new vs heritage? RF7, Cornwall, Belle?

[kjohnsonhp]

My housemate had new Cornwalls in '85 while in College and now I want to upgrade my home theatre. I'm wonderig if I should try to build a heritage system or start with the new reference series. I don't have room for the KHorns but any of the other speakers would fit. I live in Dallas/Ft.Worth and see some Belle's & Cornwalls available in TX. I guess I could use Heresey's for the center/surrounds. I'm not sure if the heritage has an advantage over the new speakers built specifically for home theatre and how well the center speaker will match. I also listen to music...mostly vinyl (rock w/some classial) with over 2,000 lps. I currently have a Cambridge Soundworks PS1 500W/15" sub and Center Channel speaker but I plan to move them on to another room. Any recommendations?

[edwardre]

Welcome aboard!

You will find opinions on the questions you've asked throughout this forum. There are advocates for both Heritage and newer, and passions often run high. Clearly, it is a matter of personal taste. I'm all heritage in my HT so I'll cast my vote there. IMHO, you cannot beat the 'grandeur'. Good luck!

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Ed

[SCOOTERDOG]

My personal opinion would be to go with the heritage line. Since you can't fit the Khorns and you are considering Belles then I would go with the La Scala's, as they share the same components as the Khorn ( mid horn). The belles are more attractive then the La Scala's but they are not quite the same in sound. I am a little bias since I have La Scala's. I went thru the same thing as you when trying to decide. I wanted Khorns but couldn't afford them.

The RF series is very nice and I think you would be happy with them. But if you want wide dynamics and low distortion and a sound that is Khorn like then go with the La Scala's as the mains. If you have the room then a Belle or another La Scala for the center channel would be ideal. If you don't have the room for the large center then go with the top end RF center or try to find a Klipsch Academe center. For the surround channels Heresy's would be excellent. I went with the Klipsch Wide Dispersion Surround Technology speakers for my sides and rear surround channels. I am extremely pleased with the sound. Also consider a sub to smooth out the bottom end.

So there you have it IMHO.

" TARGET=_blank]http://216.37.9.58/ubb/cwmsmilies/cwm1.gif

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Denon AVR 3801

Onkyo M504 Power Amp driving the mains

Technique A-10 DVD Audio/Video Player

Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/Dvd Player

Dish Network Dolby Digital Sat receiver

Mitsubishi 50" Screen

Mitsubishi HSU-575 HiFi VCR

Klipsch La Scala ( Mains)

Klipsch RFC5 Center

Klipsch RSS6 Surround Side

Klipsch RSS .5 Back surround

Klipsch KSW 12 Subwoofer

Denon DRA-295 Stereo Receiver Driving Outdoor Speakers

Boston Acoustics OutDoor Speakers

My Home Theater Page http://www.geocities.com/scooterb4u/ScootersHT.html

[j-malotky]

If possible, do an all Heritage HT.

Keep watching Ebay and BBS's for equipment. You eventually will find it in your area.

An all Heritage HT is hard to beat.....

JM

[Colin]

I think that the old black 12" discs do have great sound qualities. For one thing, they seem to have a lower noise floor, when mechanical effects are heavily dampened and a better high end than the 20kHz cut-off on CDs. If you like vinyl, you will love what the Heritage speakers can do with vinyl and a tube or high-quality SS amp ...

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Colin's Music System Ak-2 Khorns & Klipsch subs; lights out, tubes glowing & smile beaming!

[ShapeShifter]

I'm biased toward the Heritage line of speakers, as they imo do great for 2-channel and HT systems. I've owned the earlier RF-3 Series and liked them. However, the Heritage speakers afford me a musical experience that no other Klipsch line can duplicate.

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>

[jdm56]

I've got to go along with the crowd here - Heritage all the way! Not that there is anything wrong with the Reference line, but there is just nothing like the classic PWK designed speakers in terms of sound quality, reliability, resale value (not that you'll ever want to sell 'em, of course!) and just over-all pride of ownership. If cornerhorns are out of the picture, I'd recommend a trio of belles across the front if your set-up allows a full-size center. Otherwise, a heresy II would do nicely. And yes, heresy II's in back with the belles would be sweet.

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JDM

[kjohnsonhp]

Thanks for the coaching. I'm excited about getting some Heritage speakers but not sure how to fit a full size speaker in the center. I'd like it to be placed below the screen which I could do now with a taller cabinet for my 27" tube. I wired my room for a projector so I believe that would work, too but I'm not planning for that expense in today's economy. If I used my 50" Pioneer Big Screen then it wouldn't fit. Does anyone put the full size speaker above the screen? The new center channel form factors provide a much better fit, but I'm nervous about the matching.

I'm also needing to investigate the cost of having someone pack and ship these heavy speakers. It may make me just shop locally in Dallas.

I built a room above my 3 car garage with the screenat the end with the slanted walls on left and right starting 35.5" from the floor.

[kjohnsonhp]

I've attached a photo of my room....Today it's a kids room for PS2 & N64 gaming with the cheap SONY HTIB for sound. I placed the 35" Pioneer speakers in the corners temporarily for sizing since they are close to the height of La Scalas & Belles I'm thinkig about buying.

I don't think the K-Horns will fit in the corners--they would have to be pulled out from the roof line. Belles/La Scalas would fit well. Do you recommend La Scalas over Belle? Belles look better and less like a PA system. I like will mostly play movies and Rock, but I really hope to enjoy classical for critical listening (like going to the syphony).

For a center I could add an Academy or invert a Heresy. I guess I could invert a La Scala,too. What do you think? The Academy form factor would be better because when I add a screen I don't want to pull it out and put speakers behind. Of course I may end up with a rear projector or plasma instead...it's not soon.

I have the room wired for a projector in the future. The 27" tube is there for now (my Pioneer Big Screen is downstairs) while I wait for my funding and HDTV/projector costs to converge. I haven't been too thrilled with projectors so far, though...they seem grey.

I'd like side dipole speakers but I the roof line makes it tough. I might put some on stands but that a finishing touch.

Behind the door are my vinyl goodies.

[SCOOTERDOG]

kjohnsonhp,

I would go with the La Scala over the Belle. Yes the Belle is more furniture like but the La Scala will give you a much closer sound to the Klipschorn you like. You can spend a weekend and really put a nice finish on the La Scala's and top it off with a nice coat of clear urethane. I did mine like this about 12 years ago. The finish has held very good. If you do this make sure you remove the top two horns so you don't get stain on them.

Good luck!

------------------

Denon AVR 3801

Onkyo M504 Power Amp driving the mains

Technique A-10 DVD Audio/Video Player

Pioneer DVL-909 Laserdisc/Dvd Player

Dish Network Dolby Digital Sat receiver

Mitsubishi 50" Screen

Mitsubishi HSU-575 HiFi VCR

Klipsch La Scala ( Mains)

Klipsch RFC5 Center

Klipsch RSS6 Surround Side

Klipsch RSS .5 Back surround

Klipsch KSW 12 Subwoofer

Denon DRA-295 Stereo Receiver Driving Outdoor Speakers

Boston Acoustics OutDoor Speakers

My Home Theater Page http://www.geocities.com/scooterb4u/ScootersHT.html

[Klipschguy]

If you are not going to use a serious sub, I would highly recommend you check out the Cornwalls. Cornwalls have about one more octave of deep bass extension over the La Scalas (you will read some people saying "perceived" lack of bass when referring to La Scalas, well it ain't perceived, it is measurable with a meter and definitely audible).

Also, the Cornwall's bass, while not quite folded horn tight, is tight, powerful, accurate, quality bass - not flabby at all, (so don't let people tell you "I'll take limited accurate bass over deep inaccurate bass)." Voice reproduction with the Cornwall is also very clear and natural - read: outstanding.

Home theater needs deep bass to sound right. The Khorns would be my first choice, Cornwalls second. The La Scala may be your personal best choice, but the Cornwall is worth checking out. It is a jack of all trades that does well in all areas. All of the Heritage line are great, but you owe it to yourself to do a little listening so your own ears can decide what's best for you. Nothing against the La Scala, just offering another choice that has not been mentioned.

(Guys, this isn't intended as an attack on the La Scala, so please don't be offended. I just don't want this guy to buy La Scala's and wonder where the bass is. That's what happened in the "scandalous scala" thread, which was not good, IMHO.)

Just my 2 cents,

Andy

[kjohnsonhp]

Just a note on bass. I have a 500W/12" Cambridge Soundworks sub woofer. I don't know if it is quality enough to add any value until I add a more serious sub woofer system down the line.

As for the Cornwalls, I know I like them. In college--eeks 15 years ago--that is what I had in the house w/Carver M1.5 amp. I see some on ebay in Dallas that look to be in great shape. I heard the KHorns playing the 1812 with cannons--that has impressed me to this day. I just don't think I can squeeze them in my slanted corners though--see pic.

I perceived the Belles/La Scalas as better only because I remember they were notably more expensive back in 84/85 when we bought the Cornwalls...

The local retailers I visited recently are recommending DefTech, Mirage, Sonus Faber, and leaving the RF7's as an option. I think the Cornwalls/La Scalas will wow me and save some cash for electronics but I can't compare them in the store.

Although I'm mostly a rock fan, for critical listening I want emotions to be pushed to the limit listening to classical...Mozart's Horn Concertos, Handel's Fireworks Music w/side drums, and the soft piano of Clair de lune by Debussey and the full range of sound and emotion found in Tchaikovsky Pathetique sympony.

I say this because one Cornwall customer segmented the Cornwalls into rock and the Belles into classical tastes...

[Klipschguy]

The La Scalas and Belles are more expensive than the Cornwalls due to the complexity of the cabinets which takes a bunch of time to build and Klipsch charges for it. I believe, but I'm not certain, that the La Scala was not originally intended to be a home speaker, but rather a PA speaker. The Cornwall was designed (before the La Scala or Belle) by PWK to be used as home speaker that would be a smaller package than the Khorn but still deliver a punch. His formidable design could be placed in a corner or along a wall, hence the name Corn-Wall. The Khorn, Belle, La Scala and Cornwalls all use the same, exact drivers (except later Cornwalls).

From my extensive listening, I would reverse the rock/classical thing giving the egde to the Cornwalls for classical and also giving the edge to the La Scalas for rock. A wonderful thing about the La Scalas is their ability to absolutely crank and really rock a party. If I was into blasting my music, as I was at one time, I would definitely buy the La Scalas -they can really rock without much compression.

Cornwalls and La Scalas are different with personalities that strongly suit different listening preferences. Be careful you choose the one that matches yours.

Andy

This message has been edited by Klipschguy on 08-21-2002 at 10:10 AM

[kjohnsonhp]

Many probably have seen this already but it's a very compelling reason for me to select the Cornwalls. He comments on the reproduction of sound from a variety of instruments and music styles.

http://www.belgaudio.com/kcmap.htm

Would inverting another Cornwall on top of my oak TV cabinet (see pic from previous message) be stable and sonically appropriate? Maybe I'll just put a Heresy below my TV...I can then drop a screen down to the top of the Hersey later where another Cornwall would be too tall.

[Danartdis]

kjohnson,

Im not sure that a Cornwall on top to that entertainment unit is a good idea. Also consider that none of the Heritage line is magnetically shielded so placement near a TV tube can be tricky. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Dan

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Danartdis system

HK AVR 500

Heresy mains

Heresy rears

Academy center

JBL 4638"sub"woofer

PE 250 watt sub amp

[kjohnsonhp]

Center channel imaging question

I appears the Academy would be the best fit for me and my future heritage HT since I can't put a 36" high speaker in the center with my tube, future screen or potential big screen moved from downstairs...and I don't want to replace the entertainment center just for my temporary 27" tube. The HT will eventually get a bigger screen.

The second option would be Heresy if I can't find an Academy.

How is the imaging when using a speaker like a Heresy that isn't designed to be a center? The best test I could do at this time was to replaced my $150 Cambridge Sound Works Center Channel Plus speaker with a bookshelf speaker (Boston Acoustic) as a test. The result was a more full sound (relative) but also more attention on the fact that a lot of sound was coming from the box above the 50" TV. I saw voices on the screen but kept hearing sound from above...more so than with my center channel speaker... will this be less an issue with a Cornwall front l/r & Heresy? and even less with an Academy? I'm using a Denon 2800 Dolby Prologic Receiver which allows me to lower the power to the center and blend it in more with the sides which is what I do today with old Heresy-sized speakers and center channel which is like a wide satelite and sounds too thin louder than the sides.

I've been a little frustrated with the mix-match left-overs I'm using today so I'm looking forward to my first big investment in speakers. I'm thinking of a Denon 3802, Cornwalls/LaScalas/or Belles, Academy and Heresy's for rear and even sides eventually although I'll think about the modern dipoles for sides. I'll try my PSW1 Sub to see if it adds value until I invest in a better one. Then the screen gets dropped and the project goes in the spot I wired when I built the room...I hope they get cheaper and better by then...they look a little gray now compared to my rear projector 50" Pioneer. Since my wall can't hold more than about an 84" wide screen due to the roof like at the top the projector isn't a must.

[j-malotky]

kjohnson

As far as centers. What I believe is you should match your R+L mains as close as you can to your center. Use the same speaker if possible. But it sounds like you have some size restrictions. If you use Cornwalls, you could use a Heresy. If you use Belle's or LS's you will probably find the Heresy is too small.

It is most important to match your squawker.

I tried a Heresy between my Khorns and it was way too small sounding.

If you check out my pictures in the Odds and Mods you will see I used a K400 squawker and K77 tweeter to match the mids and highs of my Khorns, then used a pair of Heresy woofers for the mid/low sounds. I then set the crossover on my HT proccessor to throw all sounds under 80HZ to the subs from the center channel. The front of my HT sounds seamless I believe from the match of my K400. It also has a lot smaller footprint than my original plan of using a LS. A simular setup could easily be placed over or under your TV.

JM

[kjohnsonhp]

I bought a pair of Walnut Cornwalls --$860 and I picked them up a short drive across the city. I love the condition and sound. Walnut, no chips, beatiful--see pic. I added them to my family room ht for a test. I'm now moving them upstairs where I'm building a HT starting with these.

My wife is not pleased...she thought my speakers were going to fit in my Mustang. When I took the Durango she got alarmed. I think the only thing worse would have been a 20-something blonde instead of these 20-something year old speakers. "big,ugly, decaying, $10 garage sale waste of money speakers that look like my grandfather's that will only be used to make more noise and aggrevate me" I think the appraisal was upon seeing their oversized presence in the family room. They are now upstairs in my media/game room playing softly while eveyone sleeps...hard to do.

Question: How do I know what year? SN's 9P688 and 10P000. They are hand signed on back.

They also have owners information package stapled to the back of each sealed. I've left them there--what's inside?

I played these with my 500W 12" Cambridge Soundworks sub and it add some bass for movies so until I upgrade subs I may continue using it. For music I turned it off--not needed & too much. They worked ok with my small Cambridge Soundworks center--better than no center--but I was really impressed with the great sound out of the Cornwalls...Star Wars Episode 1 was a new experience. I now can't wait for more speakers! I want full range in the rear and new Dolby...no more mono satellites w/old Dolby ProLogic. I hope I will be satisfied with Heresy's due to space limits for now.

Thanks for all the feedback on this board. I was leaning towards Belles at first but I knew the Cornwall sound and had never heard Belles/La Scalas. I also don't plan on upgrading to an awesome sub in the near term and my room really only has room for Heresy's so when the Cornwalls showed up within a quick drive I bought them---my lowest price solution, too. They should be a good match with the Heresy's--I hope.

The nice thing about Heritage is knowing I could buy the La Scalas or Belles and audition them in my home and then sell the pair I like least...assuming I do a decent job of not paying too much.

Yikes! I now want to buy more stuff.

[Klipschguy]

Congrats. You're speakers are 1976 - good year. Smart idea about the Belle/La Scala thing. Heresys will match up well for rears and center. Concerning what's in the packages, well, I'd like to know myself. Also, if your veneer is looking tired, look in the achives for some ways to revitalize it.

Warmest regards,

Andy

[ShapeShifter]

Baring any previous changes to the internals, your 76 Cornwalls likely have K-77 Alnico Tweeters, K-55-V Squawkers and a version of K-33 Woofers. My 71's have K-33-P's and the 85's have k-33-E's. You have a very good year and their condition looks great.

Cornwalls will work great as 2-channel or HT speakers. A Cornwall, Belle or Heresy will serve well as a center channel. An Academy too, but they are hard to find and costly. Cornwalls would also make great surround speakers for Belles and La Scala's.

Nice looking environment! Your theater sound and experience will certainly improve with the appropriate Heritage added for center and surrounds.

Wes

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KLIPSCH IS MUSICf>

My Systems f>s>c>