Turn: Music Hall MMF-7 with Goldring Eroica Cartridge

[mobile homeless]

Carried over from another thread...

Craig, the cartridge that comes with the MMF-7, the Goldring Eroica, is actually a high output moving coil, which means it can be used in a moving magnet phono stage just fine. I think you can get the MMF-7 for less without the cartridge, but only a hundred or so from that amazingly low price that I quoted from Underwoodwally. He is giving these things away near $200 below typical asking price on other sites. And brand new! IT's a deal, believe me.

Clipped, as for the Sumiko, I think the MMF-7 is a better deal and table. It has the separate motor and better all the way around. And the price is $200 less...and with a cartidge that is $400! And a damn nice little cartridge at that, premounted. Perhaps Chris will post, but as I remember, the table AND cartridge AND shipping is around $780 or so. See the address below.

Walter Liederman

underwoodwally@aol.com

Voice-770-667-5633

fax-1-802-609-1893

Dont tell anyone, but I just copied a review from Stereo Times below. Yep, not a good thing. So at least read it! heh...

The Music Hall MMF-7 Turntable

Musical Magic for Under a Grand

Greg Weaver

8 July 2002

Specifications

Outboard 15-16V/50 mA power supply

Speeds: 33 1/3 rpm, manual commutation to 45 rpm

Deviation from nominal speed: +/- 0.5%

Wow and flutter: +/- 0.08%

Signal to noise ratio: -70 dB

Tracking force: 1.7 grams

Tone arm: 9 inch effective length

Overhang: 18 mm

Platter diameter: 11.8 inches

Platter weight: 3.15 pounds

Dimensions: 18.5" W × 14.2" D × 5.3" high with Dust Cover

Weight: 25 pounds

Goldring Eroica H

High Output Moving Coil

Response: 10 Hz to 30 kHz

Channel Balance: within 1 dB

Channel Separation: 25 dB

Output: 2.5 mV

Compliance: 18 mm/N Lat., 18 mm/N Vert.

Cartridge Mass: 5.5 g

Tip Moving Mass: 0.60 mG

Shape: Fritz Gyger type II fine line

The Music Hall Tradition

For over 15 years now, when someone mentions affordable audio gear, I think of Roy Hall of Music Hall in Great Neck, New York. The first issue of my short-lived magazine the audio analyst©, which came out back in 1989, featured an in depth look at the Rebel, the then entry level turntable from now defunct turntable manufacturer Revolver, which Roy was importing with great success. In all this time, Roy has been importing products with real world pricing and over-achieving performance. He has done such a good job, that I was pleased to honor both him and the MMF-7 at last January's CES in Las Vegas.

I have previously reviewed the $299 MMF-2 (now badged the 2.1) and the $499 MMF-5, both of which perform head and shoulders above their price points. The introduction of the MMF-7 brings new meaning to what vinyl lovers should be able to expect from so-called budget gear, both in terms of features and performance.

Particulars

The Music Hall MMF-7 turntable is 2-speed belt-driven turntable using a split-plinth design and an external (not physically attached to the plinth) AC motor, finished in a high gloss, black piano lacquer finish. Like its lower cost siblings, it is assembled in the Czech Republic in the Pro-Ject turntable plant. Roy had the table assembled from the myriad of parts available at that plant, much as a Master Chef might carefully assemble and select from all the ingredients available at the market for his ultimate recipe. Deucedly clever and remarkably efficient, actually!

The plinth is of the split or two-platform variety, separated by four Sorbothane hemispheres that act as a suspension and isolation system. The base has three threaded adjustable spiked feet and include a set of small black discs to be used as receiving point cups to prevent marring of the surface it rests on and to help to insure good coupling. Like the MMF-5, a spirit level is incorporated on the top platform, situated about 2 inches in from the front, between the arm and platter. Rather than a captured phono cord like the other MMF's, the 7 includes a set of phono jacks mounted under the bottom plinth on the back below the tonearm, which allows the use of any interconnect the owner may see fit to apply.

The 12-volt AC motor is in a cylindrical housing, rests on a round rubber footed "anchor" plate, and comes with an external "Wall-Wart" type power supply that snakes into the motor from under the bottom plinth. It is located in the front right corner (diagonal from the arm pivot), and rises up through a round cutout in both platforms, allowing for its complete isolation (with the exception of the square profile drive belt) from the table. A tiny blue LED lets you know whether the rocker switch is open or closed. This is an ingeniously simple, highly effective method for motor isolation. The belt seats in the groove of either of the two top pulley's (depending on whether you wish for 45 or 33 ⅓ RPM playback) and runs around the perimeter of the 3.15-pound acrylic platter. A screw-on record clamp and felt mat compete the platter assemble. The whole table is topped off by a clear plexi dust cover with a "music hall mmf" badge countersunk in its center.

The Pro-Ject Nine tonearm is used, has a head shell and shaft drawn from one piece of aluminum tube and a bearing system comprised of hardened stainless steel points set in sturdy ring cages. Antiskating is effected by a weight threaded through a loop floating in space and the tracking force is set by use of a rotating counterweight with a center of gravity that is level with the stylus tip. It is decoupled from the arm and is said to offer the added benefit of acting as a resonance damper as well. The arm also has adjustable VTA, a damped arm lift and highly flexible internal wiring drawn from high purity copper.

The MMF-7 comes with a Goldring Eroica H, a high output moving coil cartridge (MSRP is $400 US), already mounted in the Nine's headshell. The Eroica H has a low mass, high rigidity, non-resonant Pocan body and it's motor is constructed of rare earth Neodymium. The stylus is of the Gyger II line contact style (0.47W × 0.19D × 4.72H mils).

To sum up, Roy has incorporated a group of sensible and useful features rarely found on the same table, especially in this price range: a split plinth (Revolver), isolated motor (Pink Triangle), acrylic platter (Rega), and a solid, one-piece tone arm (Pro-Ject). To top it off, he has included a similarly overachieving cartridge, providing the vinylphile with as close to plug-and-play turntable operation as could ever be expected.

Making Music

The MMF-7 easily expands on the exceptional performance of the MMF-5. With "L'Daddy" from the age-old standard James Newton Howard and Friends , the attack and punch of the snare drum are explosive and fast, almost leaving a welt on your chest from its visceral wallop. Microdynamic variations were handled astonishingly well for this price point as well.

With "Witness" and "Black & White" from Sarah MacLaughlin's Surfacing , percussion instruments are well defined and detailed, if ever so slightly softened. Sarah's luscious voice is right on, with the upper midrange performance easily approaching that of my reference turntable. The bow across the strings of the upright bass on "Last Dance" gives a proper balance to the bloom of the wooden body, the "rasp" of the bow hairs and the excitation of the strings, leaving me with that chill running down the back of my neck.

Staging was wide, deep and tall, without being exaggerated, and the table had no trouble retrieving spatial information. With Supertramp's "Dreamer" from Crime of the Century , the voices questioning "Can you do something" that bounce back and forth from stage left to stage right over and over, are realized outside the left and right physical location of the speakers and they are rock solid. The children's laughter at the end of the intro to "School" is placed well behind my back wall, and each one is recreated with a spectacular specificity.

Moving to the title cut from Steely Dan's Aja , a, the studio acoustic was recreated wall to wall in my listening room. Queuing up "Black Cow" and the title track, one easily denotes the shimmer and detail of the cymbals. You are readily able to discern the individuality of each drumstick hit. As Paul Humphrey works over the kit, you are presented with the subtle differences noted as slightly harder and softer strikes are laid down, and you can differentiate the slightly different timbre of blows nearer and farther from the rim, even stick angle changes. This is a combination of good arm and cartridge (compliance) matching and excellent speed stability. The resultant excellent trackibility allows for a very high degree of detail retrieval - not a foregone conclusion at this, or even in some higher, price points.

It is extremely quiet, much more so than either of its lower priced siblings, no wonder given the split plinth and the isolated motor. This quietness translates into a lower noise floor and really lets this little guy excavate subtle microdynamic changes and retrieve inner detail with a surprising degree of accuracy. To say I was completely taken with this little guy's ability to liberate the message in the groove doesn't really convey how good it is. But, telling you that, with the MMF-7 in place, I felt no urgency to put my Oracle/Magnepan/ClearAudio rig back in place should.

The only real weaknesses I noted in my time with the 7 were both a slight loss of extension at both frequency extremes and a slight homogenization of upper bass/lower mid bass in comparison to my reference. With "Too Late," from Alan Parson's Gaudi , the bass line was homogenized slightly, subjectively in the 100-120 Hz region. The rise of the notes seemed blurred slightly which resulted in just the slightest loss of pitch definition.

Wrap One Up And Take It Home

This is one FINE little turntable, folks. A no-frills design that is practical and shrewd, features that make sense, deft bass, delicious midrange, airy treble, wonderful retrieval of detail, very fast and articulate dynamics and an octave to octave balance that is only slightly tilted to the darker side of neutral. And, you don't need to be or hire a turntable specialist to set it up. Open the box, and in 10 minutes, you're playing vinyl. All this for under a grand! What's not to like?

Looking back on my notes, I find repeated reference to the 7's sheer ability to accurately and routinely present the complex hues of any source material I fed it. Form Metallica to Mozart, this little 'table got down to the music and boogied

Is it a giant-killer? Not exactly. But it offers a level of performance so close to the very best that even if you've heard and appreciate a mega-buck analog set up, you'll be able to accept the compromises, they are that slight. And, you can put the cash you saved into rebuilding that record collection!

[Clipped and Shorn]

Did someone just buy a used one time deal MMF-7 from UnderworldWally World or does he undersell new units like hotcakes? Guess I will give him a call at Wally World, or maybe get the kids and station wagon and just make the trip, I need a vacation.

-C&S

[Clipped and Shorn]

More reviews:

There are a few things to keep in mind. The MMF-7 is not plug and play. Make sure you buy it from a shop that knows how to set it up. My vertical tonearm angle was a little too shallow. The shop raised the back and the whole soundstage opened up. Secondly-DO NOT BELIEVE THE INSTALLED BUBBLE LEVEL! I had some serious tracking problems until my shop suggested I try using my own level. I pulled out my level and soon realized the bubble level was not even close.

So, after some work getting the thing set up, I am impressed. Believe the reviews. This is a great sounding turntable

Summary:

This table is a joy to use. For the price, nothing even comes close. The power supply is totally isolated, as it is at the plug, and the motor is also isolated from the plinth. There is a round hole in the plinth that the motor sits in. The motor then sits directly on the shelf, and the turntable is then isolated with three cones that can be rotated to balance the table (a bubble is built in). To improve the isolation even further, I have the turntable on a large piece of marble, with Black Diamond Racing Cones sitting inside sorbothane feet. I can knock on the cabinet, and barely hear it through the turntable. The cones that come with the table are good, but go this one step further. The table comes with a Goldring MC cartridge that lists for 400 bucks alone, so getting the whole system for about 900 bucks rules. The cables that come with it are standard RCA (on both sides), so you can upgrade to any cable you want with it. I also added the Marigo Tonearm Dot Kit and gained a bit more out of it ($50). I also am using a sorbothane mat instead of the stock one that comes with it. When you use the supplied label clamp, you are getting a really well damped setup. The last tweak are a few 3M damping sheets stuck on the bottom of the table below the motor and also on the interconnect panel. The table does have a dust cover (my old Ariston RD-40 did not) and I always leave the dust cover up when I listen. I have not experimented with the sound on this issue. It is just easier. The dust cover can be easily removed if wanted. I am using the table in my MC stage on my preamp, but there is enough gain for it to work in a regular MM stage. In fact, the gain is so high that with it in the MC stage, I can hear sound even when the volume is all the way down. It just sounds better on the MC stage on my system. I looked into other brands, but by the time you added an arm and cartridge, the price was too high for me. You really need to check this out.

Summary:

Simply put, for 1k you cannot go wrong with this table. It presents a very black background and teh cartridge provides detail, dynamics, and great frequency response. This table provides gripping musical reproduction. One review I have read states that it is not as absolutely quiet as one might like, which is perhaps true, this table is not ready for a very low output Moving coil. On the other hand, most vinyl available is inherently much, much noisier than this table so unless you plan to buy many expensive reissues, this is a non-issue. In the two weeks I have had this table it has impressed me again, and again. Deatail on strings and piano, snap on drums, and expansive presentation of orchestras. The big difference I have noted between this and the tables listed above is its clarity and detail. People talk about the "warm" vinyl sound. I would describe this table as pleasantly accurate. It does not sound warm, but revealing and gripping. If you want a moving emotional experience, put set this table up, put on a high-quality classical recording, and prepare to be gripped. One note, the cartridge seems to take 15 hours or so to break in. Buy and enjoy.

Summary:

A friend needed a new table and really liked my MMF 5 so I gave him a good price and I picked up the MMF 7. Everything I liked about the MMF 5 was improved on this table. The isolation is far superior. The sound is smoother and the backround is silent. The motor noise of the 5 is gone. The finish is really much better. The project 9 arm is nice and soild compared with the 5's. My only problem is I had to replace my Creek 8se phono stage because it did not have the gain needed to get real volume. You can not go wrong with this table at this price, every other table of this quality is the same price or more minus the cartridge

[NOSValves]

Mobile,

I have another question. My current Cartridge a Shure M97E has 4.MV of output. If using this 2.5MV Cartridge what is this going to do to my Overall gain ? Is the 1.5MV less output going to drop my overall DB Level by a major amount ?

Craig

PS.

Would you happen to know what types of payment this Wally world dude excepts LOL !!

[Chris Robinson]

Kelly, good thread and timely (for me, anyway) ...

The price I got for a factory-sealed, new unit was $780. Shipping was additional and it came in around $25. No sales tax, so the total was a tad over $800.

[mobile homeless]

Craig, how high do you have to turn your Scott 299 up to reach adequate volume via the phono with your La Scala? Usually, most MM stages and preamps do have enough gain although some might be lacking a touch. How much do you need to rotate the dial?

You know, if you wanted even more gain the and the use of ANY MC cartridge of even LOWER voltage, you could actually get a stepup transformer and build it yourself; it's really easy (probably take 30 minutes total) and they sell units that people like a lot for not too much at DIYSUPPLY.

As for the TT, I think Wally accepts Money Order, Personal Check, Visa/Mastercard. He might accept PAyPAl, I dont know. But since he DOES accept Visa/MC, there are no worries. He has an Audiogon Feedback rating of 1776! And evey one is positive. Check them out.

Audiogon Underwoodwally Feedback Rating

Drop Walter an email. Just saw Chris' post and $780 for new with tax is still good.

kh

[NOSValves]

Mobile,

Its Official my wife hates you !!! I just talked to Wally and ordered the MMF-7 with the cartridge. I figure if it lowers my output I can just adjust the resistor values on the Scott and EICO to compensate rather than put something else in the path. Its a easy fix really. He sells the Table without cartridge for $660 shipped.I just couldn't see not getting the $400 cartridge for $225 !!

I now have to put together a bunch of Ebay auctions to regain the $825 spent (with shipping). I think I'll sell my Dual TT and maybe my LK-72 Scott amp. I also might sell my Heathkit AA-151. I already sold my 222C to another Forum member. My collection is going to thin out quick !! If anyone here is interested in any of these peices let me know soon before they go on the auction block.

Craig

[mobile homeless]

Great going! I think at that price, you cant miss. All you need now is a really good stand!! heh.. I forgot to add that bit... A good stand makes a big diff with all this stuff and the TT especially. You could make something if you have some tools. And I know some buddies that have made the Sand filled box to rest a TT on with good results.

Man, I am so surprised you went with the table! But congratulations... I am in the same boat. I am gettting ready to buy a big $$$ cartridge and maybe a SAILBOAT in the 25ft range. In other words, I am getting ready to sell CARS, stereo gear, my Hobie 16, and anything else I can find that isnt tied down.

I think you are going to be happy with that table. Sounds like you are getting your whole rig set up for some nice stuff! Man, ole Jazman is even going to be proud! heh.

Good job!

kh

[Clipped and Shorn]

The thing to remember is you really have to sell that stuff on eBay, not just say you are. I have to remember this too. I am hoping to thin out this winter. And I am trying to inspire fini to do the same with his organs.

mh,

If one does not have room for a dedicated stand for the TT, are there alternatives? I have a long table on which I was planning to put both turntables and some other equipment as well. Is the idea of the stand to absorb the vibrations of people walking around in the house? Is there some kind of compromise, eg. something you could put the TT on and still have it on a table? Can you just put the sand directly on the LPs?

If one was to build a stand for the TT, what are the essential features one should go for? The stand you make still rests on your floor, so I would like to know the theory of the stand. Are there some good DIY links? Even if you had the TT on a solid block of lead, why would it not still pick up vibrations from the floor? Fill me in.

How about some kind of hammock hanging from the ceiling? They should make a gyroscopic stabilizer like those special tripods you use with a camera while in a helicopter to smooth out the vibrations which would otherwise cause the camera to bounce around.

-C&S

[Chris Robinson]

OK, I took the -81 downstairs, pulled the bottom/upper cover off, checked the tube labels, and we're okay. I put them on the tube test and they all showed "dead". I intuitively think that an amp can't run too well with 100% dead tubes, so I think my tube tester is DOA.

So I'll just scrap any trace of humility and say "HELLLLLP !!" ... I'm s c r e w e d ... to fix this thing is way beyond my experience and capability. Anyone want to take this on for parts plus a reasonable wage? Just don't know what to do.

Bummer.

[NOSValves]

Chris,

Ship it out to me it won't cost $50 bucks max to fix it parts and labor plus shipping. It will be a breeze now that I have worked on mine. If your up for the money we can put some high dollar Metal films in it like Kelly suggests for a few more bucks. Its up to you !!

Craig

Send me a email and we can trade info and what not craigostby@comcast.net

[mobile homeless]

Here is a shot of Chris' wiring for his HF-81. You can see the overhaul with the Orange Drops. Maybe we can put some better stuff in there for the phono and the pre-coupling. As for the resistors, let me see what I can look up for good money. Might be worth it if for not that much more ducats. I happen to like the vintage stuff for sound even though they are a bit drift prone.

Craig, have you tried putting in your best digital sounrce into the Aux A inputs? If you have one good player, give it a go.

I was talking to a buddy today and he said if any of the vintage units have the old "Black Cats" still in there, to leave them in. IF good, they have nice tone.

REgardless, nice of you to help with Chris' amp.

ps- Those cathode bypass caps in Chris' unit look pretty lame...

[NOSValves]

Mobile,

actually if you compare Chris's phono section to a stock one its all screwed up. The one tucked in close to the side has 2 large .22 MFD Orange drops on it and only calls for one !! This is installed where a 10mfd @ 8V axial Lytics should be LOL !! No wonder this thing doesn't work !! Also the only Orange drops are in the phono section all the others are cheapo off shore Jap jobs I think. They are those red jobs. They are built just like a orange drop . This amp needs a good going through really. At least the 30 mfd axials are good Sprague Atoms !

Craig

[mobile homeless]

Here is a shot of the 716p SBE caps. I thought those in the center were the SBE. The Orange Drops in the phono almost look like 715p. Actually, the real 716p are a LOT bigger I guess... I havent seen the latest incarnations. But it does seem if they should be bigger (both 715p and 716p are bigger).

I dont know; I cant really tell. Chris, what does it say on the caps? Compare phono with the coupling in pre/output. IF you get confused, refer to me diagram on my Tweak page for the HF-81. IT labels some of the parts etc.

Craig, I havent seen the "offshore" ones you speak of.

[mike stehr]

It looks to be some carbon film resistors in that unit as well.

Elna Cerafine would be a good 'lytic for upgrade.

Let us know where you find the screamin' deal on Carbon comps, Kelly.

They still make them, they are out there in various brands.

Xicon, Ohmite? etc...

Then there are the spendy resistors:

Riken. Nice Carbon comps, a buck to two bucks a pop.

Holco. a buck or better a pop.

Audio Note Tantulum. 8 bucks a pop. (Ouch!)

Then the internet surplus places, NOS Allen Bradleys, etc..

It's not really a good thing to use all the same type of resistor throughout a unit, can't explain why, just guessing.

And the general concensus is that metal film resistors tend to sound hard and edgy on tube amplifiers.

I think they can have certain applications in tube equipment, when the certain resistor sound signature is wanted in the design. (Another guess.)

What would be a higher quality 165 ohm or 175 ohm resistor, that one could find other than those damn cement boat resistors?

(Or other values as well, for that matter.)

[Tom Mobley]

Here's what mine looks like so far, I've got the Sprague's in and went to 716P for the coupling caps. Those four black ones in front are Pyramids, I also noticed that the orange 30uf PS caps had a tiny little pyramid logo on them, but no brand name.

I've got a bunch of Auricaps to replace the Pyramids and the ones on the phono preamp, but looks like I'll need more.

As you'll notice, my digital camera is a POS.

Tom

[Tom Mobley]

here's a closer shot

[Tom Mobley]

the whole shebang, notice the bag of auricaps in the back in front of my old Yamaha CR-620, Klipsch and Al K. crossovers, new 40 watt weller iron, at the very bottom are the disc coupling caps I pulled out along with a couple 716P orange drops.

[Tom Mobley]

another view, amp right side up for once. It sounds the same either way, I've discovered.

Edit: bummer, no pic. try again later

[NOSValves]

Mobile,

If you look at his amp and notice the color difference between the caps they are definitly different caps. Every Orange drop I have ever seen new or old was blatant Orange no radness to them. I just remove 4 caps that look just like these from a 299B and they were off shore jobs. Very small for a >1 MFD cap.

Mike,

all the resitors I see in the amp are factory as far as I can tell. They look Identical to my 81.

Craig