed edges) K400 horn (will clean the throat) w/ K55 driver. (YES, I want that horn) Crites ct125 tweeter or apt200 or 150???===== (cheaper)===== Crites AA xover. (Has been recommended to me by a few sources including ALK) A few questions- May I use "Precision Port" ports for appearance reasons if the same cross sectional area as the cut in ports and the shelf? So if so , what is the port equivalent?? I can easily figure cross sectional area, but dont know if we use the size of the port bore or flanges or which dimension? AND, how deep(long) onto the cab?? Crites ct125 vs APT 150 or 200 or Bob's selenium?? (Remember I want "Bright" and "Sharp" tinkling brushes on cymbals. I want to hear Micheal's fingers snapping in my room at the start of "Man in the mirror" No damping in the bass bin?Just good bracing? O, and if anybody has a pair of k400 w/wo drivers, let me know. Searching for those.Reasonable price, disabled retired here. Please, Thank all of you great folks here. I have spent SOOOO many hours searching and reading this awesome forum and think I have it figured out, but looking for critique and/or substantiation. Thank you all. hello: each to his own. Why not consider a DBB cabinet so you can try to keep up with the K400? Ends up looking more like a Khorn than a CW. Also the CT125 is much more extended than any of the other tweeters you mentioned and it is far smoother than the others so you might want to drop the CT125 from your list and stick with a set of K77 if you want to keep the sound of a LaScala. I have no idea if you have seen the reflex riser mod for a LaScala or not but with the aid of a small volume riser box the same width and depth as the LaScala you can raise your LaScala so the K400 is at ear level and you can gain bass into the low 30 Hz range this is I think a far better option compared to a direct radiator if you want to keep the original sound. I am with you as far as brace work goes, Hope this has been of some interest and all the best to you in your project. Best regards Moray James. Edited December 28, 2014 by moray james 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Thank you guys. Reading and considering all. Bass damping, or no?? "If you really liked the LaScala sound why would you want to downgrade to a direct radiating woofer, just build yourself a set of LaScala's or Belle's." Jason - I'm confused- I understood Lascala "lacks" bass and Cornscala is a step up, not down. Did I miss something?? UH1- Thank you, but want 400's Moray - Thank you, but with a smallish room, and not being a bass maniac, one 15" per side is more than enough. Whats the latest buzz on vertical landscape or portrait orientation of a k77? Also, I've read a consensus on square mag vs round.If true, WHICH square mag letter suffix, and how to tell? printed on it? I know I'm being a Heretic with my original post preferences, But like I said, I was VERY happy with the original LaScala sound. Just want to build my own with some kinky design changes to call my own The only one I'm unsure about is ratios of bass bin Bob's design is a cube. I want to build more like 20x20x26 (or whatever equals the 6.9ft3 design volume) Just taller and slimmer. (And actually an Isosceles trapezoid when looking at the face.) Will look better for me, and get the horns higher toward ear level. Horns exposed on top, surface mounted on a 1/2" anodized AL plate. Was going to mount them on backside of plate, but with a square shoulder cutout as original LaScalas- Doesn't that contradict proper design? (I'm not wanting to get into rounding or chamfering 1/2" plate with my router, not more than a microbevel anyway) Any comment appreciated. Thick skinned here. Thanks, Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 1. As I understand it, the K400 and K401 are identical other than one is metal and one is plastic. Someone certainly might have a preference but for sound, I'd wager they're the same. 2. As to the comment about the bass of the LaScala verses Cornwall. My understanding is the LaScala will be a tighter bass but, not extend as deep as the Cornwall/CornScala. Add a sub to a LaScala and you will have CLEAN bass down to the depths. Remember, "if it moves, it distorts" The woofer (K33) on the Cornwall/Cornscala will be moving (distorting) more than the woofer (same K33) on the LaScala. It will however, dig deeper with the Cornwall/Cornscala. There are some that suggest the Cornscala is the worst of the worst. It has the direct/radiator of the Cornwall (verses horn loaded LaScala) and it has the midrange (K400/401) of the LaScala mated with each other. 3. Since you want thoughts..... if it were me.... If I were dead set on a Cornscala style, I'd go for it but instead of the K400/401, I'd install the Klipsch K510 (2" throat) and make it a 2-way. As an owner of both, I'm here to tell you the K510 will walk circles around the K400/401 however, it would probably be best to use an active crossover with it. I've got a third LaScala that I'll be using as a center channel. It is an empty cabinet. I'll populate it with a K33 and instead of the K400/K77, I'll modify the motorboard and slap a K510 in there and won't think twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 Thank you guys. Reading and considering all. Bass damping, or no?? "If you really liked the LaScala sound why would you want to downgrade to a direct radiating woofer, just build yourself a set of LaScala's or Belle's." Jason - I'm confused- I understood Lascala "lacks" bass and Cornscala is a step up, not down. Did I miss something?? UH1- Thank you, but want 400's Moray - Thank you, but with a smallish room, and not being a bass maniac, one 15" per side is more than enough. Whats the latest buzz on vertical landscape or portrait orientation of a k77? Also, I've read a consensus on square mag vs round.If true, WHICH square mag letter suffix, and how to tell? printed on it? I know I'm being a Heretic with my original post preferences, But like I said, I was VERY happy with the original LaScala sound. Just want to build my own with some kinky design changes to call my own The only one I'm unsure about is ratios of bass bin Bob's design is a cube. I want to build more like 20x20x26 (or whatever equals the 6.9ft3 design volume) Just taller and slimmer. (And actually an Isosceles trapezoid when looking at the face.) Will look better for me, and get the horns higher toward ear level. Horns exposed on top, surface mounted on a 1/2" anodized AL plate. Was going to mount them on backside of plate, but with a square shoulder cutout as original LaScalas- Doesn't that contradict proper design? (I'm not wanting to get into rounding or chamfering 1/2" plate with my router, not more than a microbevel anyway) Any comment appreciated. Thick skinned here. Thanks, Lars Lars: yes I think that you are missing rather a lot,a Cornwall or a Cornscala does not sound like a LaScala. A LaScala is a horn loaded three way loudspeaker with response limitations which are physical, intentional and unavoidable they don't make deep bass. Part of what makes the LaScala a special speaker is it's efficiency which is very close to true to life that's a huge part of why your brain responds to the LaScala the way it does the speaker sounds real with respect to dynamics. The Cornwall is a bass reflex design which uses the same woofer as the LaScala and in order to obtain deeper bass response the trade off is to give up efficiency, you cannot have both. That means that you have to pad down the level of the K400 and the K77 so you are throwing away the high efficiency for some bass which is to me a poor choice. Hence my suggestion to use dual woofers which buys you 3db higher efficiency for the woofer section which is about as good as you are going to get with respect to overall volume using direct radiators. The Reflex vented riser that I mentioned is the easiest way and the least expensive way to add bass to a LaScala and in the absolute smallest volume possible. According to those who have built the riser mod it integrates extremely well and it is completely reversible. The K77 is a diffraction horn and is intended to be positioned with its long axis vertical. You can audition both ways and choose for yourself. I would be much more concerned with aligning it to the mid horn diaphragm to diaphragm. Personally I agree with Coyote and would choose a two way with a large format driver for better integration and lower distortion. I realize that is not what you said that you were after I just wanted you to understand my personal bias. Overall I cannot imagine an easier less expensive and totally reversible solution to your concern to keep the sound the same and to add some bass and to get the mid horn up to your seated ear level than the reflex riser. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Moray - OMG --reading and re reading and digesting. Re: "I would be much more concerned with aligning it to the mid horn diaphragm to diaphragm. I believe you mean horizontally to be be aligned on an imaginary verticall axis(which of course LaScalas do not do at all) Manyhigh end speakersobviously honor that, others Totally disregard it. ?"Time alignment"? if I'm not mistaken. Not sure.Point is many disregard it. So I'm confused. Re: elevation of tweet to ears- We can just achieve that with legs, bases, concrete blocks, etc. (All arguable) I mean --I dunno--some say pin the bass to the floor (makes sense- similiar to bracing sidewalls of bin) either case minimizez loss of wanted energy--l- then THE SAME folks in other posts say "sure_ go ahead put the casters you want under your 200 lb sub so you can dust the floor" Totally contradictory. Head spinning. Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I'm just respectfully sayin PWK's button could have said "SOBS" (sorting out BS) rather than just "BS" like I understand it did. Im not being an a..hole, just trying to learn. Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have spent SOO many hours reading posts on this forum, Audiokarma Klipsch, and others. They are all, but probably here most, A wonderful place to be. Thank you Moray and all. Will continue to welcome your folk's ideas. Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 As I said with the tweeter orientation try it both ways and see what works best for you in your room you are bound to prefer it one way more than the other. Same goes for time alignment it is not difficult to understand why many ignore it similarly with respect to casters is the the best no but it may be practical for some so do what you need to do. The most important horn/driver to have at your listening ear level is the mid and again this is very easy for you to evaluate then you will know for yourself. Your brain is most critically tuned to mid frequencies. These things are simple to evaluate so there is no reason for confusion. Experimentation is the best way for you to learn. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted December 31, 2014 Author Share Posted December 31, 2014 Moray - Thank you, continuing to digest. I could build the bass (an independant unit) and expiriment w mid/ tweet placement.But stuck on AA xover from Crites using his woof, k4000 w 55 and k77 probably over ct125. (keeping closest to my old LaScalas I'm triyn) On one hand , trying to learn, then, on the other, (due to limited budget) If I'm tickled pink w bbq'd Chuck Steak, scared of being introduced to Rib Steak. With the Cowboy frenched bone, 32 oz, Rare OMG. Digressing now, blame it on the Cabernet. ..Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 Re: the "riser" idea - So I end up with two woofers on each side I understand. Doesn't the crossover need to be modified for that? Is that "reversible? And then, are the woofers connected series or parallel, or is there two sets of woofer out terminals on the crossover? Thanks again, Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) the Cabernet is lingering still. the riser mod can be down to a LaScala in two different ways, you can build a riser (five sided box)about 7 inches internal which has two vents 4"x7" and the vents can be on any side that you like. The riser is the exact same size as the LaScala. You remove the trap door on the dog house and screw on the vented riser to the bottom of the cabinet. that is method number one. method number evolves turning the bass section upside down so the dog house door faces up. You then install a back panel on the open back side of the top hat section which houses the mid horn and the tweeter horn. the back panel has the same two vents and you have done the exact same mod. the riser mod (either method) has nothing to do with multiple woofers. I suggest and sen you a picture of a DBB cabinet which is two CW woofer cabinets which are vertically stacked. This too will raise the horn up higher than a standard CW cabinet which is good. I expect your confusion arises from this. The riser mod requires no changes to the speakers short of the physical changes mentioned the network and drivers are all the same you touch nothing. All that happens is that you boos the level of your woofer horn section by about 10 db at around 38 Hz which is a very big deal. I hope that helps. Best regards Moray James. here is a link where the op is considering the riser mot on the top section of a Belle with the vents on the front and another photo of one with the vents on the real of a LaScala. You can search on your own to find threads (a fair number) in the riser mod with the added section on the bottom of the speaker. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/154589-port-location-for-belles-with-bass-reflex/ another link of a similar thread with internal photos of the top section showing open dog house door and vents on the rear in this project. DJK by the way is the man who came up with the riser mod. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/152611-bull-nosed-horn-project/ Edited January 2, 2015 by moray james Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 I misspoke. My questions referred to your photo of the DBB. (I should have not said "Riser") "Re: the "riser" idea - So I end up with two woofers on each side I understand. Doesn't the crossover need to be modified for that? Is that "reversible? And then, are the woofers connected series or parallel, or is there two sets of woofer out terminals on the crossover?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 you will need to research the DDB builds in the archives at this site. There you will find what was done with the crossovers. If you are delighted with the bass that you are obtaining from your Khorns then keep the Khorn bottom and work on the mid and hi horns. There are a number of threads on turning three way Khorns into two way Khorns that would be the easiest thing for you to do and get what you want. Best regards Moray James. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 check this out very fast free is as good as it gets. Best regards Moray James. https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/154554-free-stuff/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karsoncookie Posted January 4, 2015 Author Share Posted January 4, 2015 Thank you Moray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.