RSW 15 or SVS 20-39 pc+

[johnny24c]

Wow............All of this structual talk is cool and all, but what I like about posting questions here is that even though this is a KLIPSCH board, alot of the guys here have heard and tested alot of products that I don't have access to or couldn't afford to try. Some of my purchases are based soley on these opinions, not just a few but many. and when several experienced audiofile types agree on something. it is usually a safe bet to at least try. so far EVERY piece of equiptment I am listning to I love.

Denon 3802, Klipsch RF7's and RC7 . Klipsch in rear and Klipsch sub and just got a bug to upgrade subs.

enclosers, specs and db levels arn't as solid to me as when some one has actually heard and compared these side by side or owned them . I appreciate all opinions, good or bad............keep them comming thanks.

[jonesey]

I stand by my words about it being a structural compromise. A good and knowledgable structural engineer would express concerns about integrity of the structure because the cylinder needs to be cut to hold the amp (you are not going to have the amp sticking way out of the cylinder duh).

[jonesey]

How about trying an RSW-15 and if you aren't 100% satisfied, try something else (like Earthquake Supernova subs).

[TheEAR]

Well well I see more wars of words

First things first

Like Dustin said

"Properly done, mounting a plate amp to a tube style sub will in no way compromise the integrity of the tube enough to affect performance."

Very true,when you cut a hole in a cylinder structure you do compromise the structural integrity.But like Dusty said not enough to compromise in any audible way the sound in this case.And Like ole TV said when you add a plate amp,the metal plate will negate the most of the lost structural integrity.

After all Tom and Co. from SVS and Dr.Hsu from HSU Research are using giant toilet paper rolls to make subs! LOL And these giant toilet paper rolls deliver high quality sub bass and plenty of it for toilet paper prices! Is this not wonderful?

Come on give the guys a break here.

Being "cardboard" however these tubes do not match the materials used by Krell for the MRS.DUH at 35 grand it is to be expected.

A toilet paper tube will not even be close to a thick aluminium braced cabinet(Krell).But when you do the math you get a huge value with HSU or SVS.

With no question Krell has the most sturdy cabinets made,bar none.Even more super duty and bulletproof then Wilson Audio!Talk about structural integrity.

You could probably drive a large battle tank on the Krell and just have a few deeper scratches,try this with any of your subs(SVS,HSU,Sunfire,Klipsch,JBL,Aerial,Wilson(yes even Wilson!)Revel,well anything)you would have a mashed thin pile of dirt.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[jonesey]

All we have to go on is a owner/marketer who says that cutting a hole into his product for the amp makes no difference. I still don't buy it. The PCi has ok output, but still left something to be desired with sound quality and I wonder how much this has to do with the structural concerns of the built-in amp. I agree about the toilet tubes, but least Dr. H offers his VTF-3 and VTF-2 that does not belong in the bathroom with the other toilet paper rolls.

This message has been edited by jonesey on 09-09-2002 at 09:59 PM

[TVodhanel]

>>>All we have to go on is a owner/marketer who says that cutting a hole into his product for the amp makes no difference.<<<

Actually no, *jonesey*. We also have a 2+ year track record with thousands of these enclosures in the field. There is NOT a single instance of any enclosure integrity compromise causing ANY type of problem in the history of our powered cylinders. Anyone sincerely interested in the facts in this matter can do a simple internet search to bring up (literally) hundreds of reviews from completely satisfied PC and PCi owners(check with audioreview for example). Our PC models have been reviewed by various professionals in the A/V field(all the links are available on the svs site of course).

The only compromise is the Ql issue from the inherent blowby associated with all the controls on the amp itself. ALL subwoofers suffer thru this to varying degrees and it has nothing to do with the enclosure shape,size or construction.

I am sorry this thread is sidetracked too and apologize for my part in it. I am very thankful that Klipsch will permit me to defend the truth when their board is hijacked to spread MIS-information about another product.

TV

[Mike Lindsey]

Hey Tom, don't sweat it... this guy Jonesy is a Troll. I think he's the same guy that started the Hsu VTF-2 thread (under a different name). He doesn't even have the balls to show his Email address in his profile. Don't waste your time on him. I know I won't...

Mike

[TheEAR]

Wait! Wait!

I have an idea,first we had regular toilet paper rolls,after came the Jumbo double rolls and now TV and TheEAR introduce the patented Ultra roll!

A toilet paper all TP lovers will love!The Ultra is just as soft and has a bit more definition,goes deeper too!

No subs were harmed by the introduction of the Ultra roll.

TheEAR(s) Now theears

This message has been edited by TheEAR on 09-09-2002 at 10:49 PM

[TVodhanel]

>>>Hey Tom, don't sweat it... this guy Jonesy is a Troll. I think he's the same guy that started the Hsu VTF-2 thread (under a different name). He doesn't even have the balls to show his Email address in his profile. Don't waste your time on him. I know I won't...

Mike<<<

Hi Mike,

Yes, I shouldn't have bothered to begin with. I'll remember to take this advice in the future,,thanks!

>>>I have an idea,first we had regular toilet paper rolls,after came the Jumbo double rolls and now TV and TheEAR introduce the patented Ultra roll!A toilet paper all TP lovers will love!The Ultra is just as soft and has a bit more definition,goes deeper too!<<<

You could even have a built in 7hz test tone with it...just fire it up and no need to buy xlax ever again?

TV

[jonesey]

TMarketer,

That is more marketing BS from you. BOSE could claim the same thing, their speakers and subwoofers holding up, still working after years of playing, and satisfying thousands of customers. A built-in amp for a cylinder tube will hold together. What this does to sound quality is my concern.

[hwatkins]

Too much fun for me to stay away.

Jonesey - You are a piece of work. Heck if I or others care about your reluctance to evaluate the sound and concentrate on structural integity of adding a plate to a cylinder. Trust this engineer (dare I call my self a good engineer?) when he says that the compromises made by this modification to the cylunder can be wonderfully offset by how that plate interacts to create the sound.

You cannot have severe reservations about the sound quality of either the SV or RSW if you have listened to both. A preference yes, but nothing of the level that you profess.

However, regardless of your infuriating lack of knowledge and baseless claims, you offered a great piece of advice - Try them on for size and see which one you like best. I think that others have already given their honest appraisal.

Lastly - Jonesey, please do not return with the worn out line that I 'may' be attacking your integrity. Truthfully, you are either inept at judging sound (or engineering for that matter) or blatantly misdirecting (dare I say lying?) this thread. I hope you are the latter because niave folks are just downright hard to fix...

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Hwatkins

[jonesey]

hwhatkins,

Your post exposes you as knowing little with regards to structural engineering, and also you as a bad reader. Remember that I have listened to a PCi sub and it was not my cup of tea. I like the sound of the RSW subs. Maybe that is not appropriate for me to say, this being a damn KLIPSCH forum and all. And also remember that I said a good and knowledgable structural engineer will not want to cut a hole in a cylider. Maybe you think it is some wonderful thing, good for you. I don't. My opinion. If you are going to try to find fault with people's opinions, then good luck because you will just be running around in circles.

[TVodhanel]

just glanced at the date on my puter, and suddenly realized replying to this troll isn't worth my time...way to many more important things to reflect upon.

TV

This message has been edited by TVodhanel on 09-11-2002 at 01:17 AM

[TVodhanel]

This message has been edited by TVodhanel on 09-11-2002 at 01:18 AM

[Mike Lindsey]

Jonesey,

Your opinion is baseless and has done nothing to prove anything one way or the other. Please share with us why cutting a hole in the cylinder would cause structural damage. This may be your opinion, but if you can't back it up with anything, all your doing is spreading false rumors. Please elaborate...

Mike

[hwatkins]

Jonesey

My sincerest apologies for appearing to find faults in your opinions.

Let's be clear, I find fault in your evangelistic engineering (faith in an unseen thing) and I clearly believe that you have not listened closely to either of the subs mentioned. "Not my cup of tea" would be hard to apply to either of these quality products.

My last word here - this is a wonderful Klipsch board and full of intelligent and thoughtful people that give me and others excellent advice regardless of the product. Folks rarely come here with baseless claims and generally place opinions where substantial subjectivity is required (your SVS is ugly comment is definitely an opinion point - notice nobody said lots about that comment). You should expect to get handled rudely here.

good luck on this thread...

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Hwatkins

[Colin]

I certainly appreciate TVs input and I am quite pleased that Klipsch even allows him to make any comments at all on their board more kudos to them! The fact of the matter is that both the Klipsch and the SVS tubes are great, albeit different, choices for active bass sub-woofers.

In his excellent product review last year for Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity -- Subwoofers under the Christmas Tree (December, 2001) -- Brian Weatherhead coined a new measurement for subs. His Shake Value ranks the sub output at just the hard to reach 20-Hz frequency. On his scale, loudness at 70-dB is one point (1) and every 10 dB above that adds another point. The rating means every additional point is twice as loud as the previous point. It's a simple, but easy, gauge for comparing how much rumble and punch a sub will give you. (Go to: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html.)

On his shake scale, for example, the Klipsch RSW-15 rates an above average 2.4, with the legendary Velodyne HGS-18 scoring an extraordinary 3.1. The large SVS CS-Ultra tubes score an impressive 3.9 points. (The outrageous $28,000 Krell Master Reference subs trounces all of them - and by several lengths. With tremendous 120-dB output in the 20-Hz basement, the monster rumble chest leaps over the rest of the pack with an incredible 5.0 performance.)

The article shows that compared to the depth of the SVS tubes, which even Klipschs big old horns - with their bass reach down to 40 and 30-Hz - could use, the RSW subs do have mid-bass punch. Having heard the SVS tubes, I prefer the punch. Adding power behind a dedicated driver adds more drama to percussive instruments, like drums and gunshots, than low rumbling does.

BTW, dividing the shake value by the price gives you an idea of how much punch you are getting at the 20-Hz depth. It gives you a punch/price, or cost/performance ratio. In this regard, the SVS tubes (which sit out of sight in a corner) and the Klipsch subs both score remarkably well, compared to many other subs sold in the marketplace, with the edge going to the direct-to-consumer SVS offerings.

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Colin's Music System Ak-2 Khorns & Klipsch subs; lights out, tubes glowing & smile beaming!

[TheEAR]

Colin,

At last you show up here!

"On his shake scale, for example, the Klipsch RSW-15 rates an above average 2.4, with the legendary Velodyne HGS-18 scoring an extraordinary 3.1. The large SVS CS-Ultra tubes score an impressive 3.9 points. (The outrageous $28,000 Krell Master Reference subs trounces all of them - and by several lengths. With tremendous 120-dB output in the 20-Hz basement, the monster rumble chest leaps over the rest of the pack with an incredible 5.0 performance.)"

I know you posted a few good months back about the Krell on AudioReview.com and gave 1/5 for performance and 1/5 for value.Now about value I agree since the Krell MRS is too damn expensive by ANY standard.

But give me a break,1/5 for performance!You must have been smoking weed and snifing hot crazy glue with high octane gasoline.

The Krell MRS is THE benchmark for measuring single sub units.And it deserves 1/5 for performance! BS yes bull $hit.

If I follow your logic then my Krell FPB600 is also a pathetic product bested by even a lowly Yamaha amp right? Sure my Krell whoops all solid state amps 99.9% audiophiles have.99.9% and no less

There is not a speaker capable of giving the FPB series trouble,on any kind.The FPB600 can toast any Klipsch speakers with pure undistorted power,no trash can clipping.As its easy to damage speakers with a weakling distorting amp.

Out of line,yes and no.Since you went and dug for the Krell MRS.

Bottom line you may not aprove Krell pricing but you have to admit Krell makes serious audio products,and the finest mega amps(alongside Boulder and Goldmund).

TheEAR(s) Now theears

[jonesey]

hwhatkins,

I can see from your second reply that you still don't have a clue, unless you are naively suggesting that everyone share you opinion about what sounds good and what is right and what is wrong. You are certainly doing a good job of running around in circles. I have heard the PCi and RSW subs, and sorry but the PCi is not my cup of tea for sound and looks. I do like the RSW's though.

[jonesey]

TheEAR,

that is the typical review that is not thought out. Anyone who can afford the Krell will easily take it over others, boxes and toilet paper roll subs alike. The Krell is like a Ferrari, who would not want it if they could afford it.