Al Klappenberger Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Mike or Q, I'm courious about the Cobraflex horns. I have never heard of these. Can somebody give me some information about them or a web page describing them. How about a picture? Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Al, There is a pair for sale right now on eBay (although not mint) at $10 each that has some pics. Here is the link to one... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1385705801 It's hard to believe they sound as good as they do but they do. Q tells me you can buy them new from Parts Express for something like $150/ea. They have a larger version as well for $200 I think... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 9, 2002 Share Posted October 9, 2002 Al---Check the attatchment for Cobraflex, from hifilit.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 9, 2002 Author Share Posted October 9, 2002 Al, I bought them when I built the University Classic bass horn cabinet. They were the midrange horn used in this cabinet. The bass horn is also very impressive, much cleaner and more open then the LaScala. Some like it better then the klipschorn. I thought it was the University T-30 midrange driver that sounded good, after taking it to Mikes,I think it the horn. They normally go for around 60.00 each on ebay. It's a folded horn, if you unfolded it it would be about 27" deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 I'm going to compare the Cobreflex and the K-400 again this weekend. I want to adjust the tap settings on AL's network this time to have an equal volume from both horns. I am also going to see if I can find an 8 to 10 ohm resister at thr Rat Shack to put on the tweeter post like Al recomended. I need to compare it one more time before I start making changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Q and Mike, That horn being folded bothers me. PWK made the statement in his literature that horns having folds were not acceptable for squawker applications. I would think folding it would be a size compromise. If the only compromise is a 6 KHz rolloff, that would be an advantage, expecially for older K55V drivers with the spring-loaded push-on connections. It would help kill the 9 KHz glitch. AL K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 OK....based upon your 'glowing reports'....511B vs Cobraflex.....I immediately went out and scored a pair of these from 'the bay' (before the rest of you drive the price up out of my range!!!). $52 for the pair. As most of you know, I've been a '511B-man' for over 15 years now and absolutely love them. Been praising the wider dispersion for a long time. However, they are not without drawbacks. It's a very 'deep' horn (front to back) and as such, sticks out the back of the Belle considerably. The University piques my interest in this arena. Upon receipt, I'll be looking (or listening) to how the Cobra integrates with the 511B's in my Khorns, if the 'blend' is an additive of the positives or not. Especially where DVD-A is concerned. Hope to have a report soon, they have been enroute since yesterday. Mike - If you like the 511B/K55 combo, you owe it to yourself to give the 511B/SAHF combo an audition. It is (IMHO) even more clear and articulate than the 511b/K55. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted October 10, 2002 Author Share Posted October 10, 2002 Ed, I'll be looking forward to another opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 ---------------- On 10/10/2002 5:26:54 PM edwardre wrote: Mike - If you like the 511B/K55 combo, you owe it to yourself to give the 511B/SAHF combo an audition. It is (IMHO) even more clear and articulate than the 511b/K55. ---------------- Ed, I too will be interested in your opinion of the Cobraflex horns. As for the SAHF driver, is it a direct bolt-on to the 511B or does it need the adaptor just like the K55? Have you tried the Altec 902-8A with the 511B's? Tom Brennan seems to prefer that driver with these horns. Having the ALK's allows me to adjust the tap settings regardless whether the driver is 8 or 16 ohms. Another benefit to owning the ALK's... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Al-The University Cobraflex II, IIB and III are "reflex expansion" type intercom/paging horns. They can be purchased today new from Electro-Voice (recall that EV purchased University). http://www.electrovoice.com/Electrovoice/products.nsf/allpages/066D59279DD6D93886256B96005D4B0A They were developed in the early 50s by University for high volume, voice articulation (paging). The Cobraflex was paired with either the University SA-HF heavy duty industrial paging driver or the University MA-25. The units sold by EV today are ABS plastic, the older University units are aluminum casting. How do they sound? Depends on the music, the amp, the source, etc. BUT they are comparable to the Klipsch mid-horn when using the same compression driver. I looked at these 20+ years ago and I recall that a sweep of the signal generator reveals noticeable linearity problems near the low end of the bandwidth. PS-If you go to the EV site, look to the left sidebar under *Paging Projectors*. The spec sheets are found there. Note also that EV does not publish distortion curves for these units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 John, I agree! The Cobraflex horn looks like something I would expect to see in the hallway of some warehouse used for paging people! I can't see it as a quality audiophile horn. The description on the ElectroVoice site virtually says that. I think the next step forward would be to compare a Tractrix horn to the 511 / 811 Altec horn. That's where I would expect to find the next step forward. Other than the Bruce Edgar salid-bowel horns, I don't know of any though. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted October 10, 2002 Share Posted October 10, 2002 Abe Cohen designed the Cobraflex, he was a sharp cookie. Many of us old hornys had his book. University stuff sounded pretty damn good but never looked as cool as JBL or Altec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Al-If you are looking to go fwd, I would agree with you, the Cobraflex is not where you should look. Also, with the selection of high efficiency direct radiator mid drivers available today horn loading the mid isn't even necessary. I'm putting together an example and will show to some of the members here when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 "I can't see it as a quality audiophile horn." The Di (Q) of the Cobraflex horns is flatter than the Altec 511B from 500hz~6Khz. "Note also that EV does not publish distortion curves for these units." http://www.telex.com/Electrovoice/EVFiles.nsf/0/050ed5f953ff535b86256a09005ff44f/$FILE/1824S-eds.pdf Notice how close the frequency response of the Cobraflex follows the terminate tube? Proof of the smooth Di of this horn. Notice how close the harmonic distortion of the horn follows the terminated tube? It has some problems above 4Khz, but the distortion is 35~40dB down, good place to cross the tweeter. I've made some pretty good sounding spekers with parts like this. The secret is the network. It's great fun to show off these speakers to 'audiophiles', have them ooohing and aaahing over the sound, and then pop the hood (so to speak). "That's a paging horn!" "And a sireen driver!" "And a pizza tweeter" "And you paid how much for that woofer?" ($23 each in 100 lot quantity) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Well it looks like djk hit the nail on the head regarding the Cobraflex. I know nothing of the specs of the horn, but I can tell you it sounded pretty damn good with the ALK Networks and the K55-M driver. I am very happy with the 511B's but during the comparison with Q-Man, the Cobraflex seemed to be a smoother horn imho... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Mike, Interesting! I'll admit that what I DON'T know about horns would write the book, but that Cobraflex sure looks like something to avoid! Wh'da thunk it! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 As I stated earlier it's not a bad horn and it is comparable to the Klipsch mid. I owned a pair of University Classics with the original Cobraflex and I thought they sounded pretty good. But is it a significant difference? I'm not so sure, I no longer have a set to play with anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 I don't know, guys... my ears may not be as good as yours but they seemed to sound better than the 511B's and much better than the K400. Bear in mind, we had the tweeter and the woofer disconnected when we were listening to them. Now that I have the 511B's hooked up with the K55's, I can't believe how clear these things are. They sound magnificent! I hope I'm done for a while. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Ed, I too will be interested in your opinion of the Cobraflex horns. As for the SAHF driver, is it a direct bolt-on to the 511B or does it need the adaptor just like the K55? Have you tried the Altec 902-8A with the 511B's? Tom Brennan seems to prefer that driver with these horns. ---------------- Mike, the SAHF has the same thread size and pattern as the K55, so an adapter is required. This is another reason that the Cobra is intriguing to me as I've always wondered about adapters and the effect thereof. Some are longer, some have smaller or larger inner diameters, burrs, etc. Just a host of inconsistencies that provide that ongoing slight doubt.....I have not tried the 902-8A with the 511B's. This (correct me if I'm wrong) had appeared to be a 'higher-end' driver costing considerably more than the SAHF or K55s, and thus I would expect it to perform accordingly. Would be interesting to see if others who have made the comparison feel like the improvement is as exponentially positive as the exponential price of the driver. Also very interesting to me were Q's comments about the SVS. I believe that this is the first mention by anyone that I have read that portrayed a SVS in anything but stellar light. Mike, I'd be interested in your opinion of your SVS, and whether it fills your HT needs? I was first 'tipped off' to the Cobraflex by Chris (Mungkiman) who was on the side of 'sounds terrific'. Add to that both Mike and Q's very positive review and now I can't wait to preview it myself. John W has mentioned that there are differences between the original Cobraflex and the II's, III's. The ones I bought are the originals. John....are the originals 'reflex expansion' types too and exactly what does that mean? Mike/Q.....was the Cobraflex you all previewed an 'original', II, IIB, or III? Visually, they all look the same to me. Finally, WRT the 'folded horn' comments/concerns, I too feel that the folded horn looks exceptionally 'utilitarian'. For use as an air-raid siren and other loud, brash, PA type applications. Just the general 'looks' lends itself to non-musicality. Although I still feel that the folded horn style is visually unappealing, the audio perception has been shattered to oblivion. About 9 months ago I received a Cobra 12 horn. This guy looks very similar to the 511B. "Sectoral-type" horn with the folded horn throat (?) visually protruding from within the center almost to the outer edge. It is also of thin, tinney construction and has a built in driver that is non-replaceable with any sort of 'upgrade'. How could this 'thing' have any musical qualities at all? After discovering that the driver could not be replaced, and the 'folded protrusion' unremoveable, it sat in the garage for 6 months unattended. One day on a whim I hooked up this thing, a 4401 tweeter and a 12" University woofer through a Klipsch AA network. I have to state in all honesty that this mid-horn, in all it's unconventional look and construction, was one of the smoothest, most revealing horns I have ever heard. It's currently hooked up to my tube amp in the garage, with the other channel hooked up to a 12" JBL woofer/K400-K55V/K77 combo. The all University package (except for net) BLOWS AWAY the other package in every single catagory. I have never seen another Cobra 12 anywhere, but would ****** one up immediately to make a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 ---------------- On 10/11/2002 1:37:09 PM edwardre wrote: Also very interesting to me were Q's comments about the SVS. I believe that this is the first mention by anyone that I have read that portrayed a SVS in anything but stellar light. Mike, I'd be interested in your opinion of your SVS, and whether it fills your HT needs? ---------------- Ed, I have been very happy with my single 20-39CSi regarding quality of sound but have felt it wasn't giving me enough output on certain DVD-A's. Blue Man Group's Audio DVD-A is a prime example. This is a very bass heavy DVD that clips my amp with the volume at about 100 - 105db. My sub is set to the same level (75db) as the other channels when using the VE DVD to calibrate. I have just been notified by TV however that I need to set the gain on my Samson to 100%. I have always had it 4 clicks from being wide open. When recalibrating all the modes, this equated to 6 db. So I will spend some time listening to some DVD's and give my opinion on this change after a couple of days... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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