Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
saebel

Finally hit a wall - can't decide between CDT 5650 C II and CDT 5800 C II

Recommended Posts

Up until recently, my home theater system has been a rag-tag group of adventurers thrown together with whatever came my way when I could afford it.

 

However, I got a new job, bought a house, and for the first time can really dive deep into a fully developed home theater system without worrying about pissing off the landlord. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you want to skip the back story and get to the question, skip to THE QUESTION at the end...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let me tell you the story.  No, too long, let me sum up:

1. Disc player: Upgraded from Panasonic DMP BDT310 to Sony 4K UBP-X800M2.  A subtle but noticeable improvement in a system that had no other 4K gear.

2. Upgraded from a Sony STR DG800 receiver to a Denon AVR X8500H.  Don't get me wrong, the Sony was fine for what it was, but damn that Denon is smoken.  I have a 7.1 speaker system, and the sound quality improvement with just that piece was noticeable.  Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse broke it in, and, just. absolutely. mind-blowingly. amazing.

3. Upgraded my Panaview Greywolf 106" manual pull-down textured grey screen to an Elunevision Reference Studio 4K Tab-Tensioned Motorized In-Ceiling Recessed 135" screen.  I freaking love it.  I broke it in watching Avatar in 3D and saw details I never saw before on the old screen or in the movie theater.  (see attached pic of the screen just after we finished installing it)

 

That's as far as I've gotten as I slowly work through my system overhaul as budget allows.  Future improvements (in no particular order):
4. Installing a motorized lift to recess/hide the projector.  Have the lift, currently working on the design to make sure I don't mess up my ceiling.  Not rushing it and am working with a guy who is a license/bonded general contractor who has experience with the sort of thing.

5. Upgrading my Sony VPL-HW50ES 3D projector to a Sony VPL-VW295ES 4K projector.  This will probably be the last thing I do.  The current projector is doing just fine, including playing back 4K disks at 1080p.  It's rather pricey, and I'd rather swap out the speakers.

6. Upgrading the speakers.  I currently really do have a piece-meal system.  There is no consistency in brand or design.  They are all mostly lovely on their own, but I really want to take it to the next level.  So after months of research, I settled on Klipsch because I want to go for the full Dolby Atmos experience with a 7.2.6 system and I want to be sure they are using the same technology/design base.  Based on my spacial limitations, budget, and reviews, this is my plan:
Front Speakers (x2): RP-8000F
Center Channel (x1): RP-504C
Side Surrounds (x2): RP-502S
Rear Surrounds (x2): RP-640D
Subwoofers (x2): SPL-120

In-Ceiling Speakers (x6): CDT 5800 C II (or CDT 5650 C II?)

 

Currently just about everything is out of stock and on back order, so I have time to decide.   But I *really* like to plan things out, wait for sales, do research etc.


Cable wise:
I've already bought the HDMI cables I need, and they seem to be working just fine.
For the current subwoofer, I bought an LC-1 subwoofer cable from Blue Jeans cable and plan to buy a second one when I get the new subwoofers.

The speaker wire I am using is all the same: E326425 (UL) Type CL2 14 AWG stranded with black outer casing and red/white inner casing.  Each wire is made up of around 120 thin strands (probably 35 AWG?).  I bought the wire over ten years ago, so I have no recollection of who the maker is.  I am considering swapping it all out with Monoprice Nimbus Series 14AWG 2-Conductor CMP-Rated Speaker Wire.  I don't have enough of the older stuff to run the lines I need with the new ceiling speakers and I've heard good things about the Monoprice cable.  So I'd rather have consistency with all the wiring being the same cable type and from the same vendor.  (Is that a bad thing?  [that's a question, but not *the* question])


Budget is definitely a consideration.  I don't have any spacial constraints.  I've attached a floor plan if folks want to see what I have in mind.


My house was built in 1911, btw, so it has a lot of character, and also limitations (which I won't go into now, but explains why I have to go with RP-640Ds for the rears instead of standard bookshelf).

 

Btw, my personal background is as an occasional fillmmaker, part-time DJ who also does audio-mixes for dance performances, and does my own audio editing, music recordings, etc.  I don't consider myself to be a true audiophile.  But I am very picky about sound quality and mixes and audio quality.  So maybe?  Perhaps this new system is my final journey from which I shall ne'er return to the land of normal audacity.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE QUESTION

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did you skip the backstory or read it all?

 

That's also not *the* question.  This is:

Is there any significant difference between the CDT 5800 C II and the CDT 5650 C II to justify spending the extra money on the 5800s considering the rest of my planned system?

 

While I feel confident about all my other choices, I am not confident about my initial choice of going with CDT 5800 C II for the ceilings.  I've seen lots of positive reviews for the 5650s and very few "official" reviews of the 5800s - just anecdotal reviews from folks on sites like this one.  I stumbled across Crutchfield's sound comparison tool, which was very cool.  But even with my best headphones (beyerdynamic DT 1770 Pro), the differences in quality were nearly indistinguishable.  Most of the time the various audio clips sounded identical. There were occasions were I thought I heard differences.  Sometimes I liked the 5650 and sometimes the 5800s.  So either their tool is flawed (it's not clear to me how they arrived at providing the audio clips) or the differences between the two really are just that subtle.  And if I can barely tell the difference on those headphones, I highly doubt I'll be able to tell the difference in the actual room.

 

That said, I can see how the frequencies and output of the other speakers may justify the 5800s because they will be closer in spec to the rest of the system, but I don't know if that's actually true.

I want Dolby Atmos.  I love the idea of watching a helicopter come straight at you and hearing/feeling it fly over your head and then behind you.  But if the actual differences between the two speakers are essentially negligible all other factors remaining the same, then it makes more sense to save some money and go with the 5650s.

 

I've never gone this deep before.  And I've learned tons in the last couple of months as I have been researching.  But I've just gotten to the point where it's time to ask those who have traveled this road before me.

Feedback, suggestions, information, criticism is very much welcome and appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

saebel

Floor Plan.jpg

20200605_194119_25p.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just upgraded from a 6.5" ceiling to 8" Klipsch Pro-180 rpc.  I can tell you I can hear and feel the differences.  It also shows up in measurements too.  If you're not in a hurry, I do see 5800 come up on sale from various vendors and even from people selling them privately.  I was able to get my pro-180 for $400 Canadian each!  So I think there are rooms for negotiation.  I'd say go for the 8" and don't look back especially given the size of your room.

 

BTW, why RP-640D?  Those 'thin' speakers likely won't sound as good as say the 5800 in wall or another pair of RP-502s IMO.  They do look nice tho.


I'd also say to not set your subwoofer placement in stone, do some subwoofer crawl and see if there are more optimal positions.

 

Here is my just updated theatre, much smaller than yours, I also have RP-502s.  

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Univek said:

BTW, why RP-640D?  Those 'thin' speakers likely won't sound as good as say the 5800 in wall or another pair of RP-502s IMO.  They do look nice tho.


I'd also say to not set your subwoofer placement in stone, do some subwoofer crawl and see if there are more optimal positions.

 

Thanks for the feedback!


Re: the RP-640D:  I have a very unusual situation with the rear space positions:  Built in book shelves and a pocket door that goes up vertical into the ceiling.  There is a little bit of shelf space above the book shelves which is where I currently have my rear channels.  However, the space is limited.  It's about 6" deep, 18" high, and 36" wide.  And although it looks as though there is a wall to have a built in or to mount speakers, that blueish rectangle is maybe 1/4" plywood or drywall on the other side of which is a room.  Mounting or drilling anything through it would totally mess up the aesthetics and I shudder at the thought of what would be required to repair it if I damaged it and change my mind later or needed to sell the house.  I originally looked at the Bookshelf lines, but they are all too big.  Even the RP-400Ms would jut out over the edge too precariously for my taste.  I can't use the RP-500SA, because they are too deep, top heavy, and I can't mount them to the wall.

 

I hadn't even considered the 502s, because I just assumed they would be too big.  I took a second look.  Due to their polygonal design, the majority of the weight would be on the main shelf.  So not quite so precarious as a bookshelf.  Only a little bit of the narrow center would jut out about 1.5 to 2".  Still not great.  Then I had a look at the 402s.  Those would jut out maybe .5 to 1".  That's actually not too bad.  And if the sound quality on the 402s is superior to the RP-640D, they might be the better way to go.  That said, the RP-640Ds would fit absolutely perfectly and have a clean look.  So if the sound quality of the RP-640Ds is superior to the 402s, then that'd be the way to go.

 

In comparing the specs between the two, what I find interesting about the RP-640D is the use of the quad radiators to complement the two 3.5" woofers.  The frequency range is much broader than both the 402s and the 502s.  The width being 28.5" inches means that the sound will get fairly well distributed, the low bass frequencies should be nice and smooth despite the lack of speaker cone depth.  It's not using the dispersion technology of the 502s/402s, but based on the location and intended use, I'm not sure how helpful dispersion speakers would be in that part of the room.  They essentially both the use the same tweeter, so I think that's a wash when it comes to comparing them.

 

Re: sub-woofers placement:  Agreed.  I've read up a lot about how there can be issues with multiple sub-woofers if they are placed in symmetry.  I'm getting two 10' LC-1 cables so that I've got some flexibility in placement.

View of rear from front.jpg

BackShelf.jpg

Edited by saebel
Spelling and grammar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, thanks for the explanation.  I love the hidden room in the back. : )

 

Have you considered mounting/placing the rear surround channels lower at ear level in place of one of the shelves?  May fit better with the recommended ear level for surround speakers in ATMOS spec.

 

An additional suggestion I have, and this was one lesson I learned is to make sure you have a conduit for your HDMI cable (if you were to run it in ceiling/wall).  This way, as technology change, you can easily replace them. : )

 

Lovely room and I'm sure you'd enjoy the process of building it and even more once its complete!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just from the few photos, your new home looks to have huge character!  Great woodwork.  Enjoy.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Univek said:

Ah, thanks for the explanation.  I love the hidden room in the back. : )

 

Have you considered mounting/placing the rear surround channels lower at ear level in place of one of the shelves?  May fit better with the recommended ear level for surround speakers in ATMOS spec.

 

An additional suggestion I have, and this was one lesson I learned is to make sure you have a conduit for your HDMI cable (if you were to run it in ceiling/wall).  This way, as technology change, you can easily replace them. : )

 

Lovely room and I'm sure you'd enjoy the process of building it and even more once its complete!

I'll have to double check the ATMOS specs, but I dimly recall reading that the rears should be about one to two feet above ear level, but I might be getting my surround systems confused!  Too much data (lol).  But yeah, if that's the recommended spec, that's a good option.  And it will be easier to hide the speaker wire.  It would also work for the RP-640Ds.  They'll fit quite nicely.  I'd just have to move some books/stuff around.

 

Good note on the conduit.  That's going to be super challenging as it is.  That said, the "pillars" to either side of the pocket door are actually hollow because they have counter weights to keep the door in place wherever you leave it.  I may be able to run conduit from the attic, through the pillars, into the crawlspace, then along the bottom and up into either the floor or from the side wall.  I'm super nervous about messing up the wall where the entertainment center is.  There is a giant window there and probably fire blocks, so going from above on that side is probably a nightmare.  Waiting to hear back from my electrician who rewired the place for me and is already familiar with the challenges.

Edited by saebel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, saebel said:

I'll have to double check the ATMOS specs, but I dimly recall reading that the rears should be about one to two feet above ear level, but I might be getting my surround systems confused!  Too much data (lol).  But yeah, if that's the recommended spec, that's a good option.  And it will be easier to hide the speaker wire.  It would also work for the RP-640Ds.  They'll fit quite nicely.  I'd just have to move some books/stuff around.

 

Here is the Dolby 7.1.6 overhead guide: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/speaker-setup-guides/7.1.6-overhead-speaker-setup-guide.html

 

More detailed placement description are in this one: https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf

 

The good thing is you don't have to hard mount it so have the flexibility.  Even the seating as well, once you have the speakers, you may find moving a few inch front or back may drastically change your nulls or peak.  : ) lots of 'fun'.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/17/2020 at 7:04 AM, Robert Gervais said:

I have four of the 5800's in my ceiling for the 7.2.4 and love them.

What kind of connectors did you use to connect the speaker wire to the speakers?  I can't tell from the pics on the Klipsch website whether it uses a banana plug or a spring-loaded catch requiring the smaller pin type.

 

Also, did you end up buying any of the mounting accessories (the installation kit or fire rated enclosure)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, saebel said:

What kind of connectors did you use to connect the speaker wire to the speakers?  I can't tell from the pics on the Klipsch website whether it uses a banana plug or a spring-loaded catch requiring the smaller pin type.

 

Also, did you end up buying any of the mounting accessories (the installation kit or fire rated enclosure)?

I believe they are spring loaded but @Robert Gervais can confirm.

 

The new construction mounting kit is where you don’t have drywall up.  It is able to mount onto the studs vs without it, you cut a hole in the drywall and the speaker clip onto the drywall.  I’d say if your drywall will be removed then by all means get the mounting kit.  I can’t speak to the fire rated enclosure tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Univek said:

The new construction mounting kit is where you don’t have drywall up.  It is able to mount onto the studs vs without it, you cut a hole in the drywall and the speaker clip onto the drywall.  I’d say if your drywall will be removed then by all means get the mounting kit.  I can’t speak to the fire rated enclosure tho.

 

Not going to be removing the drywall, just going to be cutting holes in existing lathe and plaster.  Finally found the detailed info I needed on the bracket and it looks like I won't need it?  Although it's kind of confusing because the enclosure seems to be designed to match with it.  I think the enclosure is probably a good thing, but it looks like it was designed to be used with the bracket.

 

I'll reach out to the engineers.  I'm sure they'll have more info on it.

 

Took the plunge and bought 6 5800s, open box from Acoustic Sound Design via Ebay at over 50% off normal retail.  Wasn't even looking for it, was searching for the enclosures.  I know open box might be risky, but for 50% off, I'll take my chances.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, saebel said:

Took the plunge and bought 6 5800s, open box from Acoustic Sound Design via Ebay at over 50% off normal retail.  Wasn't even looking for it, was searching for the enclosures.  I know open box might be risky, but for 50% off, I'll take my chances.

 

Awesome!  AcousticSoundDesign has fantastic reviews (100% over last year and total of 11589 reviews?!). I'd think if u have issues, they will respond.  

 

I'm sure you'd enjoy the 8" over 6.5". : ) At least you won't have the bug that get you to think I should have gone bigger. lol

 

All the best! And make sure to send photos along the way of the progress!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CDT 5800 C ii speakers arrived!  They are in perfect condition.  Can't believe it.  Although, I still have to test them out.  And holy cow are they big!

 

Just purchased 500' of Monoprice Nimbus 14AWG x4 conductor speaker wire, Mediabridge banana plugs, clear heat shrink tubing, cable pants, and tech flex.

 

These are my first official Klipsch speakers.  I'm all in now.  Just waiting for the next pay period and the 4th of July sales to start working on the floor speakers.
Front Speakers (x2): RP-8000F
Center Channel (x1): RP-504C
Side Surrounds (x2): RP-502S
Rear Surrounds (x2): RP-640D
Subwoofers (x2): SPL-120

Klipsch Single.jpg

Klipsch Six.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks AWESOME!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/16/2020 at 4:31 AM, saebel said:

 

That's also not *the* question.  This is:

Is there any significant difference between the CDT 5800 C II and the CDT 5650 C II to justify spending the extra money on the 5800s considering the rest of my planned system?

 

 

TLDR.  5650's are fine for atmos and saves a few bucks.  However, hardly anybody buys them because of the perceived additional bass and higher output.  However, it just really doesn't matter all that much.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/19/2020 at 7:17 AM, saebel said:

 

Not going to be removing the drywall, just going to be cutting holes in existing lathe and plaster.  Finally found the detailed info I needed on the bracket and it looks like I won't need it?  Although it's kind of confusing because the enclosure seems to be designed to match with it.  I think the enclosure is probably a good thing, but it looks like it was designed to be used with the bracket.

 

For retrofitting you don't need either.  For new construction the bracket is nice because the drywll guys can cut a perfect hole out with a router in about 2 seconds flat, otherwise you have to make a big fat mess with a drywall saw.  The metal boxes aren't typically ever necessary in a home, they are made for appeasing fire code requirements in false ceilings on commercial buildings.  The speakers are made to be in a free-air environment, you're not going to improve the bass by installing a metal box like most people believe.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just following up for those who are curious.  New system is finally installed and had the first screening of a movie with Dolby Atmos last night.

System is a 7.2.6.  Screen Spiderman: Into the Spiderverse.

 

Absolutely stunning.  And I don't even have all the speakers yet.  Still need to upgrade the sides, rears, and one of the subs.

 

Those ceiling speakers are amazing.  No regrets.

 

Added a few pics from the installation / testing process.  Everything is nice and cleaned up now.

image004.jpg

image002.jpg

image001.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have all Klipsch, and I have (6) CDT-5800-C's in my ceiling and love them, they work beyond what I was expecting!  The tilting woofer and the direction horn are awesome for getting the sound where you want it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...