HarleyGuy Posted October 17, 2002 Share Posted October 17, 2002 Has anyone attemted using any of the new Reference line with a flea-powered SET??? I'm just getting into this SET thing, and I'm kicking myself for selling my Heresys last year. It's not easy finding high efficiency speakers that are affordable and natural sounding. How would the RB-5II or the RF-5 work with 3.5 watts???? Anyone ever tried this here?? Thanks in advance.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 To be honest, I cant think of anyone here using SET amps with the reference line of speakers. That is not to say it wouldnt work given the right choice of amp. It just seems the Heritage models are particularly suited for SET amplification, even over the RF series which still strikes me as a bit of a compromise between audio and Home Theater. Perhaps you can be one of the first in here to find out, although I know ole Dean (RF-7) is itching to jump ship into the low watt arena. Poor bastard... Just remember that all SET amps are not created equal and two 3.5w amps have the potential to sound quite different with different top and bottom extension. Frankly, I havent heard two SETs sound alike, come to think of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 I think it would work. 1 watt per channel on my mcintosh gets the volume to good listening levels. and I only have SF-2's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speed3 Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Harleyguy, I am assuming that you are the same Harleyguy that has been asking questions in the Bottlehead Forum. Just to speed up the replys on what gear you are looking into... He has been looking into the Bottlehead Foreplay preamp with I belive stock Paramour monoblock amps. I believe he is also contimplating Pi speakers and Bottlehead's own Straight 8's for speakers as opposed to something from Klipsch. I know that there are at least one or two people around here that have the Paramours, but I believe they are using Heritage Line speakers with them. I also know that people around here are using the Legend Series with SET with success. I would imagine that the Reference line would also work well. I think you should probably stay away from the RB's unless you want to use a sub with them. You should probably stick with the RF5's or 7's, but for half of that kind of money you could really find a nice set of Heritage Line speakers (or Legends)that would work well in an SET system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 WEll, thanks for the info. Actually, he needs to put a lot more on the table to decide what works with what such as his music taste, listen room, volume preference, etc. I just realized he is starting from scratch I guess. I dont know if I would go with the route he is questioning if starting from square one (ie Klispch RF or RB). Is he coming from PP to SET or straight from Solid State? He needs to jump back on here with some info. As for the Bottlehead, I think it's great stuff for the money but ultimately can be bettered, especially stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 "The impedance curve shows woofer and port peaks, the latter at 50 ohms, a low point between them of 5 ohms, with a high of 29 ohms in the midrange. Maybe this speaker isn't quite the answer for single-ended fans after all, since frequency response will tend to track the impedance curve with these amps in such circumstances." The above was from a review on the RB5's at this site: http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/loudspeakers/klipsch-rb5.html I don't understand the full implications of what he is saying, but it don't sound good:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Dean, interesting chart. Whether a low powered SET will sound "good" with this speaker depends very much on (a) the ability of the SET in question to drive lower impedence loads, and ( what the listener considers "good sound" to be. In general, and to grossly oversimplify, most SET amps, particularly lower power versions like those using 2A3 or 45 output tubes, will find it "easier" to drive a higher impedence load than a lower impedence load. The speaker in question has a significant, and broad, peak in the midrange, with much lower values in the upper bass (note the minimum at 200 Hz.) A typical SET is going to sound quite "forward" with this speaker - the midrange will be elevated relative to the upper bass. The phase angle is also fairly well behaved in the midrange, shifting gradually from 45 degree capacitive (leading) to 45 degree inductive (trailing), so between the high impedence, moderate phase angle and high sensitivity of the speakers in the midrange, and the generally acknowledged ability of SET's to really shine in the midrange, I'd expect this combination to produce a *GLORIUS* midrange. *** HOWEVER *** I would only expect it to do that at fairly low power levels. Note that the bass range from 30 to 100 Hz has wild swings of impedence magnitude and phase. The low impedence and high phase angles in the lower and mid bass are going to suck power out of the amp. You're not going to get very dynamic bass with an SET on this speaker, and if you turn it up too much trying to get more bass, you'll exceed the amp's capability pretty quickly, and the overall sound will start to harden up and congest. Having said all that, keep in mind that (a) I have never heard this combination, ( all of the above is frightfully full of assumptions and generalizations, and © your room will have a significant impact on how this works. *** NEVER EVER EVER *** buy something like a low powered SET amp until you've had the chance to try it on your system and see if it works. Ray, ever pleased to pontificate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 Would certainly be nice to have a chart like this for the RF7's. Thanks Ray! I actually understand!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 The lower bass impedance swings are MUCH MORE HARMFUL to SET amps. Not harmful per say, but will keep them from opening up and blooming; the sound wont harden as the single-ended amp using DHT has some of the best clipping characteristics of any amplication made. But on speakers with dips in the impedance in the low range, you will tax the 0 feedback SET, regardless of transformers. Although, with REALLY good output iron, they do a lot better. I ran my 2A3 Monoblocks on ProAc Mini Towers for a LONG time thinking the sound was damn good (they did GREAT with the Cary 300se SET). These speakers have a VERY benign impedance and are easy to drive if not exactly the best in the sensitivity range. ProAc sounds very nice with tube amplification. All was lovely until I heard some SET on high sensitivity speakers with benign impedance in the lower range. HOLY WHAT WAS I MISSING! The sound REALLY opened up and bloomed... Lordy, what a difference. When those CW feel into my lap (eg, went on sale within driving distance) I had to see. Within 1 minute, I had moved my beloved ProAcs to SECOND TIER status. The speaker/amp interaction with SET is of TOP importance. I Cant stress this enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powdermnky007 Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 If going with the rf5s you can bi-amp them. Put a set on the horns and your current amp on the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 18, 2002 Share Posted October 18, 2002 For reasons unclear to me -- putting tubes on the top and SS on the bottom -- sounds like poop. When I tried it, it sounded kind of congested. What it really sounded like was a cheap SS amp -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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