Incredible Pages from Audiophile Club of Athens !!!

[skaloumbakas]

November 17th, 2002

1. To be up-to-date, please visit http://aca.gr once a week.

2. Send this post address to a friend who might be interested.

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NOVEMBER 2002 update from ACA.GR

Dear Fellow Audiophiles Hello,

Welcome to the mid-November 2002 Newsletter from A.C.A., regarding latest web-site updates and other Club's activities:

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A. LAST WEB-SITE ENTRIES & UPDATES (17/10 - 16/11)

A.C.A.'s mid-November Newsletter (subscribe to A.C.A. mail list to receive it in your mail box!), 16 Nov

A.C.A.'s phpBB High End Forums modified (Forums' functions and appearance has been improved - new topics...), 12 Nov

New Record Review Louis Armstrong, Norah Jones & Diana Krall - 3 records, (by T. Pothitos), 06 Nov

New turntables (from 'Garrard' & 'E M T'), 06 Nov

See the TOP 10 High End systems of the past 2 months!!!, 04 Nov

See the TOP 10 Turntables of the past 2 months!!!, 03 Nov

New turntables (from 'RockPort Tech' & 'S p j'), 03 Nov

World Profile Page updated! (RockPort II Sirius upgraded to III Sirius - incredible!!!, M. Lavigne), 02 Nov

New & updated World systems (directory a), 02 Nov

15,000 visitors on October and still going up! Have a look at some graphs, comparing monthly visitors of top Audio sites!, 01 Nov

New Club's double meeting (Quad 989 Panels driven by SS and top analogue + ...), 01 Nov

New A.C.A. Member High End Profile (Apogee 'Diva' driven by Krell, P. Avgeris), 31 Oct

New & updated systems from A.C.A., 31 Oct

New Club Member (Peter Avgeris), 31 Oct

New Items on Sale (Cadence Canasaya valve mono blocks, Accuphase CDplayer, Vienna 'Beethoven' speakers, etc., etc...), 24 Oct

Equipment Review page updated (Non felt record mats from ExtremePhono, additional comments by T. Syrigos), 23 Oct

New Equipment Review page ('Solid state' stylus cleaner f/ ExtremePhono, comments coming soon), 23 Oct

New World High End Profile (Avalon 'Eidolon' driven by 2x2 tube monos in an excellent room!), 22 Oct

A.C.A. High End Profile Page updated! (Quad 989, driven by Accuphase, using top analogue, T. Pothitos), 21 Oct

Updated World system (directory , 17 Oct

All links above are included in the "Last Month's Navigator" of our web-site, which is the first you should check out when you enter the site.

It refreshes at least 15 times per month and to locate it, go to left NAV-BAR of http://aca.gr, choose "Visit the latest!" and select "Last month's entries".

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B. UPCOMING EVENTS

Next weekend, one of the best events of the year will take place: The Athens November 2002 High-End Show which will be held on 22-23-24 November 2002 (Park Hotel, 10 Alexandras Ave., tel.: +30 210 8894500).

Next Month's Club meeting will be held on December 15th Sunday afternoon, at L. Valleras & K. Daras listening places.

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C. LATEST POLLS UPDATE

In our web-site, we incorporate a 12-Q multi-poll. Here are the current results (first 2 answers) of the most vavorite Questions:

What counts most for sound playback... (177 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Speakers: 39.5%, Listening room: 24.9%

How long since your first Stereo... (175 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

> 24 Years: 23.4%, 21 - 24 Years: 14.9%

Your favorite speaker's type... (159 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Dynamic: 38.4%, Panel: 20.1%

Your favorite front end type... (152 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Analogue: 49.3%, CD: 33.6%

Your favorite amplifier's type... (146 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Single End: 28.8%, MosFet: 16.4%

Money spent for your present Hi-Fi... (146 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

< 7000 Euro: 18.5%, 7 - 15000 Euro: 17.8%

Sources included in your Hi Fi... (135 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

An & CD: 40.7, CD pl. only: 25.9%

Equipment you like to see reviewed... (111 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Speakers: 36.9%, Amplifiers: 22.5%

Favorite Music you listen to... (107 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Jazz/Blues: 38.3%, Classical: 26.2%

Opinion you trust for Hi-Fi quality... (73 votes, to vote for this poll, click here)

Friend: 27.4%, Audio Club: 21.9%

Please, make your own contribution to these results. All 12 polls are placed in a table in our Basic Files of the web-site.

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That's all for this month...

KEEP IN TOUCH - SEE YOU IN MID DECEMBER.

[mobile homeless]

This always strikes me as a big advertisement....almost like an Audiophile Infomercial.

I dont mind one link to the site with a small note announcing some interesting updates, but why the overkill here? IT smacks of too much promotion. IT wasnt well-received a year ago and I still dont think it too wonderfulla today.

Obviously there are other opinions. This is just my own.

kh

[justin_tx_16]

I for one like the posts. They are not selling anything so not an infomercial in my eyes.

I like to be able to see headlines and click to learn more about a turn table and whatnot. All the athens guys seem to be really nice.

To each his own i guess

[mobile homeless]

I see your point.

I know a number of the guys as well and have shared email with more than a few. What I dont like it the barrage of links. Not that I dont find some of the equipment intriguing as well. But if you remember last year, there was a constant peppering of these type posts. I guess if held to a minimum, there is nothing wrong. It just strikes a bit of a chord here. Still, I imagine more on here these days will like it than not.

kh

[justin_tx_16]

Well I too see your point. How about they get one thread and each week or month or whatever it is the Athen's Audio Addicts (clever eh?...) can just make a new post. That would keep things tidy would'nt you say?

I get tired of people making multiple posts for a single product like...

RF-7 Tweeter, what kind?

Do I need a sub for my RF-7's?

What kind of amp for new RF-7

Spikes? How?

What color are your RF-7's

Finally got RF-7's!

That is what irks me. And when all people do is ask for help but never contribute... Or CONSTANTLY make up threads that are TOTALLY off topic. Like... "Look at this funny page"... Or constant barraging of BOSE flaming. Yes, we all hate BOSE, get over it.

Ok. Off my soap box... or was I ever on it?... hrmmm

[Deang]

Time to double up on your medication Justin:)

He's a friend of Maxs' -- he's O.K. with me. Besides, Chris only does this once in a blue moon -- it's not like it happens every day or every week.

The site is intense. I go there to keep myself humble.

[justin_tx_16]

Humble yourself? Whatever. It makes me want to cry haha. Why them... not me?.. LoL Someday... I keep telling myself that haha.

Muhahaha LoL LiMM, ROFLOL... AHHH Where's the KEPRA!

[arco]

----------------

On 11/17/2002 1:00:47 AM justin_tx_16 wrote:

Well I too see

your

point. How about they get one thread and each week or month or whatever it is the Athen's Audio Addicts (clever eh?...) can just make a new post. That would keep things tidy would'nt you say?

I get tired of people making multiple posts for a single product like...

RF-7 Tweeter, what kind?

Do I need a sub for my RF-7's?

What kind of amp for new RF-7

Spikes? How?

What color are your RF-7's

Finally got RF-7's!

That is what irks

me

. And when all people do is ask for help but never contribute... Or CONSTANTLY make up threads that are TOTALLY off topic. Like... "Look at this funny page"... Or constant barraging of BOSE flaming. Yes, we all hate BOSE, get over it.

Ok. Off my soap box... or was I ever on it?... hrmmm

----------------

Yep!

I tend to agree with most of your points, Justin, but - alas - this is not a perfect world...As a result, you will always have people posting on irrelevant subjects (that's a point for the moderators), or people who genuinely need help but feel uncomfortable to contribute, either because they believe they do not have the necessary knowledge or, for that matter, feel intimidated by the "know it all" posters. Just to mention two classic cases.

What I believe in fact, is that the Hi-Fi hobby is a lot about sharing and that's exactly what Skaloumbakas is doing: Once a month he is telling the world what 50 audio buffs are doing in their (limited, believe me...) free time. No more and no less.

Now, if this must/has to be seen through other perspectives or "filters", well it's open to debate.

[mobile homeless]

Just curious. Are there FEES involved with this club? How much does it cost to host a single page for your gear? How do the hits involved from hotlinks affect the membership as well as the stature of the site?

IT is not as simple as it seems.

Sharing is coming aboard and talking about your gear, asking a question, debating an issue, exchanging ideas, sharing music, giving advice or opinions. The posting of 50 hot links along with numerous questionaires does not strike me as innocent as it sounds.

I guess I just have memories of the first time this happened. He was politely asked to not persist. At that time, every single, solitary post was something to do with links to the club or a new club page, most of the time having nothing to do with anything being discussed in this forum, only USING this forum as a hotlink jumpoff point to said club.

Strangely enough, the club did teach me or better yet, remind me of something over the last year; it pushed me further away from the type of audiophile that listens to the gear as a tool letting the music be used in the very same way. Reading most of the descriptions of the systems really brought that home to me. Yes, there were some exceptions, but in the number of systems I visited, they were few and far between. In that way, I owe the club a debt of thanks.

kh

[maxg]

"Just curious. Are there FEES involved with this club? How much does it cost to host a single page for your gear? How do the hits involved from hotlinks affect the membership as well as the stature of the site?"

There is an annual membership fee which includes the page. As far as I know there is no correlation currently between the number of hits and the costs of that page.

On a further note Kelly, whilst I share some of your reservations on the approach of the club members to audio I do find it a fascinating insight into this hobby of ours. It also gets me the opportunity to listen to some systems that I would never normally come across in someone's home rather than in the sterile environment of a show or a high end retail outlet.

Last night we all went round to Christos' house to listen to his system.

Sadly there were just too many people there - all chatting away to really be able to hear his system (it doesnt go that loud) but it was an interesting opportunity to see some fellow audiophiles and gain input on my own speaker quest.

I will post in the near future on my conclusions. suffice to say that I have made some steps forwards over the weekend and now have a path mapped out for possibly further improving the sound.

[dubai2000]

Max,

glad to read that you have got some help in deciding what will be next. I was also busy this weekend listening to yet another LaScala set up. This time it was a set of McItosh MC30 driving the speakers and some (c.E.C.?) CD player (sadly no vinyl). The gentleman whose gear it is has been a Klipsch listener for many years and though he doesn't have a marble floor, his room is still different to most as it is hardly furnished and without any carpet. You know where I am heading??? Well, I kind of narrated your experience and both he and another long time Klipsch listener believe that in your LaScala there must have been something wrong, either with the speaker itself (different driver, xover etc) or with the amps/digital(?) end used. So don't rush before committing yourself too soon. I am waiting for both of my vintage tube amps to get here (one being serviced, the other being shipped) and it'll be interesting to compare them to my SET. So far from having listened briefly to the Eico I think this might alos be an option you might want to consider. Obviously I don't know anything about your Greek amps, but don't rule out vintage stuff either. After all there have been many postings here which throw a very favourable light on those amps (and they come from a variety of people).

Just my $0.02.

Wolfram

[maxg]

Actually Wolfram the steps forward were all with the Sansui's.

When I got home on Friday night I removed the wicker speaker covers and also the metal diffusers that were screwed in over the twin horn loaded tweeters.

This has added a much needed edge to the highs but it is still a little lacking IMO. Arco has offered to come over to assess the crossover and tweeter (in fact all the drivers) - as indeed has another ACA member (one who puts music first - would definitely get Kelly's seal of approval).

These horn loaded tweeters are very small - I am begining to think it might be an idea to disconnect them entirely and run a separate tweeter box atop the main speaker - but we will have to get the input of others before I do anything drastic. I will try to get a picture of them to show everyone. They look hilarious in contrast to the size of other horn loaded tweeters I have seen. Interestingly the horns are also conical in design, which, in some ways is more logical than the Klipsch squared off approach (at least to my mainly vacant mind).

Anyway - feel free to keep plugging the LaScala's - who knows - you may even convince me to arrange a home demo...

[dubai2000]

Max,

by now you must think I am a 'hidden' dealer trying to 'get rid of' a set of fridge-like Klipsch junk...

Actually the reason why I am rather persistant has to do with the fact that for most people I know (myself included!) this hobby is quite costly, and how quickly does one spend $$ and regrets it later. Surely, getting to know once listening habits and training one's ears is a constant learning process (until the biological clock ticks a bit more noticably) and so changing gear is probably unavoidable, but if I had perhaps been introduced to let's say Klipsch speakers or tube amps earlier, some costly (for my budget) 'mishaps' could have been avoided.

That this 'madness' of getting to know just another amp might be a never-ending story (sort of) I have realized (again!) this weekend. I simply have fallen in love with a set of McIntosh MC 30s - so knowing myself I know what's going to happen one day (LOL).

Wolfram

[mobile homeless]

Wolfram, I feel your pain...or is it ecstasy? Perhaps it is the never-ending need to keep searching, something that really does grip the audio world within the HI-END especially.

Your love for the McIntosh MC-30 is shared by Allan Songer who has sampled many McIntosh (he loves the brand) and found this his favorite. Of course, he deposits some insane NOS KT-66 worth some ducats... But Allan seems to be smitten with the ole Mac. Seems you have been hooked too.

While I dont share the love for the vintage Macs as much on the whole, I have wanted to hear the MC-30 out of curiosity and for the fact it is one model I have not seen nor heard (besides, Allan has my curiosity up as well). I havent read too many negative comments on it from the Mac crew nor from the regular brigade. And as stated, Allan LOVES his pair.

What is is you love about them so much? Drop Allan an email and ask him about the amps; he has owned them for some time now and has tried all different combinations of tubes. His favorite speaker is the Cornwall and he prefers vinyl (and a vintage TD-124 Thorens at that) so drop him a line.

kh

[Deang]

Max, I bet those itty bitty tweeters are piezos.

[dubai2000]

What I like about those MC 30s? Well, you might find it positively silly, but I simply like their looks (and their sound). The gentleman where I've seen them also owns a pair of MC 60s. Obviously they all have the same Mc design, but what's nice about those 30s are their dimensions. Aethetically speaking they are well proportioned (more than those 60s - at least in my eyes) - I never noticed that before in any picture. Perhaps its a combination of size, those rounded 'corners' of the transformers and the idea of putting tubes between those as well and not just next to them.

Sound: well, they were connected to a set of LaScalas with a CD player going directly into the amps. Unfortunately the music played was all unknown to me, but comparing a recording that was first played on a Tannoy, Fisher, NAD combo revealed a much greater fidelity to a 'living' voice via the Klipsch/Mc combo. Of course that's mainly due to the speakers, but the gentleman compared them favourably to the 60s. He said that heights/mids are VERY similar, only the bass might be abit more fulsome with the bigger amps. For me it's this combination of looks (simply cool!) and sound (as far as I can tell) which is tempting.

Wolfram

[Allan Songer]

The are very handsome amps indeed in a machine-age utilitarian-but-with-flare sort of way. Build quality is second to NONE--even those who hate vintage MAC gear will agree with that! But to buy an amp for the way is looks seems VERY odd to me. The only amps that were SO ugly I had to pass on them were a pair of WE 350B based movie-theatre amps from the early 50's that I could have had for a couple of grand about ten years ago. They were REALLY utilitarian and kinda rusty too and were just a LITTLE out of my price range at the time as well. Plus, they didn't blow me away sound-wise either. I had such high hopes for them and when I hooked them up I liked them, but they didn't make my jaw drop.

I think you should buy the MC-30s if you can--I've loved them for a long, long time and can't say enough good things about them. But if they were REALLY ugly I'd love them just as much!

[dubai2000]

Allan,

of course looks are usually a minor point for me too, but I suppose I wasn't really prepared for their actual looks by having seen them on photos only. Had they sounded like crap (which they decidedly didn't!) I would pass them without any hesitation. But like that, another 'quality' is added to the music.

BTW: it's the first time I've reacted to an amp's appearance that strongly. It must be their proportion, because the 60s (standing on the same shelf) didn't leave such a strong visual impression. When it comes to buying, well, this pair was already sold, besides: unfortunately I don't have a printing press in the cellar...

Wolfram