edwardre Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Hunkered down in my garage trying to beat the heat and looking for any excuse not to go out and work the yard, I dragged my old no-op ST-70 into the light and commenced to repair. Other than a brief 30 minute period last year when I dragged it out for the first time ever, I have not really given tubes opportunity to win me over. With all the tasty new toys to play with....DTS...DVD-Audio...I simply felt that the whole tube scene was frankly, overblown. I have now heard the error of my ways and throw myself upon the mercy of the board as to whether I am worthy of assistance or just another lost cause. Now I find myself in a quandry....having justifyied to the missus extensive HT equipment purchases under the guise of 'we'll all enjoy the movie theater thrill in our own HT room', I now find that I want to utilyze the Khorns for the purpose for which they were created.....2 channel tubeing. In short I want the best of both worlds. So the question is how do I facilitate this need? Do I setup the ST-70/DYNA PAS2 setup alongside the formidable HT equipment 'team' and switch the Khorn's duties via a switchbox of sorts? Does anybody have a recommendation as to a decent speaker switchbox...2 in, 1 out....that will not degrade the signal? Or should I forsake the PAS2, which I believe is a 'tube preamp' and lends to the overall sensation, for the pre-outs on the Denon 3802 to the ST-70? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 I had a similar problem between HT and DynaQuad (for music). I got excellent results with a Niles Audio DPS-1. The biggest hassles is that you have to put bayonets on all the cords, as the I/O is via holes with screw-down tighteners. However, once up, it was a simple and effect method for switching. I didn't really see anything else on the market for this purpose. I considered old fashioned knife switches at one point, but ruled it out on both safety (of the equipment) and operation by the wife. BTW, I have an ST70 I carried around for 30 years that is even now with Frank Van Alstine for rebuild. I've a Super PAS4i preamp that will be the front end. Looking forward to it! Dave This message has been edited by Mallett on 08-17-2002 at 05:04 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 17, 2002 Author Share Posted August 17, 2002 Thanks. Yup....the wife AND kids are definately something to consider. I'll look into the Niles thing. Another question. In dinking around, I've found that the '70's tuner (it's a Sansui) sounds better than any CD player I hook up. Is that because of the digital aspect....the D/A converters? And the tuner sounds so good in comparison because it's primarily all analog? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 Well, remember you ARE listening to CD's...thru the tuner. However, the station is probably using pretty pricey players...and that's the rub. 70's tuners, including Sansui, are highly regarded. I've a Sony ST3950 I paid 39.00 for at a pawn shop, and I love it. For my taste, I expect that a dedicated CD player I could enjoy would start at around 1500.00, which is out of range. So I build one, using a 300.00 Dell 410 server with a pull out drive bay that will hold 5 HDDs. I am using a Pinnacle sound card, and the sound is the best CD sound I've ever heard. Mind you, I've not been exposed to real high end CD players, but I've had plenty of the basic variety. Couldn't listen very long. I've an 80gig drive at the moment that will hold around 150 CD's untranscoded. I'll add more drives as I need more space. I am basically analog, 1500 or so LP's and a few hundred 78's. Never found any digital as satisfying on really serious music. I do intend to get a 24/96 capable card soon and will try some transfers to see if that helps. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Come taste muh' Klipsch! This message has been edited by Mallett on 08-17-2002 at 07:38 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 17, 2002 Share Posted August 17, 2002 I got very (very very) satisfactory results in "HT" by using stereo khorns and a front-channel feed into the hifi. Yes, two channel only. But with the khorns, oh, what two channels. Whenever I want to impress someone with the "HT" aspects, I put on The Matrix and zip to the helicopter scene where the gatling gun is rattling away, brass casings falling to the ground. Gets 'em every time. Sell your HT stuff and buy more movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 18, 2002 Author Share Posted August 18, 2002 "Sell your HT stuff and go buy movies"....Ooooh....I don't know about that one, Randy! Not unless the movie was 'Death Wish". I would be shot upon sight....or in the very least, never, ever allowed to purchase another audio device in this lifetime.... And really, although I enjoy 'getting back to basics' with the (admittedly startup quality) tube gear, I have to say that I derive far greater listening pleasure from the all large format "retro'd to the '50's and slightly modded" surround sound experience. I have found nothing that can erase the world like 6 Trusonics going off in harmony to a well engineered DVD-Audio disk. And I'm not speaking of loud, ear-splitting/wax melting levels. At good solid listening levels, you almost physically cannot 'think' of anything during 'play'. Totally immersive. Call it blasphemy if you must, but I spent the better part of yesterday switching K-horns - and 1954 K-horns at that - made in the tube era for tubes....back and forth from tube setup to Hi-res surround and the even higher res (192/24) 2-channel DVD-A format. For my money, hands down the comparison is just not fair. I will state now, leaving myself wide open for rebuttal, that you cannot come close to the effect of total QUALITY sound immersion with 2 channels. The most glaring issue I can see with 2 channels is that the various instruments, vocals and other sounds do not have their own 'space' to bloom but rather 'stack-up' vying for their places atop one another. However, that being said, the downside is of course that there are precious few titles out and only a percentage of the ones out there are mixed properly. Hence the desire to 'fill the void' with a 2-channel tube setup through stereo Khorns....so I'm not destined to listen to 3 or 4 titles that are truly magical. I think today's experiment will be to run the hi-res 2 channel output - the 192/24 - of the DVD-A player through the tube setup to see (or hear) what that sounds like. Anyone else currently doing this? What is your experience like? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 What kind of material are you listening to on DVD-A? I actually thought DVD-A was 24/96...either way I've not had a chance to hear it. The only multi-channel I hear is Dolby/DTS stuff, and while immersive for movies always seems contrived and "steered." Just not natural. As I mention ad nauseum on the list, the only multi-channel I've found musically satisfying is the DynaQuad setup. OTOH, I certainly agree that two channels only is, at best, 2 dimensional. No music heard live is 2 dimensional. I find the arguments for two channel as somehow superior to all other forms no more convincing that those who argue for mono. Personally, I like it DONE WELL, no matter how many or how few channels! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted August 18, 2002 Share Posted August 18, 2002 edwardre, It may be a hole you may not be willing to jump into, but for great 2 channel music enjoyment, horns, tubes, a good turntable, and vinyl, beats the sound of CD. No doubt about it. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 19, 2002 Author Share Posted August 19, 2002 Hey Dave, Excuse my ignorance over the tube fine points, but aren't you suppose to have the amp outputs loaded when you turn it on? So...with the DPS-1, when switched to the other amp, if the ST-70 is powered on mistakenly, will it be adversely affected? Or is it that you can't have just one output of the amp hooked up and the other 'floating'? Or is it that you have to have TUBES in both L & R circuits? I recall a year or so ago when I wanted to get the old ST going the first time, there were only enough good tubes to populate one of the two channels. Thinking hmmm....I'll just put all the good ones on one circuit, hook up one speaker, and then see if the unit works in general prior to going through the ordeal of getting tubes. So that's what I did. The ensuing smokefest still has me turning on the ST with a long wooden dowel. Evidently, that was the wrong thing to do. Just don't want to make the same type of mistake again. Figured no matter how stupid the question, can't be as stupid as leaping first then having to ask 'how to fix'? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 19, 2002 Author Share Posted August 19, 2002 Thanks mdeneen for the assurance. As far as 'proper' fuse......here's where I expose my stupidity or ignorance.....nope, it was stupidity, I should have known better.....there was no fuse at that time so in my zest to 'see if it was functioning', rather than get the proper fuse, I stuck a 30 amp like automotive headlight fuse in there......I think there's a 2A fuse in there now and I believe that's what the original fuseholder required before it obliterated into a million pieces.....can someone verify? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 It WAS a hard way to learn what your pop's always told you about sticking a penny into the fuseholder. But, live and learn...now I've a 2A fast. So with the ST-70 all fixed up and detailed.....BTW - man oh man does that stainless base take on a shine or what??? The unit was looking rather mottled so I treated it with some sort of brass shine stuff that the missus had up under the sink. Buffed it with the Dremel buffing disk and holy cow! Like a mirror. Looked so good I had to do something about that 60's looking brown screen. After taping the logo, I sprayed it down with a fresh coat of Krylon semi-flat (satin?) black 'rust tough'. It is one cool looking unit. Anyway, my attentions have turned to the PAS. Brass outer front is pretty sad. Gonna have to be replaced unless I can remove and restore. I looked inside and note with keen interest that the original 'Dynaco' tubes are still present. So my question is 'how long do tubes last?' And, is there a recommended 'norm' for routine replacement? What type would you recommend? ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 20, 2002 Share Posted August 20, 2002 The Original Dynaco's should be Telefunken and if so they last a very very long time. Do you have access to a tube tester you will most likely find that they test good. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted August 20, 2002 Author Share Posted August 20, 2002 I haven't seen a tube tester in Safeways for a long time....but, as near as I can tell, the PAS works just fine and dandy. What should I expect to hear/not hear with a tube or two that is on the fritz? Is it a subtle degradation or a hard failure? Thanks ------------------ Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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