mobile homeless Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 I dont agree at all concerning the MMF-7 which is a BIG step up from the MMF-5. And I HAVE THE LINN LP-12 so I know a thing or two about it. I would not recommend anyone getting the LP-12 of pre-85 vintage as there is just TOO much that could have been done to these tables. Walking across the room with one without taking it completely apart is just ONE problem. The Valhalla, better subchassis, new springs, are a signigicant upgrade. Still, I think some of the modern tables such as the MMF-7 offer a really good non-tweakers alternative. And it pains me to hear people diss things of this nature. Telling a vinyl newbie to buy an old LINN LP-12 sans tonearm or history is insane! ARe you out of your skull? Heh.... First of all, Linn's are VERY sensitive to the tonearms and many sound mediocre on it. SEcond, setting up the LINN is just TOO hard for the beginner unless there is a Linn dealer in the area. IF they are not balanced correctly, then you have mediocre sound. Third, I think a VPI HW-19 Mk III with tonearm of the Incognito/Origin Live REga caliber would be a better all around solution to the typical vinyl newbie or non tweaker. Dont get me wrong, I love my Linn LP-12. IT sounds like more soul than many tables I know. But when not setup, it's mediocre, plain and simple. Also, I just would NOT buy an old Linn from EBAY of all things that has probably changed hands 10 times since than and needs a host of things to get going. Also, do NOT BUY A LINN from someone that does not have the original box and packing. IF moved about or shipped intact or together, you are asking for a mess on your hands. That being said, it's a great table. But I just dont recommend it to newbies or if you dont buy if from the original owner that cared for it and knew the ropes. The MMF-7 is NOT a piece of junk and that seems a bit over the top. It's one thing to site the MMF-2.1... but the 7 has some good engineering, a separate motor apart from the chassis, and the tonearm has gotten good comments elsewhere. I have not heard ANY negatives about it...with very few returns, this after asking around. kh "Where were you when we all decided to buy Music Halls with Kelly as our cheerleader?" Lovely comment. I know. I wasted my time bigtime on that one. Basically you cant win here. Some goon buys a LINN....and then FREAKS OUT when he sees the spring suspension and what it takes to balance the beast properly. The chance he will get good sound without neurosis is small..and I'd hear it all again... My nitemare is someone from here buying a LINN and then saying, "Dalm, this thing is bouncing all around... And the platter is in TWO!!! HELL FIRE! This thing's a piece of SHEOAT! My damn direct drive is so stable and better an whatnot! Piece of Euro junk!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 You're right. But I tend to leap off cliffs and usually hit the water. I even made a Decca cartridge sound good on the Black Widow/LP12--at least I think it sounded good. And I've never seen the 7 in person, only the 3 and 5-- and I think both of them ARE pieces of junk! I trust you when you say the 7 is not. There is so much on-line help for the LP12--anyone with any mechanical sense, good ears and PLENTY of time can set up an LP12 as long as it ISN'T tweaked--plus it's such a ball to take it apart and put it back together--the self-satifaction in making it work is worth the time spent. And then there's the hunt for the right tonearm and cartridge! I always seem to forget than many here have NEVER fooled around with turntables--that this is all new to them. We all have to start somewhere and I agree that setting up a 20 year old Linn with no prior expereince is like getting behind the wheel of a 1938 Bugatti to take driving lessons. Forgive me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Kelly, My comment was not to discredit your recommendations, which you should never think is a waste of your time since so many here have happily utilized your very thorough investigations to cut to the bottom line of an otherwise daunting array of possibilities. I was mostly commenting on the fact that I did not remember Alan pitching in his opinion during the previous discusson of the Music Hall MM7. I was hoping you would come to our defense after his comments, and you did, and thank you for the reassurance and if I hadn't said it before Thank You for all your input generally, it is always most helpful. I knew from the previous thread that you were not recommending the Linn to us newbies over the Music Hall, otherwise you would have mentioned it then. But it was good for you to come back and make it emphatically clear, what your feelings were regarding this. I have enough to deal with upgrading these old tube amps and building the speaker system. I don't need to be fretting over a used Linn from an eBay dealer overseas in the UK! And yes, it was understood, that your recommendations were for the specifically stated price range and for something new and relatively easy to set up. I still feel you hit the bulls eye. Thanks. -c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 Well, to tell you the truth, I got a load of email in my box for guys wanting to buy "BRAND NEW TABLES" with a factory warranty etc. In the under 1000 range, new? I didnt see much out there. I think the Rega has a good tonearm. But the turntable is just average. Of all the NEW, and I repeat, NEW! turntables out there in the 800 range WITH a GOOD cartridge (the Goldring Eroica is a nice little MC) with some good ideas ala sep motor, nice platter, good clamp, nice tonearm, and all in one for $800? Well, it's a sound choice. Then can upgrade later and get their ducats back on it too. For a new table, with nice arm and cartridge, along with the only table with a sep motor in that range, it's hard to beat. Of course, the VPI Scout without tonearm with a used Incognito/OL Rega RB-250 would be in the same range sans cartridge. But it sure isnt turnkey and you would be starting from scratch. But everyone has to learn. I actually like the sound of the sprung tables to be honest. They have a certain soul that is hard to explain...a tube like tonality...but if off..... heh. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I ordered up one of those donuts ... The felt mat on the MMF7 IS a static magnet ... New MMF7 coming from Walter as well ... He was great to work with through these problems and stood behind his word which is becoming more rare these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 Chris, post this last comment about Walter in the UNDERWOODWALLY MMF-7 thread. Great it worked out. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 Oops. I actually discarded what you saw almost immediately after writing it, but I guess I forgot to hit submit. I have been known to be hot headed now and then. I often censor myself almost immediately after posting something, thank the gods for the edit mode, some forums do not have it, and I definitely use it here all the time. Just unwrapped the MM7 and have started to put it together. The cover is cracked, but I will wait until I have checked everything before screaming to Wally. c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 1, 2002 Author Share Posted November 1, 2002 I actually didnt see your post until I read this one above and went back to look. ARe you talking to me above? That post came at the same time I was posting mine directly below it. OBviously, if I read that I would have resonded. Christ..... Good to see it was heart-felt. Thanks for the nice words... Seriously. Too bad it was soured by the fine followup; I honestly didnt even see it as your post came out while typing my response to Allan. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowooo Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I just love the way vinyl sounds on my piece of junk MMF-5. I just can't imagine how great the music would sound on a non-piece of junk table, might have to check into that. Thanks Allan! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 1, 2002 Share Posted November 1, 2002 I don't know about donuts killing ringmat (there are salves for this), but I remember Crystal Gayle singing "Donuts make your brown eyes blue." I am not sure if you're supposed to eat them, or wear them, like those spa ladies do with their cucumber slices. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 The comment about the 3 and 5 being "junk" has NOTHING to do with how they SOUND! I HAVE NEVER HEARD EITHER ONE!!! I was only commenting on the quality and type of construction/materials used--that's all. If they sound good, that's GREAT! I'm all for it! I was only commenting that for about the same amount of money or a little more you can score a much higher quality USED table. I did not mean to offend ANYONE. Sorry. All of you who are spinning LPs on a regular basis have all my respect and admiration!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Vintage snobbery is bad for the already faltering economy. It is patriotic to sometimes support new products in spite of "sonny, they just don't make'm like they used to".....just as it is sometimes a positive thing to support new young musicians and artists and concepts in spite of feeling like the old stuff is superior superior superior... as in one's $200+ per disc museum LP collection....just remember all of us who are burning tubes etc. are inherently elitist energy consuming outmoded unprogressive ethnocentric relics of a dying age.....part of the problem, not the solution.......it's fun tho....... c7s Funny stuff Mr. Fini! You certainly brighten up these boards with your crazy wit and inventive punning. Many here appreciate your humor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 But they DO make them like they used to! You just have PAY for it! Everyone complains about the quality of stuff going to hell, but they keep snapping up those $79 Chinese DVD players. The old adage it truer than ever--you get what you pay for. I buy quite a bit of new music on CD. My CD player is two years old ( and was made in the USA!) My wires are almost new (and were made in the USA)! I go out and listen to live music at LEAST 5 times a month--usually 6 or 7. I don't know of any better way to support musicians than to pay to hear them perform live. Last night I went to hear Joey Defrancesco. Tonight it's Teddy Edwards and a 17-piece big band. Wednesday it's the John Heard Trio and then Saturday night Elvin Jones. That's four times in eight days. And I might have a bunch of old records that are worth a lot of money, but I PLAY ALL OF THEM--and I paid very little for most of them. I like hunting them down, trading, selling, buying. It's a FREAKING hobby like anything else. And I've always been attracted to vintage stuff--my house is full of art and antiques and I collect vintage cars and trucks as well. And take a close look at those Music Hall tables and tell me they're carefully made. They might work OK, but they're still junk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Yeah I like vintage things too. And Mr. Fini is a vintage collector par excellance of many things you would not believe. If you are ever in the neighborhood, come on over and check out our collections and taste some of our vintage wines from our neighborhood while listening to a few records you do not have. Bring the kids too. c7s The time to have called the Music Halls junk was during the thread in which their relative merits were being discussed by a handful of forum members who were out shopping, that is usually what the forum is good for. Chiming in about how they are junk after several here purchased them with mobile's recommendations and research somehow makes my mouth water for that upcoming thanksgiving feast.....where we all get together to eat Peacocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Hey, thanks, Clipped! You wouldn't believe how many email requests I get from people, just like you, who really dig my sense of humor. They don't mention it here (I guess they don't want to appear infatuated on a public forum). By the way, I've been enjoying YOUR posts. They're getting better and better. I especially like having to figure out what you're talking about. Know what I mean? fini P.S: A.S., Please stop emailing me. It's getting ermbarassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Come over here and give me a big, fat juicy kiss, you he-man you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 MY toy is better than YOUR toy! nahnahnahnahnah! Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Allan, I hope that's tongue in cheek. fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Favog Posted November 2, 2002 Share Posted November 2, 2002 Kelly- Thanks for the thumbs up on the PF800. I only paid $449 for it back then + cartridge. I was working for an audio store when we had one of those meetings out for dinner that a manufacturer paid for. One of the unveiled products was the PF800 and PF1000 units. This was along with the M-80, T-80, etc line. One of the reps from Yamaha that was there was a guy named Al Boch (sp?) who was one of their best gear-head geeks at the time. Shame he could'nt sign it for me.... A thought that cross my mind was to have the fixed RCA cables replaced by something more substantial or even have female RCA connectors mounted to the back of the TT. Although if I did that then I would be wondering if the tonearm wiring should have been replaced as well to compliment it. Hmmmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted November 9, 2002 Share Posted November 9, 2002 I tried the Extremephono mats, I cannot hear any difference, and the LPs stick to the mats so when you pick up the LP off the turntable you have to peel it off your LP, and by then you have most likely caused your drive belt to come off in the process. What a nuisance. I am so glad they have a money back guarantee. By the way, we recognized the material they are made from which is used to keep your carpets from slipping and can be purchased by the yard. All you need is a scissors. This product is nothing more than this. Mostly I cannot hear any sonic difference....what was the theory anyway? =c7s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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