New to me Klipsch Reference R26-F possible crossover mod

[creeve]

Hello All

This is my first post here on the board but have been reading for a while.  I just purchased some pre-owned R26-F speakers.  So far I love them, they do so many things right , however I find the horns a bit fatiguing at times, especially with some jazz stuff.  My music tastes are quite eclectic so I may be listening to Miles one minute and The Who the next if you know what I mean.  I realize there is no such thing as a perfect speaker, but I think these could come close if I could tame the horns a bit.  My other speakers are KEF and DCM Timeframes so it could be my ears being used to "laid back" speakers as well.  My system is all solid state with the exception of a dedicated tube phono stage.  My first thought was a crossover modification of some sort, but maybe some of the experts here can chime in.  I know these are on the lower end of the Klipsch lineup but I feel they have real potential.  One other thing I noticed is that surface noise on vinyl seems to be more pronounced​ with these speakers.  Any suggestions would definitely we welcomed.

 

Thank You

Chris

[felipe]

Hi Chris. I'm kinda a newbie myself here, but I also have the R-26F towers as well. These are more "forward" sounding, and since your used to "laid back" these can sound a bit fatiguing.

Sometimes the "brightness" of the sound can be associated with the gear. What gear are you running? Yamaha and Onkyo tend to be on the brighter sounding side. Denon and Marantz are more warmer sounding. I'm running mine with a Sony AVR which I find to be more "neutral" sounding.

Positioning can have an effect as well. As far as the more pronounced vinyl surface noise, it could be that these are more revealing speakers than what your used to. I know I hear more detail with these than with my previous speakers.

I've also been experimenting with how I wire them up to. I found that if you diagonal wire them (meaning use to + of the HF binding post and the - of the LF binding post) it seemed to balance out the overall tonal characteristics...less "fatiguing" if I may say so. Google "diagonal wiring speakers" if my explanation wasn't clear.

Anyway, I hope this helps a little . Welcome to the Forum

[The History Kid]

Seems to be the flavor and usual response to the R-26F Icon "Reference" speakers. I never understood what was or is so special about them.

[felipe]

Seems to be the flavor and usual response to the R-26F Icon "Reference" speakers. I never understood what was or is so special about them.

I believe it's the 1/2 off BF sale "bang for your buck" that makes them appealing. At 350/pair, it's kinda hard not to like them

[creeve]

Hi Chris. I'm kinda a newbie myself here, but I also have the R-26F towers as well. These are more "forward" sounding, and since your used to "laid back" these can sound a bit fatiguing.

Sometimes the "brightness" of the sound can be associated with the gear. What gear are you running? Yamaha and Onkyo tend to be on the brighter sounding side. Denon and Marantz are more warmer sounding. I'm running mine with a Sony AVR which I find to be more "neutral" sounding.

Positioning can have an effect as well. As far as the more pronounced vinyl surface noise, it could be that these are more revealing speakers than what your used to. I know I hear more detail with these than with my previous speakers.

I've also been experimenting with how I wire them up to. I found that if you diagonal wire them (meaning use to + of the HF binding post and the - of the LF binding post) it seemed to balance out the overall tonal characteristics...less "fatiguing" if I may say so. Google "diagonal wiring speakers" if my explanation wasn't clear.

Anyway, I hope this helps a little . Welcome to the Forum

Thank you for the suggestion.  I have never heard of such a thing as far as the diagonal wiring is concerned, and I have been into hifi gear for a very long time.  I googled it and sure enough there was tons of information about it, still having a hard time wrapping my head around why it would make a difference but hey I will try it, its a free mod and we all love those.  As far as my amp goes, I am using a vintage Kenwood integrated KA 7100 from they late 70's and it is definitly more neutral than anything else, plus I have tubes in the signal chain for vinyl listening.

[The History Kid]

And that may actually be the issue creeve.

You have an amp that's quality outperforms the speakers you have there. Don't get me wrong, they're by no means bad speakers, but they aren't true to the Klipsch line really. I bet if you bought a pair of legit Reference speakers (or what they now call Reference Premium), you would find no complaints, except probably that you can't get enough of them.

[derrickdj1]

Don't rag on the Icon line, the Icon V's where Klipsch first venture in big box stores and the speaker did really well.  The V series had a flowered type horn which was a little different than the W and X series.  These speakers were not any brighter or harsh than some of the higher price reference.  I own the entire series and still have the VF 35 tower.  They also look much better than what BB and HH greg are selling.  They had a nice gloss finish and better looking grills IMHO.

[felipe]

Interesting, I figured a quality amp would actually bring out the better in speakers? It's all about the synergy between the gear and speakers I guess

+1 on that Derrickdj1. This new "Reference" line may not be as good as its big brothers in certain ways, but that doesn't mean they don't perform well...which they do. I've only had the R-26s for a couple of weeks now, and they "do so many things right " as Chris put it . They're not even broke-in yet.

Speaking of that Chris, another possibility in your situation could be that your R-26s are fully broken-in yet ( even though they were pre-owned ).

Also, your listening space can impact your sound too...which you probably already know lol. Sorry for sounding redundant.

[tube fanatic]

Chris, if your listening levels don't require a huge amount of power, consider a nice single ended triode amp.  Not only can they tame a bright top end due to their typical characteristics, but they will also give you a listening experience which can't be duplicated with solid state equipment (imho, of course!).  I'm very familiar with the DCM speakers and their "New England" sound.  SETs can help you achieve a very similar presentation with most Klipsch speakers.  If you're interested in this possibility, come on over to the "Talkin' Tubes" section where there's an abundance of info on this subject.

 

Maynard

[Jim]

if the speakers are still bright, try toeing them out a little and see if the adjustmnent helps.

[creeve]

Chris, if your listening levels don't require a huge amount of power, consider a nice single ended triode amp.  Not only can they tame a bright top end due to their typical characteristics, but they will also give you a listening experience which can't be duplicated with solid state equipment (imho, of course!).  I'm very familiar with the DCM speakers and their "New England" sound.  SETs can help you achieve a very similar presentation with most Klipsch speakers.  If you're interested in this possibility, come on over to the "Talkin' Tubes" section where there's an abundance of info on this subject.

 

Maynard

I totally agree.  I heard a 1 watt SET amp drive a set of La Scala's and it was pure bliss.  I think that is the direction that I want to head in the future but for now anyway solid state is what I have to work with.  Will definitely check out the tube section on the forum though.

[creeve]

Interesting, I figured a quality amp would actually bring out the better in speakers? It's all about the synergy between the gear and speakers I guess

+1 on that Derrickdj1. This new "Reference" line may not be as good as its big brothers in certain ways, but that doesn't mean they don't perform well...which they do. I've only had the R-26s for a couple of weeks now, and they "do so many things right " as Chris put it . They're not even broke-in yet.

Speaking of that Chris, another possibility in your situation could be that your R-26s are fully broken-in yet ( even though they were pre-owned ).

Also, your listening space can impact your sound too...which you probably already know lol. Sorry for sounding redundant.

I think my ears need some breaking in LOL.  I am finding the tradeoff here.  These are much more detailed than my other speakers that I mentioned and I am starting to focus on that more and more which in turn is making the harshness a bit less annoying if you know what I mean.  I am going to give it some more time and see how it goes.  I watched a video about damping the plastic horn with a dynamat type material helps, this was done on a set of RF-7's so I may try that because it can just be peeled off it I don't like what it does.

[Jim]

1 year ago I was where you are at right now with my speakers. I also added in a CLASS A SET amp and found it was much nicer. My cost? $259.00 with shipping from China. Fast forward to today, I have that same amp getting a few "upgrades" for less than I paid with shipping, and still have the speakers as well. If you want to get into tubes on the ground level, it's not a bad start.

 

Maynard is definitely someone who can help with tubes and questions you may have. There several others who are very helpful as well. Especially if you get into near field listening.

[creeve]

1 year ago I was where you are at right now with my speakers. I also added in a CLASS A SET amp and found it was much nicer. My cost? $259.00 with shipping from China. Fast forward to today, I have that same amp getting a few "upgrades" for less than I paid with shipping, and still have the speakers as well. If you want to get into tubes on the ground level, it's not a bad start.

 

Maynard is definitely someone who can help with tubes and questions you may have. There several others who are very helpful as well. Especially if you get into near field listening.

Which one did you start out with that was that price?  I have looked at a few el34 and el84 based amps in the 8-12 watt range which is probably more like 4 watts before clipping at 8ohms and they are running about 500 shipped.

[The History Kid]

Don't rag on the Icon line, the Icon V's where Klipsch first venture in big box stores and the speaker did really well. The V series had a flowered type horn which was a little different than the W and X series. These speakers were not any brighter or harsh than some of the higher price reference. I own the entire series and still have the VF 35 tower. They also look much better than what BB and HH greg are selling. They had a nice gloss finish and better looking grills IMHO.

VF-35 != KF-28 of R-26F.

The icon name was used on far too many products with a huge spectrum in SQ.

[Jim]

 

1 year ago I was where you are at right now with my speakers. I also added in a CLASS A SET amp and found it was much nicer. My cost? $259.00 with shipping from China. Fast forward to today, I have that same amp getting a few "upgrades" for less than I paid with shipping, and still have the speakers as well. If you want to get into tubes on the ground level, it's not a bad start.

 

Maynard is definitely someone who can help with tubes and questions you may have. There several others who are very helpful as well. Especially if you get into near field listening.

Which one did you start out with that was that price?  I have looked at a few el34 and el84 based amps in the 8-12 watt range which is probably more like 4 watts before clipping at 8ohms and they are running about 500 shipped.

 

 

AIQIN Audio (DOUK AUDIO) on Ebay, they have their amps there as DIY or built, you just have to look real good to find one.  After I purchased it, I bought different tubes to try (NOS) and although highly debatable on SQ, some NOS  are more durable than some of the newer ones. Up until last week I was going to sell mine to "upgrade", but a member on here is rewiring it and adding in better caps and resistors. So I am most likely going to keep it for a long time now. If I feel like adding in more components, I just add in an audio switch and push a button for what I want.

 

I also purchased an integrated tube amp (Yaqin MC-10L) that I use for times when I really want it loud, used on Ebay for $350.00 shipped (used).They get good reviews and Derrick above has a similar one and can comment on his as well. It has 4 inputs for my turntables, digital (cd, external hard drive on computer), and cassette when I feel like adding it in. With the integrated amp I just add on a phono pre (2-Cambridge Audio 551-P, and a Yaqin MS-23B Tube phono pre) for my turntables as it doesn't have a designated phono out.

 

Once I got the bug for tube amps, it wasn't complete until I got a vintage amp. I have a Sansui AU-70 Integrated that is going to be restored as well.It has the designated phono pre out.

 

Once the Sansui is done I may consider selling the Yaqin as I will not have the room for it anymore. But the CLASS A SET is going to be used for all my critical listening. The depth and width of the sound stage and 3D effect it gives off is something that has to be heard in order to appreciate it. If you can find someone local to you to preview one I'd recommend it. Some on here may even open their doors for you if you post.

 

There is a member and post on here with someone who is using the KF-28's with a tube amp and is in listening bliss. Maynard may be able to help with who the member is, or search it in the tubes section. I can also affirm how nice they sound with tubes. They really open up nicely.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Jim

[creeve]

 

 

1 year ago I was where you are at right now with my speakers. I also added in a CLASS A SET amp and found it was much nicer. My cost? $259.00 with shipping from China. Fast forward to today, I have that same amp getting a few "upgrades" for less than I paid with shipping, and still have the speakers as well. If you want to get into tubes on the ground level, it's not a bad start.

 

Maynard is definitely someone who can help with tubes and questions you may have. There several others who are very helpful as well. Especially if you get into near field listening.

Which one did you start out with that was that price?  I have looked at a few el34 and el84 based amps in the 8-12 watt range which is probably more like 4 watts before clipping at 8ohms and they are running about 500 shipped.

 

 

AIQIN Audio (DOUK AUDIO) on Ebay, they have their amps there as DIY or built, you just have to look real good to find one.  After I purchased it, I bought different tubes to try (NOS) and although highly debatable on SQ, some NOS  are more durable than some of the newer ones. Up until last week I was going to sell mine to "upgrade", but a member on here is rewiring it and adding in better caps and resistors. So I am most likely going to keep it for a long time now. If I feel like adding in more components, I just add in an audio switch and push a button for what I want.

 

I also purchased an integrated tube amp (Yaqin MC-10L) that I use for times when I really want it loud, used on Ebay for $350.00 shipped (used).They get good reviews and Derrick above has a similar one and can comment on his as well. It has 4 inputs for my turntables, digital (cd, external hard drive on computer), and cassette when I feel like adding it in. With the integrated amp I just add on a phono pre (2-Cambridge Audio 551-P, and a Yaqin MS-23B Tube phono pre) for my turntables as it doesn't have a designated phono out.

 

Once I got the bug for tube amps, it wasn't complete until I got a vintage amp. I have a Sansui AU-70 Integrated that is going to be restored as well.It has the designated phono pre out.

 

Once the Sansui is done I may consider selling the Yaqin as I will not have the room for it anymore. But the CLASS A SET is going to be used for all my critical listening. The depth and width of the sound stage and 3D effect it gives off is something that has to be heard in order to appreciate it. If you can find someone local to you to preview one I'd recommend it. Some on here may even open their doors for you if you post.

 

There is a member and post on here with someone who is using the KF-28's with a tube amp and is in listening bliss. Maynard may be able to help with who the member is, or search it in the tubes section. I can also affirm how nice they sound with tubes. They really open up nicely.

 

Good info thanks much.  I have the MS23b and I think its the best bang for the buck tube phono stage out there.  I rolled in some JJ ecc83s balanced and matched and I couldn't be happier with it.  Looks like its time to start saving up some cash, I see a tube amp in the near future 

[Jim]

Good info thanks much. I have the MS23b and I think its the best bang for the buck tube phono stage out there. I rolled in some JJ ecc83s balanced and matched and I couldn't be happier with it. Looks like its time to start saving up some cash, I see a tube amp in the near future

 

If you'd like to get the entry level, I'd get one that is DIY, not put it together, and let someone on here put it together for you. It will be well under $500.00 when done and better than most amps out there as they can change out the stock caps and resistors. I am waiting for mine to get finished and shipped back to "announce" the person(s) who did the work on it from schematics to rewiring. . There is already a thread on it under my name if you look.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Jim

[derrickdj1]

One thing that I found to tame the horn a bit was not directing the speaker/horn to converge at MLP.  Aiming the horn to the shoulders or slightly behind the MLP or have then converge in front of the MLP helped and it's free.  I personally don't aim any of the horn speaker directly at me including surround.

Edited December 15, 2015 by derrickdj1

[creeve]

 

 

 

1 year ago I was where you are at right now with my speakers. I also added in a CLASS A SET amp and found it was much nicer. My cost? $259.00 with shipping from China. Fast forward to today, I have that same amp getting a few "upgrades" for less than I paid with shipping, and still have the speakers as well. If you want to get into tubes on the ground level, it's not a bad start.

 

Maynard is definitely someone who can help with tubes and questions you may have. There several others who are very helpful as well. Especially if you get into near field listening.

Which one did you start out with that was that price?  I have looked at a few el34 and el84 based amps in the 8-12 watt range which is probably more like 4 watts before clipping at 8ohms and they are running about 500 shipped.

 

 

AIQIN Audio (DOUK AUDIO) on Ebay, they have their amps there as DIY or built, you just have to look real good to find one.  After I purchased it, I bought different tubes to try (NOS) and although highly debatable on SQ, some NOS  are more durable than some of the newer ones. Up until last week I was going to sell mine to "upgrade", but a member on here is rewiring it and adding in better caps and resistors. So I am most likely going to keep it for a long time now. If I feel like adding in more components, I just add in an audio switch and push a button for what I want.

 

I also purchased an integrated tube amp (Yaqin MC-10L) that I use for times when I really want it loud, used on Ebay for $350.00 shipped (used).They get good reviews and Derrick above has a similar one and can comment on his as well. It has 4 inputs for my turntables, digital (cd, external hard drive on computer), and cassette when I feel like adding it in. With the integrated amp I just add on a phono pre (2-Cambridge Audio 551-P, and a Yaqin MS-23B Tube phono pre) for my turntables as it doesn't have a designated phono out.

 

Once I got the bug for tube amps, it wasn't complete until I got a vintage amp. I have a Sansui AU-70 Integrated that is going to be restored as well.It has the designated phono pre out.

 

Once the Sansui is done I may consider selling the Yaqin as I will not have the room for it anymore. But the CLASS A SET is going to be used for all my critical listening. The depth and width of the sound stage and 3D effect it gives off is something that has to be heard in order to appreciate it. If you can find someone local to you to preview one I'd recommend it. Some on here may even open their doors for you if you post.

 

There is a member and post on here with someone who is using the KF-28's with a tube amp and is in listening bliss. Maynard may be able to help with who the member is, or search it in the tubes section. I can also affirm how nice they sound with tubes. They really open up nicely.

 

Good info thanks much.  I have the MS23b and I think its the best bang for the buck tube phono stage out there.  I rolled in some JJ ecc83s balanced and matched and I couldn't be happier with it.  Looks like its time to start saving up some cash, I see a tube amp in the near future 

 

Right on with the kit.  I think that will be the most cost effective way to get into the game.  As far as assembly, I am a DIY kind of guy and have an electronics background so that's no issue at all.  When you get yours back I would be interested in the mods made to it and how it improved the sound for you.