Finally a Working EICO to listen Too !!!

[NOSValves]

Well Paul here from the Klipsch forum sent me his mono intergrated HF-12's to go thru last week and I have actually got to listen to them but not in Optimal setup yet although I did install all known good tubes from my collection for this audition. My first impressions are they sound great !! The built in preamp section of one of the pair is not up to snuff and has very low output. So I pulled my trusting Dynaco Pas 3 out from the storage shelf and plugged in some top notch Telefunken 12AX7's and gave the EICO's some life. They put out some serious volume that is for sure. In my opinion they sound very much like a Scott after I'm done with them as for as the amp section. Time will tell on the preamp and phono section. What I found real funny and might be a clue to why I found Tim's HF-81 to be bright as all get out at the chicago horn club meeting is that when powering it all up with the Pas 3 as preamp duties the little HF-12 were extremely bright to the point where you thought man something is wrong as hell. By themselves using the built in preamps they were warm sounding but one channel just has way lower gain. So I started playing with the bass and treble setting on the preamp and got it to sound real nice. Weird huh !! wonder if this is a weird by product of using the tape out as a way to eleminate the preamp section and use it as a power amp ?? I'm going to hook the Pas 3 up to one of my other amps here on a few and see if there is something amiss there but I don't think there will be. I just rebuilt it and tested it out before shelving it waiting for mono blocks (LoneLobo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hint hint) . But to put a long story and battle to rest I'm impressed that they can sound this good in there current state !!

Craig

[NOSValves]

Update I confirmed that the Pas 3 works fine no tone control adjustment needed with other amps. Kind of weird. I also pulled the bottom cover off the units and started to compare the 2 units someone has done tons a part changes on one while the other is bone stock. The funny thing is the one with all the work is the one that doesn't work properly. This is a good clue as to why you don't want to buy amps modified by questionable sources !! But I started comparing and found the first error in the tech's work. He had the .25 MFD orange drop soldered to pin 2 of V2 12AX7 when it should be a Pin 1 LOL !! Well now the worked on one sounds much better but still has slightly less output. So far though I think the amps sound better and more detailed thru the Pas 3. But this doesn't mean much since I spent hours making the Pas 3 work perfect !!

Tell you one thing is for sure when someone has worked on a amp it sure makes it easier to find his/her errors when you have another bone stock unit sitting there to compare it too !! No digging thru a schematic to see where the error is I love it.

Craig

[mike stehr]

Yup!

[blindman]

I agree wholeheartedly about the advantage of keeping a bone stock unit while replacing the capacitors and resistors in another unit.

While I do have the schematics, I bought two HF 81's precisely so I could ponder one while rebuilding the other.

Plus, it was a quick and easy way to get some spare tubes.

[DizRotus]

The next best thing to having a stock unit as a model is to take plenty of photos (digital cameras are great for this) of the unit before beginning the modifications. Whether electronics, cars or garbage disposers, what I thought I'd rememeber as it was coming apart, and what I actually remember after six trips out for necessary stuff, is never the same.

[NOSValves]

Yup !! I consider my Fuji digital camera my most important tool to work on this amps

[NOSValves]

Mobile thought you might of missed this one too !!

[mobile homeless]

Hey, I DID miss this; I was gone all last weekend. Craig, glad you got to have a good experience with something EICO! I think you hit on something here as well as I found the same thing with all the EICO's I have messed with; they sound less palatable being driven from the tape outs; I think it's from a combonation of the wiring and the lack of interconnects and component synergy. I tend to always like integrateds being used as a whole regardless of tube or solid state. Still, I think you are probably hitting on something with the wiring as well. The sound is lacking a little body, even from this end as well.

Of course, one thing you need to think about. The bone stock unit was wired by someone as well and there is no gurantee that they did the job right either. So a good schematic is always the final saving grace. But I agree; it is great to have two units side by side to compare. I have two HF-81 and even though they are wired the same, there are different parts and they DO sound different.

Anyway, at least glad you got a chance to have some good luck with the EICO name. IF anyone has noticed, all the EICO pricing has come back to Earth like it should lately. There have also been a plethora of Fisher units on Audiogon as well as a pretty cheap Scott LK-48 on ebay. It's a great time for vintage tube gear! Hell, it's a great time for tube gear in general!

[NOSValves]

Mobile,

Yea they seem to sound pretty good in there current state some distortion at higher volumes compared to my Scotts but they havn't been repaired yet. Paul the owner has a HF-81 also. He had Bizzy Bee in chicago do that one and wants these done the same. Wish he would just let me go hog wild !! One thing I notice from the pictures that he sent me of the HF-81 is that Bizzy Bee made the same mistake Pland did with Tim's amp. He used Auri caps and replaced the 4 Black caps in the preamp section with the high dollar caps and not the output coupling caps with the $ caps LOL !! I have to talk to paul and see if I can convince him into just letting me do the entire amp with my paper in Oils. I bet the thing would sound awesome with them. He's concerned that it may sound different the his HF-81 because he may use these amps later to power Multi channel home theater or SACD or something. What do you think ?? I personally don't think they would throw things that far out of wack on a multi channel setup. I bet he would have me recapp the HF-81 after he herd the difference

Craig

[NOSValves]

Mobile no comment on this ??

[mobile homeless]

Ummmm... I need to hear these vintage oils first. Many are saying the older vintage oils are very smooth and sweet, but lack some of the quickness, snap, and articulation of something like the Auricaps. As you remember, this is what I wanted to try out next but we never got around to doing it. From all the guys I have talked to including my DIY friends, the Audio Note or Jensen Copper Foils sound a lot cleaner and more open/dynamic than the vintage oils. Too bad about the expense, although Angela has them for cheaper (under their name). Also, the Copper Foils are MUCH bigger and wouldnt fit, even if you wanted them to without a mod to the bottom.

But I would like to try those vintage oils to see the difference. My general take on the matter would be that if putting over two in the signal path, they would have to be VERY good oils. And for all practical purposes, all the oils just arent equal. I know that the guys that have tried the Aluminum Foil Oils say the Copper foils are MUCH better. Anyway, this is probably a moot point as neither would fit with the bottom on.

One thing you dont want is for the amp to slow down to much; what I mean by this is to lose too much snap and rhythmic speed. This is one difference with almost ALL the oils; the amps dont have quite the transiant snap of HQ film/foil caps. But those same film/foil caps add some artificial brightness and hyped detail in my book. I have not heard the mega buck stuff like the Exotica etc. That is getting too expensive to test for my blood.

So I would like to hear those oils.

Another thing I would REALLY like to do is put OIL CAPS in the POWER SUPPLY! I have heard REALLY good comments here over HQ electrolytics and solens etc. Oils apparently do an excellent job in the power supply spot but I have just not had a chance to hear them. This is what was used in REAL vintage stuff of old. Guys are reporting VERY good things from all types of gear. They are BIIIIIGGG unfortunately, and would have to go on top. Neat looking though.

kh