oldtimer Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 1 minute ago, dtel said: So cheating goes back a long way. But really some charcoal is not bad, I like the ones that are real pieces of wood and still have some un burned wood in them, I just don't like the perfectly pre formed type. Plus we heat the house with wood and i always have a bunch stacked, no chance of running out plus I'm old and convenience counts. There is only one kind of charcoal. It is natural, I am not and never would refer to the "briquettes" as real charcoal, nor would I recommend or use them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, dtel said: So cheating goes back a long way. If I recall correctly, the innovation was not so much for cheating but that charcoal can reach higher temps than wood alone. The invention of charcoal allowed for the smelting of metal to make tools out of, either for construction, farming, or war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 5, 2018 Author Share Posted July 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Ah, about three fitty. As to the quote, no clue. Most interested in your dry curing experience. Wet curing appears pretty goof proof, even with my limited experience. However, dry curing appears to be a much more challenging situation. As to my current project, went wet due to not having good conditions for dry curing. However, will smoke at about a 100 starting tomorrow or Saturday after pre-pasteurizing the week cured fresh ham. Results coming out of the brine were gorgeous. I've been investigating Peltier units for constructing an inexpensive cabinet to maintain the 50 degrees or so required for dry curing. What do you think? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 It is all about the conditions, that's why the famous and pricy country hams come from where they do, either east of us or all the way to Spain and Italy. Seasonality obviously plays a big role. I say go for it, we only live once. It will be a lot easier than digging down deep enough to get to 50 to 60 degrees around these parts. Dry curing without smoking is highly ambitious as you know. A refrigerator can be used to dry age cuts of beef, so a rig should be doable for one with the dedication you have. Not that dry aging is the same as dry curing, but close... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 A root cellar or also known as a tornado shelter would help immensely with the efficiency (or lack thereof) of a peltier device. if you go with the fall/winter seasonality it wouldn't be as necessary, but dang I've always wanted one of those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 22 minutes ago, oldtimer said: A root cellar or also known as a tornado shelter would help immensely with the efficiency (or lack thereof) of a peltier device. Certainly agree. But I think I can get 50 degrees with a Peltier design in the garage even in the summer. Actually, I am considering doing that project in the house. Intermediate refrigeration is something almost no one has. With Peltier, it's cheap, efficient, and provides ideal storage for apples, citrus, greens, flowers...and dry curing...that we other either don't have or do without. May actually modify one of my end kitchen cabinets for it. Just line the inside with some inch or so of Styrofoam. No reason to assume it would work well, especially since the room is always in the 70s. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Okies. Lateral thinking. Why buy something when you can repurpose? I've a good little refrigerator that, with just me and my son, we can really live without. Tried the thermostat at "1," and got 52 degrees! I've raised it a bit, shooting for 45 as that's 5 above the ideal for a lot of things like potatoes, onions, and such for MONTHS of storage, and citrus, dry curing, and such at 50. Hoping to get the best of both worlds. We shall see... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Check the humidity also to make sure it is within desired spec. Humidity in Parma and Cordoba is fairly high, too dry and I would think the product would suffer. Iberico ham is cured for 36 months for the highest grade. Just how long are you willing to wait? The concept of smoking the meat becomes appealing when looking at long dry cure times, but that is why the product costs so much per pound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 I am more interested in a Virginia ham than the European prosciutto, parma, etc. type. Dry cure is about 15 days. I intend to see if I can get the Masterbuilt with add on smoker down to 90, though most users have said they get about a 100 degrees. If I can't get quite to 90, I'll cut the smoke time accordingly and then heat to 145 for 30 minutes or so to ensure it's pasteurized. May not be 100% authentic, but should be pretty close. Anyway, we shall see. Something to do with rewards, I hope... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/458/458-223/458-223.html Some good info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, oldtimer said: Some good info. Actually, the very link I've been referring to. As to ideal storage temps for other foods, what a hassle! Search engines always return refrigerator temps, wine, heck...all sorts of irrelevancies. After trying several search terms, finally ran "root cellar" to get better info. I am a bit concerned about how to maintain the recommended humidity which is high. I'll figure out something... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Experiment with water in the chamber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 1 hour ago, oldtimer said: Experiment with water in the chamber. Perhaps at the higher temp there will be less frost accumulation. That would be my concern. But that is likely the most straightforward approach to try. Beyond that, I'd have to determine some lateral solution to containing the humidity while assuring some degree of fresh air. Always a solution if one noodles on it long enough... Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 6 hours ago, Mallette said: As to the quote, no clue. I'm not surprised since I already knew you were progless, but it was worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Alrighty...attachment up and running. For you "purists," I am as well. But I am also a realist. I can't afford the rig I'd like to have at the moment...but I will get the most important thing, RESULTS, from this. I am able to hold 98 degrees in the box with good smoke. First load was chips. Instructions say don't use chunks, but BS on that. Next load will be oak from the yard cut as shown on a table saw. Plan to go at least 12 hours, or 145 degrees, whichever comes first. Since the ham has been pasteurized, that should be adequate as I don't think it will be around long anyway. Now. for a country ham from dry cure cold smoke, I am think that I can get this down to sub-90 by using a 24" clamp door to back, then clamping against a shim to regulate the temp. As I am, surprisingly, getting 98 and plenty of smoke on a 96 degree day I think it will be easy and accurately regulated in the fall when we are talking the 80s or less. May not even need the clamp and shim in the winter months. Also, decided to return my drink box to beer and such after getting a "proof of concept" from it. What I will do is buy the cheapest full size used fridge I can find with a frost free function. That way, I can use a simple pan of water, perhaps with a towel I can adjust the surface area of, to maintain the correct humidity for country ham dry curing simply by adjusting the controls up to the regions we never otherwise use as I did on the drink box. 45 should be easy, with room for curing as well as for potatoes, onions, fruit, and such for long term storage at root cellar temps. I am targeting about 75 bucks for the fridge, reasonable in this area. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Frost free only applies to the freezer section, so I am a bit confused why the stipulation. You might get better humidity from a non frost free, but in a refrigerator these days that might be impossible anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Well, the frost free also removes humidity from the lower section, which was what I was thinking. However, it came to mind because my drink box is one with the coils in the main areas since it has no freezer. If you raise the humidity, it freezes on the coils and you have to defrost. However, I realize this is not an issue regardless of the freezer in a full size fridge. Forget it. OTOH, most old ones are frost free anyway these days. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 When I purchased a new GE refrigerator about 20 years ago after the installer man left I noticed that the refrigerator was leaning slightly backward. So I leveled it out and then noticed that some permanently enclosed partitions inside were running very hot. So I called the man back later and the first thing he did was feel the heated inside surfaces then tilted the refrigerator back on an angle again. It started working perfectly and has ever since. He said the defroster melts the ice into water during defrosting and the water drains to the rear traveling inside those partitions and somehow disappears because there is no drain. If you level it the drains don't drain and the water gets hot and the refrigerator no worky. Hey, what do I know except the refrigerator has been crooked for 20 years. The house walls are crooked anyway. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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