Fordman Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Im a little confused.I watched T2 SE last night and there are 3 surround settings: 5.1 EX 5.1 DTS ES Dolby Surround I watched it in 5.1 es dts and it utlized the center surrond.After the movie I was playing around alittle and tried the 5.1 ex.Now I thought this also used the center surround but I didnt get any sound from it at all.I tried everyting but nothing worked. Then I tried LOTR and still nothing.Am I wrong about EX or am I doing something wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Fordman- I wouldn't call DTS ES as a 5.1 system, tis actually a 6.1 system. It adds information on another channel for a "Center rear" speaker. A description of several ES formats can be found @ DTS-ES For a description of most of the surround formats look at this link -Dave ------------------ Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted September 1, 2002 Author Share Posted September 1, 2002 Thats a great site for explaining things,but heres my problem.What is exactly is "matrix".On 5.1 EX should there be sound out of the rear center or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 THX-EX, DD-EX, and DTS-ES are 6.1/7.1 formats, not 5.1. 5.1 is just standard DTS/DD. On a DTS-ES/DD-EX DVD, you SHOULD have sound out of your center, since it will be 6.1. On a 5.1 encoded DVD, you will NOT get sound unless your receiver has a matrixing program that can create a false rear center for you. That goes the same with 7.1- the receiver matrixes (mixes) the surrounds to create the back surround. Just a note, DTS-ES is DISCRETE 6.1- THX-EX/DD-EX is MATRIXED 6.1/7.1. ------------------ SoundWise / ProMedia Tech Support / 1-888-554-5665s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig6519 Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 Fordman, It depends on your reciever, does It suport both DTS ES and DD EX? Mine H/K only supports DTS ES, not DD ES. I believe matrix will only work If It actually does support DD EX for example so you can make normal 5.1 DVD 6.1, but only IF IT has DD EX. Anybody else want to buzz IN and let me know If I'm correct? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted September 1, 2002 Author Share Posted September 1, 2002 My reciever is a Onkyo TSX-600.It has 6.1 DTS es and DD EX.I tried evryting and could get no sound, but only on the EX.It works fine on DTS ES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLUngurait Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 I have some confusion on this issue as well. I was under the impression that "EX" and "ES" were 6.1 and 7.1 formats. On my DVD of LOTR under sound set-up...the top choice is "5.1 Dolby Digital EX Surround Sound"...is this possible? If the mixer is not seperating a channel for rear xenter...is there any difference between DD and DD EX? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 1, 2002 Share Posted September 1, 2002 DD ex encoded discs piggyback the matrixed rear surround/effects info on the surround channels. if you have a dd ex decoder receiver/prepro it'll decode it as designed. as far as i know, they call it 7.1, but you can use just 1 rear sur speaker. they may vary the 2 matrixed rear surround channels, but i think its just the same info whether you use 1 or 2 speakers. as for dts es, if it doesn't say dts es 6.1 discrete, then its dts es 6.1 matrix. believe the same process as dolby - w/ the mixer using rear surround info matrixed from the surround material. dts es 6.1 discrete has a discrete rear sur channel. you have to have this specific decoder to get a discrete rear center channel. haven't got that yet on my prepro - still waiting for that upgrade. also, es discrete material is still scarce. "the haunting" was the 1st redone in this format. dts has a link for their disks & whether dts es matrix or discrete. as said, if your processor is capable, it'll decode a matrixed rear center from even 5.1, dolby surround, or stereo encoded material. ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 09-01-2002 at 03:08 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 I appreciate everyones input,but I dont think I ve had my question answered yet.I understand 6.1 discrete,but what I need to know is if I should get sound from my rear center in DD EX.I dont care if its matrix or discrete,Im not getting anything from my center in DD EX.Can someone try a 5.1 EX dvd on a EX capable reciever and see if you get any sound from the rear center.I want to make sure there is nothing wrong with my rec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPyro Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 Fordman- the simple answer is YES, you should be getting sound out of the center rear channel only IF your receiver supports the format. What reciever do you have? (I don't have a center rear channel, so i can't speak from first hand knowledge) -Dave ------------------ Home Theater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 Thanks for the straight answer.I have an Onkyo TS-x600.Its a 6.1 reciever with 80x6.It supports DD,DD EX,DTS,DTS ES.Ive tried a couple of discs with no luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 dts es is the superior format anyway imho. but that's odd that you get nothing w/ dolby ex. could be either the mix on certain discs or your ex decoder is messed up. might want to check settings too. w/ my prepro you need a certain setting to get ex decoding. read the onkyo manual yet? ------------------ My Home Systems Page This message has been edited by boa12 on 09-02-2002 at 03:24 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordman Posted September 2, 2002 Author Share Posted September 2, 2002 Yeah I read it but it was no help.I tried everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 2, 2002 Share Posted September 2, 2002 I just tried a few DVD's. Not all 5.1 mixed DVD's will allow your processor to mix a 6.1 matrixed rear center channel. The DVD U571 will let your processor in DD mode to play a matrixed rear center channel. Try that movie. I have a choice in my processor set up for 6.1 ex and es. The choice is auto select, or manual select. The auto setting will of course let the processor play the (6) in the 6.1, when a 6.1 disc is read. The Manual setting makes you turn it on and off. I have mine set on auto. On my remote I also have a 6.1 button. This button allows me to turn on or off the matrixed rear center channel on 5.1 disc. As I said, it doesn't work on all 5.1 mixed DVD's. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 q, i get rear center output matrixed from the surround channels on any 5.1 disk. 2.0 too. as long as there's surround output. so it must depend on the design or capability of the dsp on the receiver or prepro. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Boa, I'll have to try it again tonight. Actually I only tried four different 5.1 DVD's, and one didn't seem to give me any output in the rear center. Maybe I did something wrong. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 q, yea it should put out a mono mix to the rear center for when you do 2 channel stuff on the 6 speaker/stereo mode too. even on the DD 2.0 w/ prologic decoding from the likes of digital cable, the majority of the surround info comes from my rear center, that is if it has surround info. just like the front center w/ 2.0/prologic when most info usually comes from there. that's because when the dsp does the processing, it takes the common mono info from whatever channels, FR&FL or SR&SL, & puts it out to center. & the majority of movies it seems have mostly mono info except for the effects type sounds. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 Boa, I stand corrected. I must of made a mistake . All the 5.1 DVD's I tried tonight did give me a matrixed rear center when I turned on the 6.1. On the other hand, 2.0 or stereo CD's will not produce a matrixed rear center no matter what DSP mode I choose, except for 8 channel stereo. Yamaha calls it 8 channel because it also uses the two front effect channels. I don't ever use the 8 channel mode because it adds way too much volume to the rear speakers. From my listening position the rears will now drown out the mains and front center. I'll have to try turning down the volume for the rear speakers when using the 8 channel mode and give it a serious listening to. I know that I'm getting off of the subject, but I now use two different volume setting for the rear speakers. I have one setting for movies & DVD's and another for CD's. For movies I use the standard set up. This being that the volume from every speaker is set to the same db level on a sound level meter from the main listenig position. I find this works very well. For CD's I have two favorite DSP modes that I always use. I always felt that the modes sound nice and enhance the music, but that they wern't loud enought. So, I now turn up all my rear speakers by 5 db for CD music and back down for movies. Don't get me wrong. Even though I turn up the rears for CD'c ,they are still lower then my mains and front center. I respect all the two channel guys on this board, and know where they are coming from with their tubes, but I just can't listen to 2 channel anymore. Two channel just seems too empty. I think that you with your B&K and I with my McIntosh are tryng to achieve a simular tube like sound for our home theaters. The sound may not be quite as good, but it has other advantages. Q. Q. ------------------ Q-Man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted September 3, 2002 Share Posted September 3, 2002 q, yes b&k & mac are a great sound w/ klipsch. "On the other hand, 2.0 or stereo CD's will not produce a matrixed rear center no matter what DSP mode I choose, except for 8 channel stereo." not from 2-channel cds, but you should get rear center output from dolby surround or DD 2.0 material that has surround info flagged into it. this is the stuff that should light up your prologic decoder. like if you have digital cable or dss w/ a digital connection & on those stations w/ dolby digital sound. i have TW digital cable w/ a coax dig connection from the box to the prepro. most movies are still in DD 2.0 though more & more are coming out in DD 5.1. but for those 2.0 movies that have the surround info encoded my prologic decoder will put out to the rear center. yours should too. on this 2.0 stuff, my dsp seems to put out even more to the rear center than the surround speaks. makes for some good front-back panning effects. but maybe some dsp differ on how they handle prologic, though would think it'd be a pretty similar program. ------------------ My Home Systems Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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